Stealership just quoted me $7,000 for headgasket on 2004

[chrisbagnell]

I dropped off my 2004 4Runner to the dealership this morning to get tested for a headgasket issue. Told them I have been getting the oil tested and it shows coolant in it but no other signs of any issues (smoke, loss of power, etc). They seemed skeptical of my information and told me they would test the cylinders.

Just got off the phone with them and the guy told me cylinder 4 is leaking and its a very expensive job. They would have to pull the motor out of the vehicle... and used a lot of terms to make it sound sophisticated "we will have to take it down to the heads which is EXTREMELY difficult etc:laugh:"... Also told me I am at extreme risk driving it because of how bad it is...

hmmmm I don't buy it. I was expecting around $2-4k total, did not expect them to say the engine needs to come out. At that price its cheaper to source a used engine. I have never seen a headgasket repair on a 4Runner that requires the engine to come out....

Would be nice to hear the forums opinions/thoughts.
Located in Langhorne, PA

 

[MikeinNH67]

That's comical and would be the last time I went to that dealer.

 

[patkelly4370]

"Your vehicle warranty is about to expire"

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[zguy1]

I'm doing the head gasket on my 08 as I type. $7000 is ridiculous but I will say that $2000 is not realistic for anyone who does this for a living. This is a big job.

I asked around at several dealerships before taking this on myself and they were a bit hesitant to give me an estimate. They roughly stated that the cost would be upwards of $3500. Keep in mind that is only replacing the head gasket and re-sealing the motor.

What about any cylinder head work?
Do you want them to check the heads or clean and reinstall with new head gaskets?
If they check the heads and find leaks, are you going to decide to do a valve job?

I honestly don't know if I can blame the dealership for a vague estimate especially if the history of car is unknown and has higher miles. With cost aside, several of the mechanics really thought going with a used or new short block made more sense especially if you want to keep the truck.

 

[aemravan]

Just because it’s possible to pull heads with the motor still in doesn’t mean that’s the easy way to do it. If I had the resources (lift, shop space, etc) I would be pulling the motor for anything more than a valve cover job.

There’s a lot that can go wrong and make it for a shity job working in the engine bay so I don’t question that one bit. The $7k seems steep but I’m curious to know what parts they wrote into that estimate. Even at a shop rate they charge that seems to be hefty just for labor.


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[rumfoord]

Had mine done by an independent shop for around $3500 Canadian. Heads machined and all. Just a note mine wasn't discovered until I started getting rough idles on start and blowing white smoke out exhaust. If you aren't experiencing those yet you're probably fine for a little bit. No regret having done and bought me 6 years so far.

 

[Hitmanhink]

How many miles are you at?

 

[chrisbagnell]

I'm doing the head gasket on my 08 as I type. $7000 is ridiculous but I will say that $2000 is not realistic for anyone who does this for a living. This is a big job.

I asked around at several dealerships before taking this on myself and they were a bit hesitant to give me an estimate. They roughly stated that the cost would be upwards of $3500. Keep in mind that is only replacing the head gasket and re-sealing the motor.

What about any cylinder head work?
Do you want them to check the heads or clean and reinstall with new head gaskets?
If they check the heads and find leaks, are you going to decide to do a valve job?

I honestly don't know if I can blame the dealership for a vague estimate especially if the history of car is unknown and has higher miles. With cost aside, several of the mechanics really thought going with a used or new short block made more sense especially if you want to keep the truck.

I will post the estimate below, but thanks for your input. If there are leaks and I need a valve job I will have to re-evaluate it all. I have already been searching for replacement engines and the prices are inflated a bit. How much did yours cost all in and did you need extra work?

Had mine done by an independent shop for around $3500 Canadian. Heads machined and all. Just a note mine wasn't discovered until I started getting rough idles on start and blowing white smoke out exhaust. If you aren't experiencing those yet you're probably fine for a little bit. No regret having done and bought me 6 years so far.

Thanks for the confidence booster! I've parked it for now but still purrs like a kitten

How many miles are you at?

181,000 miles

 

[chrisbagnell]

Here is the estimate. Some of it seems to be just added maintenance. Timing chain makes sense while already in there. Now that I am looking at the image, I believe everything with and * is not needed.
<a href="https://imgur.com/QOSOQQm"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/QOSOQQm.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

 

[zguy1]

I will post the estimate below, but thanks for your input. If there are leaks and I need a valve job I will have to re-evaluate it all. I have already been searching for replacement engines and the prices are inflated a bit. How much did yours cost all in and did you need extra work?


Thanks for the confidence booster! I've parked it for now but still purrs like a kitten



181,000 miles

Here are some more of my thoughts for what it's worth. I didn't finish the job yet but I am currently reassembling.

181,000 miles is pretty low. In my opinion, if your car ran fine, idled well, you probably don't need any cylinder head work.

To date, I have spent $1264 so far. That breaks down to the following:

$560.00 in parts.
- (Gaskets, water pump, thermostat, exhaust manifold studs, FIPG, spark plugs and head studs. All parts are Toyota except for the head studs)

$380.00 in machine shop services
- Pressure check, stud removal and resurfacing)

$79.00 in fluids (Oil, filter and antifreeze)

$200.00 in misc tools

$45.00 in cleaning supplies (Parts cleaner and paper towels)


7 of my valves were leaking but I opted to try and clean them up myself after the machine shop owner suggested I give it a try. We will see how good I did shortly.

I hope that helps...

 

[chrisbagnell]

Thanks for the quick response. I have been thinking over this past weekend, and I have probably driven over 10k miles with this leak with no issues other than slow coolant loss. Ive been driving about 250 miles a week for the past couple of months with no issues whatsoever with the engine so hoping all valves are solid. Thank you for the cost breakdown too.
I'm relived the headgasket leak was finally found so I can move forward with repairs.

Anything else I should think about replacing while its apart? I saw a thread asking this exact question but was wondering if there were things overlooked

 

[zguy1]

Thanks for the quick response. I have been thinking over this past weekend, and I have probably driven over 10k miles with this leak with no issues other than slow coolant loss. Ive been driving about 250 miles a week for the past couple of months with no issues whatsoever with the engine so hoping all valves are solid. Thank you for the cost breakdown too.
I'm relived the headgasket leak was finally found so I can move forward with repairs.

Anything else I should think about replacing while its apart? I saw a thread asking this exact question but was wondering if there were things overlooked

I am no expert but have done most of the repairs and maintenance on my truck to date. Regarding timing components and what to replace if any seems to be a debatable topic. Your quote just lists the timing chain. Not sure why they just chose that. For me, I chose not replace any timing components. I may regret that choice but I guess we will see.

Everything below the water pump on the estimate seems like fluff. Aside from the idler pulleys, all of the those other services can be done at a later time as you are not saving anything on labor by combining them with this repair.

To answer your question, I don't think you are missing anything as far as what to consider replacing.

 

[aemravan]

I am no expert but have done most of the repairs and maintenance on my truck to date. Regarding timing components and what to replace if any seems to be a debatable topic. Your quote just lists the timing chain. Not sure why they just chose that. For me, I chose not replace any timing components. I may regret that choice but I guess we will see.

Everything below the water pump on the estimate seems like fluff. Aside from the idler pulleys, all of the those other services can be done at a later time as you are not saving anything on labor by combining them with this repair.

To answer your question, I don't think you are missing anything as far as what to consider replacing.

I don't know what the timing chain service interval is on these, surely more than timing belts since chains are typically meant to last the life of the vehicle.. however...you are already doing just about all of the work to get the heads off, why not go the very extra little bit and throw in new timing components to be on the safe side? Not to mention that probably means you left the front main seal alone as well?

Replacing a water pump while doing a timing chain job at 181k miles is far from fluff. You'd be silly not to spend the extra $200 for a water pump while everything is already apart. I can't imagine finding a place to do a water pump replacement with parts and labor for $200..

 

[aemravan]

Thanks for the quick response. I have been thinking over this past weekend, and I have probably driven over 10k miles with this leak with no issues other than slow coolant loss. Ive been driving about 250 miles a week for the past couple of months with no issues whatsoever with the engine so hoping all valves are solid. Thank you for the cost breakdown too.
I'm relived the headgasket leak was finally found so I can move forward with repairs.

Anything else I should think about replacing while its apart? I saw a thread asking this exact question but was wondering if there were things overlooked

Are you set on having this place move forward with the repairs? Could be worth asking around other local shops to see what kind of estimate you come back with. Pulling the motor at a proper shop is far from an extensive "difficult" thing to do. It actually makes the rest of the work significantly quicker and easier than doing it in the vehicle.


anyhow, if you are set on getting the work done and the motor does come out of the car what I would recommend in place of the Transmission service, differential service, power steering service and hvac vent service (which are all very straight forward to do if you ever decided and not necessities in my mind, I would have them replace the front and rear main seals on the crankshaft.

Last thing I would want to happen is to spend all the time and money on this repair and come back to a leaking front main, or even worse, rear main seal 20k, 30k miles down the road.

 

[zguy1]

I don't know what the timing chain service interval is on these, surely more than timing belts since chains are typically meant to last the life of the vehicle.. however...you are already doing just about all of the work to get the heads off, why not go the very extra little bit and throw in new timing components to be on the safe side? Not to mention that probably means you left the front main seal alone as well?

Replacing a water pump while doing a timing chain job at 181k miles is far from fluff. You'd be silly not to spend the extra $200 for a water pump while everything is already apart. I can't imagine finding a place to do a water pump replacement with parts and labor for $200..

When I said "below the water pump on the estimate", I was referring to the other misc services. E.g., Transfer case and diff service, transmission service, HVAC vent service and power steering flush. These are the ones I meant by "fluff". That's almost $2k extra on top of the repair to actually fix his truck. Even if decided to get those done at the same dealer, he could always do those later.

I am not against changing the timing chain, I just meant that if you ask 10 people they will tell you ten different things about what timing components to replace.

 

[aemravan]

When I said "below the water pump on the estimate", I was referring to the other misc services. E.g., Transfer case and diff service, transmission service, HVAC vent service and power steering flush. These are the ones I meant by "fluff". That's almost $2k extra on top of the repair to actually fix his truck. Even if decided to get those done at the same dealer, he could always do those later.

I am not against changing the timing chain, I just meant that if you ask 10 people they will tell you ten different things about what timing components to replace.

ah , sorry, I missed that part. I do agree on the extra stuff definitely being fluff. "diff service" as in drain and fill with $30 of fluid? Definitely overpriced lol. I don't know what the hvac service would even entail... filter change? blow out some leaves? lol

 

[MikeinNH67]

That's quite the added pile of stuff they stuck in there for you wanting the head gasket fixed. Why not shampoo the carpet at the same time?

 

[chrisbagnell]

Are you set on having this place move forward with the repairs? Could be worth asking around other local shops to see what kind of estimate you come back with. Pulling the motor at a proper shop is far from an extensive "difficult" thing to do. It actually makes the rest of the work significantly quicker and easier than doing it in the vehicle.


anyhow, if you are set on getting the work done and the motor does come out of the car what I would recommend in place of the Transmission service, differential service, power steering service and hvac vent service (which are all very straight forward to do if you ever decided and not necessities in my mind, I would have them replace the front and rear main seals on the crankshaft.

Last thing I would want to happen is to spend all the time and money on this repair and come back to a leaking front main, or even worse, rear main seal 20k, 30k miles down the road.

Just watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGq72QGa-Bk and they managed to do it without pulling engine but I can now see why the Toyota Techs would rather pull the engine to work on it.

Funny Enough I have actually been recommended a few shops by family and friends that are known to be able to do headgasket work, and they've declined the job saying it would take too long... There are still a lot of shops around me, I just have to find one willing to take it on. I have increased my budget a bit and can always work more so the money will come.

As far as some of the optional services they threw on there, I just did power steering, diff fluid swap and I have 0 clue what hvac vent service is like everyone else hahaha. Could be the small clicking sound I have that I don't care to fix because it all still works.
But as far as the seals that is a good recommendation, I will add it to the list.

 

[aemravan]

Just watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGq72QGa-Bk and they managed to do it without pulling engine but I can now see why the Toyota Techs would rather pull the engine to work on it.

Funny Enough I have actually been recommended a few shops by family and friends that are known to be able to do headgasket work, and they've declined the job saying it would take too long... There are still a lot of shops around me, I just have to find one willing to take it on. I have increased my budget a bit and can always work more so the money will come.

As far as some of the optional services they threw on there, I just did power steering, diff fluid swap and I have 0 clue what hvac vent service is like everyone else hahaha. Could be the small clicking sound I have that I don't care to fix because it all still works.
But as far as the seals that is a good recommendation, I will add it to the list.

I've seen that before with smaller shops declining tedious work.. the amount of money they would have to charge they know people won't pay.. they can probably make more doing basic service in the same amount of time it would take to do a big tedious job, especially on older vehicles , and up north where you tend to have more of a rust issue with not being able to get stuff loose easily.

The clicking I'm assuming is coming from the right side of your dash inside of the vehicle? I would say that is more than likely one of the servo motors starting to go (there is the air mix servo and the mode select servo that tend to go out and start clicking). I have the same issue in the summer when it gets hot and I want the In Your Face air flow mode lol. Every other mode the clicking stops, but in that particular one it will click just about non stop.

 

[bob3dsf]

my 2 cents:

1. The timing chain stuff is "potential" at BEST. There is NO change interval on the timing chain. The only reason is if it's been overheated, in which case stretch is probable. The way to tell is the color of the painted timing links. Paint there? good to go. Pain not there? change chain, guides, and tensioner. Is head gasket issue due to overheat? then it's possible to be needed, but not at all an absolute necessity.

2. Transmission and differential stuff: Highly suspect I call BS on that. Same with HAVC "vent service" and power steering. Spark plugs? How recently were they changed? if they are les than 20k miles then they don't need to be swapped in my opinion. Sure they are a small cost in that estimate, but there should be no problem with reusing good plugs. Maybe I'm being cheap, IDK...

Agree on changing the water pump, especially if it's the original one. With all on that estimate, I'm surprised the thermostat isn't on it.


If I had to do this right now, I would seriously consider pulling the motor, but that's because I suspect the classic leak in the timing cover, but I really think it's the tensioner cover. I would just make a list of all the annoying things that would best be done with the motor out of the truck and just do a bunch of stuff. I have an engine crane and a couple friends I can call for assistance who are very knowledgeable and keep me from doing something stupid. Plus, I'd like to learn how to do it. But it's my DD, so I would wait until the summer when my wife is on break (teacher) and the kids don't need to get to school, then I'd take the time off work so I'm not stressing at 11pm with parts all over the ground...