Starter strangeness

[pluton]

Anyone here had this happen?
1997 4RUNNER, 3.4 Engine, 4wd/MTM. 210K miles.
What happens:
Key in IGN sw, turn key to start position, the starter engages and turns the the engine normally...for about 1 second, then starter stops turning while key is still held in start position. It's like the starter just "stops running".
Second try, seconds later: starter engages/turns normally, engine starts, starts and runs fine for the rest of the day.
Starter may do it again tomorrow, the first time it's started... but is always fine for the rest of the day.
If your 4Runner starting system did this, what fixed it?
Thanks in advance for any intel you may have.

 

[2TH4IST]

That is a odd issue. Have you replaced the starter? Is it original? I'm guessing something is wrong with the solenoid contacts internally.

 

[pluton]

That is a odd issue. Have you replaced the starter? Is it original? I'm guessing something is wrong with the solenoid contacts internally.

It's most likely the original starter; it hasn't been changed since I've owned it (12 years.)

 

[JohnMc]

Only issue I've had with mine was the normal contacts-going-bad issue. Where it would click, but not crank. Click it a few times and it would crank. Fixed by replacing the contacts instead of the whole starter.

Not sure what's happening on yours though, certainly sounds unrelated to the common contacts thing.

Could be:
- flaky ignition switch
- flaky trans neutral switch
- loose/poor wiring at the starter (both the wire from ign switch and the battery cable)
- loose/poor battery terminal (if other things dim out)
- issues with the starter itself

Hold up, I was going to say something aboutshifting it from park to neutral and back, then noticed you said MTM (manual transmission?).

There is a switch that is triggered by the clutch pedal when the pedal is all the way down. Over time this wears and will no longer open unless you're mashing the pedal down. You can adjust it upward. Might be an issue? I did have to adjust mine at around 200K miles.

If the clutch pedal switch is causing issues, they should go away if you hit that clutch start cancel button.

 

[nissanh]

On the first crank, when it stops turning, do you hear the starter contact disengaging? It might also be the starter relay located inside the fuse box next to the battery. You can open the relay and clean the contacts with a fine grit sand paper. But you will need a new relay (stay with OEM) there is 25% off sale going on all toyota oem parts. Checkout toyota of Decatur in AL parts department online.

You can have a testlight connected to the load side (that goes towards the starter) of the relay and check whether it turns off in the first start and then stater stops turning.

 

[3bears]

Agree with several things posted above, its either the contacts or the relay.

side note...a while back I was in a wrecking yard..i pulled all the relays from wreck, they did not charge me for those, they along with fuses are in m rear cubby hole....so next time your in a wrecking yard, pull relays

 

[phattyduck]

Anyone here had this happen?
1997 4RUNNER, 3.4 Engine, 4wd/MTM. 210K miles.
What happens:
Key in IGN sw, turn key to start position, the starter engages and turns the the engine normally...for about 1 second, then starter stops turning while key is still held in start position. It's like the starter just "stops running".
Second try, seconds later: starter engages/turns normally, engine starts, starts and runs fine for the rest of the day.
Starter may do it again tomorrow, the first time it's started... but is always fine for the rest of the day.
If your 4Runner starting system did this, what fixed it?
Thanks in advance for any intel you may have.

It isn't obvious from the outside of the starter, but there are two solenoid coils in the starter - the pull-in an the hold coils. Both are energized when you first apply power to the starter, then when the motor receives power, the pull-in coil is de-energized.

I have never heard of this issue before (if it is an internal starter issue), but it is theoretically possible that something is going wrong there.

It could also be an issue with the contacts/plunger, just like normal. Get a rebuild kit or a rebuilt Denso and try fixing the starter first. If the issue persists, there may be an issue with the truck wiring or something...

-Charlie

 

[pluton]

Thanks all for the ideas, I think all the possibilities have been mentioned. I'll be checking the battery/terminals and the clutch-start-neutral switch this morning and go from there. I'll post what happens in the end.
Related question: If the starter is to be replaced, how valuable is it to get the 1.8kW "cold weather spec" starter over the cheaper 1.4kW "normal" unit? I live in a warm pace, but may travel to a cold place.

 

[2TH4IST]

I'd stick with the 1.8kw starter.

 

[pluton]

I'd stick with the 1.8kw starter.

It's funny: Rockauto lists the 1.4kW "for manual trans" and the 1.8kW "for auto trans". I've never heard of a manual/auto distinction for the 2 starters before. I ordered a Denso 1.8kW.

 

[nissanh]

Manual has no additional load as the torque converter. I think either should work.

 

[phattyduck]

Manual has no additional load as the torque converter. I think either should work.

No, but you can push-start a manual, so the smaller starter is more reasonable to use... (unless you are starting it on a hill with clutch cancel engaged, then the extra 400 watts is probably worth it!)

-Charlie

 

[brillo_76]

It's funny: Rockauto lists the 1.4kW "for manual trans" and the 1.8kW "for auto trans". I've never heard of a manual/auto distinction for the 2 starters before. I ordered a Denso 1.8kW.

Yes they sure do and I still put a 1.8KW in...

 

[brillo_76]

Oh.. I had a starter issue bizzare one time. Your particular instance like all other members mentioned stated after engagement for a second just quits really does sound like internal starter issues..

In my instance, the starter just wouldn't hit in start section.. Hold for a few seconds try a few times then it would hit.. Oh the starter probably warn out contacts internals etc. So i get the remain replacement. Figured all is good with the world... A day or 2 after replacement install the same issue. Random misses trying to start... Well it the starter as obviously unless the remain denso was junk ...

So after checking things over, I said wait a min, this rig has 220K plus on it, I wonder if the ignition switch itself is any good. Luckily, I had a spare ignition switch in the parts mobile . So i swapped it out. It hasn't missed ever again. The contacts on my ignition switch were warn just enough that it was hit and miss on the key wire.

Ever since this instance, I always check my key wire on the starter to make sure the 12volt is there when the key is in the start position. If its not there or
intermittent in my instance. Your issue my not be the starter.

This doesn't sound like that it the issue in this instance at all. However, it always good to verify the 12 volts on the key hits like 10 times or so on that solenoid feed wire going to the starter hits every time.. Or you could replace a starter that is fine and still have an issue. So its worth mentioning on this thread of all us checks out perfect. Verify your stater wire coming from the key ..

 

[phattyduck]

Ever since this instance, I always check my key wire on the starter to make sure the 12volt is there when the key is in the start position. If its not there or
intermittent in my instance. Your issue my not be the starter.

This doesn't sound like that it the issue in this instance at all. However, it always good to verify the 12 volts on the key hits like 10 times or so on that solenoid feed wire going to the starter hits every time.. Or you could replace a starter that is fine and still have an issue. So its worth mentioning on this thread of all us checks out perfect. Verify your stater wire coming from the key ..

Denso starters are pretty sensitive to getting sufficient voltage/current on the trigger wire connection. Earlier (like, 80's) Toyotas often didn't have a starter relay or it was wired in series with the key switch, so plenty of current gets drawn through the key switch STA connection... wearing it out. The fix on those rigs (or in my case, '87-'91 Camry) is to use the original 12V signal to trigger a relay to power the starter solenoid connection directly from the battery...

The 3rd gens have a correctly wired starter relay, so that shouldn't be as much of an issue. Still a good thing to check if you have the tools (12V at the solenoid connection).

-Charlie

 

[brillo_76]

Denso starters are pretty sensitive to getting sufficient voltage/current on the trigger wire connection. Earlier (like, 80's) Toyotas often didn't have a starter relay or it was wired in series with the key switch, so plenty of current gets drawn through the key switch STA connection... wearing it out. The fix on those rigs (or in my case, '87-'91 Camry) is to use the original 12V signal to trigger a relay to power the starter solenoid connection directly from the battery...

The 3rd gens have a correctly wired starter relay, so that shouldn't be as much of an issue. Still a good thing to check if you have the tools (12V at the solenoid connection).

-Charlie

One of the odd things I seen Charlie the contact in the ignition start contact literately was warn out. I really don't think it was from current it didn't look burnt contact at all. I just warn down and gapped... Since I bought a stater for nothing... I always just get the digital meter out and verify the key wire before i look at the starter because of it.

 

[pluton]

Brillo and Phattyduck---thanks for the add'l intel. I'll add the switch and downwire voltage to the list of suspects.

 

[St Runner]

I would also check the switch on the clutch pedal. Does it do the same when clutch cancel switch is used as opposed to depressing the clutch to start? when i start my tacoma I sometimes lose the connection because my foot slightly raises up and there is not a lot of play on the switch. I recently replaced the starter in my Tacoma (3.4 manual) from a 1.4 to a 1.8, spins faster and starts easier

 

[brillo_76]

I would also check the switch on the clutch pedal. Does it do the same when clutch cancel switch is used as opposed to depressing the clutch to start? when i start my tacoma I sometimes lose the connection because my foot slightly raises up and there is not a lot of play on the switch. I recently replaced the starter in my Tacoma (3.4 manual) from a 1.4 to a 1.8, spins faster and starts easier

Excellent thought if someone is working on a manual instead of an automatic..

 

[JohnMc]

OP has a manual. I mentioned that clutch switch on the 1st page too, when mine got a little worn, it wasn't clear what the issue was when the starter wouldn't work, or would stop cranking. Finally noticed it was doing that when I wasn't MASHING the pedal into the carpet. Easy to adjust it though.