Starts then stalls seconds later

[kentaaronj]

Hello, I have been reading through the forum extensively since last night - it has been very helpful but I needed to make my own account for further guidance. Thank you all for your knowledge and for taking time to read this post.

I have a 4th gen 2003 4.0L limited 2WD that I bought a few months ago with ~130k miles. Have had no problems with it. I live in Florida so all roads are flat. I had roughly 1/8th of a tank of gas. Most recent oil change did not have a K&M filter.

I changed the front brake pads maybe two weeks ago and started noticing the engine light blinking two-three times when starting the car that would stop once the car was running. The car never struggled to turn over or hesitated when this light would blink so I thought it was benign or that I had never noticed it. It wasn't throwing a code. I also think this light and the brake pad change was only a correlation.

Last night, I was making a quick trip to the store. I was going about 40mph about 3 minutes from my house when I lost power to the engine. All of the lights and electronics were functioning normally so I assumed I had bumped the car into neutral somehow. I was still in drive so I pressed the gas, but the RPMs did not increase. RPMs were actually at 0. I slid into neutral and back into drive and I still had 0RPMs. I was coasting at that point and coasted into a neighborhood and realized I had lost power steering as well. Multiple lights came on the dash including the engine symbol, traction lights, check engine, and battery light. I do not remember ABS light coming on. Once I parked I tried to restart the car. It would start but die within 1-2 seconds with a smooth stall. After 2-3 tries of this, it would not turn over. All of the lights were still on the dash but all electronics (headlights, cabin lights, radio, etc) were working fine. I was able to pull three codes: P0101, P0102, and P0113.

On the forums, I read mass airflow sensor (MAF) may need to be cleaned so I had a buddy pick me up and I got a can of MAF cleaner. Took out MAF and carefully sprayed it and reinstalled. No change to the engine but the MAF did look better visually. Took it out a second time and sprayed again but let it dry a few extra minutes. Truck was able to turn over again (good sign?) but only lasted maybe 10 seconds. Then it went back to not turning over. Had same buddy pull me home (3min away without power steering.)

Once home, I gave it another go and the truck turned over and idled normally (maybe a little higher) for a minute or two then stalled again. After that it stopped turning over like before. Seemed at this point I could get the engine to idle once the engine cooled off or pressure somewhere decreased, but would stop turning over once it heated up or pressure built up.

Today I tried to turn it over and it was just clicking - dead. Figured I left a light on last night so I had a roommate jump me. It turned over, but like last night, only lasted a few minutes and stalled, then would turn over and stall after 1-2 seconds, then would not turn back over at all. I got back on the forms and read about throttle body (TB) build up, pressure control valve (PCV) not working, and engine control module (ECM) needing to be reset.

This afternoon I sprayed the MAF a third time and let it dry for at least 30min, took off the TB and sprayed it clean with TB cleaner- there was some buildup. I replaced the engine bay air filter - there was some dirt and a few leaves. I replaced the PVC and hose - PCV looked rough but I still heard the ball moving inside and the hose was in normal condition visually. I also used a paperclip to reset the ECM through the OBD2 plug with the 30min wait - had the dash lights blinking and all. Considering my fuel gauge was possibly messed up and I was actually just on an empty tank, I added half a gallon of fuel.

After all of these, and having the truck hooked to jumper cables, I turned the key and it turned over, but stalled in a minute or so, then would turn over and stall after 1-2 seconds, then not turn over anymore - per the usual pattern since last night. I am not able to pull any codes from it right now and am not able to move it from my driveway.

I am stumped and not sure how to move forward. Perhaps a fuse is shorted somewhere? Perhaps the MAF needs to be replaced instead of just cleaned? I would appreciate any guidance

Thank you all for your prior contributions to the forums!

 

[SurferUK]

At first I was thinking fuel pump but then you mentioned it didn't turn over. I'd start by checking the simple stuff like battery connections, earth/ground points etc before throwing any money at it.

As there's no correlation between the fault codes and it not even cranking it's more likely in my mind to be something simple.


Edit: Although I'm sure I remember reading on here someone had similar problems and they just fitted a new throttle body. But I don't think that would cause a no crank.

 

[kentaaronj]

SurferUK, thank you for the reply.

To clarify, throughout the day today, if I let the truck sit for at least an hour, when I try to turn it over it will crank, then idle rough and shut off after about a minute. Then if I try to turn it over immediately after it will crank and shut off after 1-2 seconds. It will last for 1-2 seconds for 4-5 cycles then it won’t turn over again.

If I let it sit for another hour I can get it to turn back over.

If I press the accelerator when it does turn over, or while it’s trying to turn over, there is no significant change.

Hope this helps or clarifies.

I will check grounds and begin considering fuel pump.

 

[kentaaronj]

Update:

I looked at the fuel pump fuses and relays and they all looked good. I also switched the relays around to test them. No change.

I tried to crank it again, and since it has been sitting for a few hours it turned over, but this time I held the gas peddle down when I did. I got high RPMs doing this, but the truck still stalled within 10-15 seconds.

The truck actually sounds good the first time it turns over after it has sat for a while.

Battery connections look and feel solid and both of the ground connections coming off the battery are still solid.

Not sure if the fuel pump is either not working or is unable to move enough fuel, or if the MAF needs to be replaced, or if the ECM needs to try to be reset again, or if theres another dynamic at play

Update 2:

Read something about diagnosing MAF by unplugging the connector then starting the truck. If it works normal while unplugged then apparently the MAF is the problem. I just tried this and there was no change. Has anyone else heard this?

Also, the light I was seeing blink the past few weeks for the few seconds while the truck was starting was the orange MAINT light. Once the truck was running then this light would go away.

 

[SurferUK]

Update:

I looked at the fuel pump fuses and relays and they all looked good. I also switched the relays around to test them. No change.

I tried to crank it again, and since it has been sitting for a few hours it turned over, but this time I held the gas peddle down when I did. I got high RPMs doing this, but the truck still stalled within 10-15 seconds.

The truck actually sounds good the first time it turns over after it has sat for a while.

Battery connections look and feel solid and both of the ground connections coming off the battery are still solid.

Not sure if the fuel pump is either not working or is unable to move enough fuel, or if the MAF needs to be replaced, or if the ECM needs to try to be reset again, or if theres another dynamic at play

Update 2:

Read something about diagnosing MAF by unplugging the connector then starting the truck. If it works normal while unplugged then apparently the MAF is the problem. I just tried this and there was no change. Has anyone else heard this?

Also, the light I was seeing blink the past few weeks for the few seconds while the truck was starting was the orange MAINT light. Once the truck was running then this light would go away.

Can you try disconnecting the battery for an hour or so?

Also you will need to physically check the ground contact - let me give you an example of how looks can decieve! My Dad's motorhome has a solar setup that had stopped indicating charging. I am an electrician so I took a look, although DC isn't my thing. Somehow there was 13V at the solar controller when testing to a seat rail, but not to the ground terminal right next to the positive terminal! Long story short, they had used a lug that was too big, so not enough metal was making contact with the bolt head. It looked fine from the outside, and as it was an internal earth there was no corrosion at all. I cut off the 16mm lug, put a 10mm lug on, and everything was fine.

It might be worth running it into Toyota as they will be able to read stuff like the fuel pressure and the actual signal voltages live data rather than just post-problem codes.

Then once you have more of an idea what's going on, fix it yourself or run it into a cheaper independent mechanic.

 

[AuSeeker]

The "Maint" light is just to tell you it's time to change the oil, nothing more than that, it blinks a couple of times at startup at around 3000 miles after your last reset of the light, i.e, your last oil change, then at 5000 miles it will remain solidly lit until it is reset.

I would suggest not just looking and wiggling at all your battery connections but instead loosening them then and clean them before reconnecting them, especially all the ground connections, also I would have the battery "Load Tested", you would be surprised how a battery going bad can cause all kind of weird things to happen and drive you crazy trying figure out what is causing the problems.

Have you even checked the voltage of the battery?

 

[Seymore Butts]

If it won't turn over, I would first suspect the battery and alternator. Check the battery voltage after the vehicle stalls out. After jump starting and while it's running, check the voltage again to see if your alternator is providing the proper charging voltage range of 13.2 to 14.2

 

[kentaaronj]

I disconnected the battery for over an hour and cleaned the terminals and connectors with a wire brush with no change - still turning over then stalling in 1-2 seconds. I tested it and the battery is still at 12V under load.

Appreciate the information for the MAINT light and the ground contacts!

 

[kentaaronj]

SOLVED

Well, the truck is running right now so I’ll know if it’s actually fixed or not in the next week I assume.

It was apparently out of fuel although the fuel gauge showed a little under an 8th of a tank and the electronic gauge showed a range of about 42 miles left. The fuel light was not on.

I added about 0.5gal of fuel yesterday but that was apparently not enough. I added another 0.5gal because I was out of ideas and there may be some water… and it started right up.

So I think A) gauges are bad and/or float is off so now I can't let fuel go below 1/4 or 1/8 tank

B) fuel pump is going bad and is intermittently going in and out, so the same thing may happen again soon

C) there is some water in the tank and the bit of fuel I added got through, so there's about 2 gal of water in the tank according to my gauges. I did add a container of HEET

Next time I get close to 1/8th of a tank on the gauges I may drive around the neighborhood with the fuel tank for the lawnmower to see if it shuts off around 42 miles on the range or not.

Thank you for all of your suggestions and ideas!