Stealership just quoted me $7,000 for headgasket on 2004

[zguy1]

my 2 cents:

1. The timing chain stuff is "potential" at BEST. There is NO change interval on the timing chain. The only reason is if it's been overheated, in which case stretch is probable. The way to tell is the color of the painted timing links. Paint there? good to go. Pain not there? change chain, guides, and tensioner. Is head gasket issue due to overheat? then it's possible to be needed, but not at all an absolute necessity.

2. Transmission and differential stuff: Highly suspect I call BS on that. Same with HAVC "vent service" and power steering. Spark plugs? How recently were they changed? if they are les than 20k miles then they don't need to be swapped in my opinion. Sure they are a small cost in that estimate, but there should be no problem with reusing good plugs. Maybe I'm being cheap, IDK...

Agree on changing the water pump, especially if it's the original one. With all on that estimate, I'm surprised the thermostat isn't on it.


If I had to do this right now, I would seriously consider pulling the motor, but that's because I suspect the classic leak in the timing cover, but I really think it's the tensioner cover. I would just make a list of all the annoying things that would best be done with the motor out of the truck and just do a bunch of stuff. I have an engine crane and a couple friends I can call for assistance who are very knowledgeable and keep me from doing something stupid. Plus, I'd like to learn how to do it. But it's my DD, so I would wait until the summer when my wife is on break (teacher) and the kids don't need to get to school, then I'd take the time off work so I'm not stressing at 11pm with parts all over the ground...

I agree with both points. I took the same stance when opting not to replace any timing components. If I had to do this job again, which I am not planning to, I would pull the motor.

 

[phatcheeks]

I paid 2k for my HG but I provided the parts. I did not do the timing chains. Looking back I probably should have since everything was apart. It would of been "free" as long I provided the parts. But I was only at 145k and the OEM chains should last for more than double that.

 

[chrisbagnell]

I've seen that before with smaller shops declining tedious work.. the amount of money they would have to charge they know people won't pay.. they can probably make more doing basic service in the same amount of time it would take to do a big tedious job, especially on older vehicles , and up north where you tend to have more of a rust issue with not being able to get stuff loose easily.

The clicking I'm assuming is coming from the right side of your dash inside of the vehicle? I would say that is more than likely one of the servo motors starting to go (there is the air mix servo and the mode select servo that tend to go out and start clicking). I have the same issue in the summer when it gets hot and I want the In Your Face air flow mode lol. Every other mode the clicking stops, but in that particular one it will click just about non stop.

Exactly what I was thinking, way more money/less work for small shops to do 10 brake changes in a day than 1 headgasket.

I think its the servo motor, but I have different symptoms than you. Mine squeaks like a mouse on every setting and I think also when off, might be something else but everything still works so I'm not touching it. Its been like this easily a few years

my 2 cents:

1. The timing chain stuff is "potential" at BEST. There is NO change interval on the timing chain. The only reason is if it's been overheated, in which case stretch is probable. The way to tell is the color of the painted timing links. Paint there? good to go. Pain not there? change chain, guides, and tensioner. Is head gasket issue due to overheat? then it's possible to be needed, but not at all an absolute necessity.

2. Transmission and differential stuff: Highly suspect I call BS on that. Same with HAVC "vent service" and power steering. Spark plugs? How recently were they changed? if they are les than 20k miles then they don't need to be swapped in my opinion. Sure they are a small cost in that estimate, but there should be no problem with reusing good plugs. Maybe I'm being cheap, IDK...

Agree on changing the water pump, especially if it's the original one. With all on that estimate, I'm surprised the thermostat isn't on it.


If I had to do this right now, I would seriously consider pulling the motor, but that's because I suspect the classic leak in the timing cover, but I really think it's the tensioner cover. I would just make a list of all the annoying things that would best be done with the motor out of the truck and just do a bunch of stuff. I have an engine crane and a couple friends I can call for assistance who are very knowledgeable and keep me from doing something stupid. Plus, I'd like to learn how to do it. But it's my DD, so I would wait until the summer when my wife is on break (teacher) and the kids don't need to get to school, then I'd take the time off work so I'm not stressing at 11pm with parts all over the ground...

Thankfully there has been no overheating. Temperature gauge has never gone past the middle. Its looking like a family member mechanic might be able to do this for me but is looking into it more because its a lot to do. I'll make a not about your timing chain recommendation.

Anyway I finish school in a few days so i can spend all my time trying to find a place to do it for me, if family member can't.

 

[zguy1]

I paid 2k for my HG but I provided the parts. I did not do the timing chains. Looking back I probably should have since everything was apart. It would of been "free" as long I provided the parts. But I was only at 145k and the OEM chains should last for more than double that.

Since I am doing this job myself currently and in the process of wrapping it up, I would gladly pay someone $2000 to do it. I think that’s a very fair price just for the labor alone.

 

[MikeinNH67]

I can see how pulling the engine would make some things easier, especially removing the rusted bolts on the exhaust manifolds. Thing is from what I've seen with others doing motor swaps is after I've found loose fasteners, broken connectors and cables not dressed properly. I guess this is part of the reason I do most of my own work, the repair places out there don't seem to be up to my expectations.

BTW, don't be surprised if the exhaust manifolds won't seal after the heads are out. Sadly the mating material is kinda thin.

 

[chrisbagnell]

Looking on Copart for 06-09 wrecked 4Runners for possible engine swap as well as car-part.com for engines near me. Around 3.5k for an engine on car-part, and equivalent for an entire car on Copart, but shipping would kill and it does not include any labor.

I'll have to spreadsheet it out, but with the amount of time and $ I put into my current build, especially it being my first vehicle, I think I am just going to tough it out as well as its below the dealership quote.

I will keep this thread updated once it all gets sorted so anyone else with this issue can look at this for reference

 

[chrisbagnell]

I have been calling mechanics all week. Most turn me away once I say Toyota head gasket. Only 2 mechanics said they would be able to do it, one quoted me about $5,000 and seemed honest about it, but strictly head gaskets and water pump.

The other quoted me about $7,000 give or take a few hundred which will include headgasket, timing chain, thermostat, water pump, head machining, spark plugs, coolant, hoses, oil, and a few other small things. He said with the age of the vehicle the valves could be leaking and would maybe require a valve job.

And this was all without seeing the vehicle so he was giving a rough estimate. Engine has never overheated, no signs of headgasket issues other than slow loss of coolant and now confirmed leak in cylinder 4. Vehicle has clearly been well maintained with my first post tracking all oil changes etc..

What do you all think? For some reason I feel like the mechanic that quoted $7,000 is going to do a better job, but I am unsure on ALL of the options he put on the quote. I think I can knock it down a bit. I know I am keeping my 4R for at least 5 more years so it is worth it IMO. What would you do?

If Valves are bad that will cost more obviously, so I was looking at new/refurb engines from Jasper Engines (Local) Toyota 4Runner Engines

 

[zguy1]

I have been calling mechanics all week. Most turn me away once I say Toyota head gasket. Only 2 mechanics said they would be able to do it, one quoted me about $5,000 and seemed honest about it, but strictly head gaskets and water pump.

The other quoted me about $7,000 give or take a few hundred which will include headgasket, timing chain, thermostat, water pump, head machining, spark plugs, coolant, hoses, oil, and a few other small things. He said with the age of the vehicle the valves could be leaking and would maybe require a valve job.

And this was all without seeing the vehicle so he was giving a rough estimate. Engine has never overheated, no signs of headgasket issues other than slow loss of coolant and now confirmed leak in cylinder 4. Vehicle has clearly been well maintained with my first post tracking all oil changes etc..

What do you all think? For some reason I feel like the mechanic that quoted $7,000 is going to do a better job, but I am unsure on ALL of the options he put on the quote. I think I can knock it down a bit. I know I am keeping my 4R for at least 5 more years so it is worth it IMO. What would you do?

If Valves are bad that will cost more obviously, so I was looking at new/refurb engines from Jasper Engines (Local) Toyota 4Runner Engines

I don't envy you. I was in your situation a few months ago, so I know what you are going through. Fortunately, I was able (or crazy enough) to take this on. I went into this repair prepared to buy another used car if the repair did not work out. Considering what I paid for the truck 3 years ago, I did not want to invest $5000 in a car that had almost 300k miles.

Let's forget about the repair costs for a minute. I am not a professional mechanic, but there is no way you have "bad" valves. Especially if your car has been running and idling smooth. I don't recall you even mentioning a check engine light being on. In my opinion, a "bad" valve would mean a burnt valve and that would need to be replaced. I'm pretty sure you would know if you had a burnt valve. Your valve maybe slightly leaking due to some carbon buildup but that's about it. I had 295k miles on my V6 and seven of my 16 valves were leaking. Apparently even with that happening, I always felt like my truck ran and idled fine prior to replacing the head gaskets.

At the very least, either of the mechanics should check the heads for trueness or leaks before putting new head gaskets on.
As far as the timing chain goes, I personally would not change any of the timing components especially if there were no issues with timing or codes being set.

So you would need at most:
- Engine Valve Grind gasket kit (has every seal needed for the job)
- Water pump (change this while you are in there.)
- Thermostat
- Head bolts (I used Fel Pro and many folks have done so without issues)
- Spark plugs
- Toyota FIPG sealer
- Oil and oil filter
- Coolant (2 gallons)
- Exhaust manifold nuts and studs (if these are rusty)

All the parts above are OEM with the exception of the head bolts, oil and coolant and can be had for around $600 if the OEM parts are ordered from an online store. Expect to pay 50% or more if buying the parts from the dealer directly. I wonder if those shops would quote you for the labor only. Maybe that could save you some additional money if you are bringing your own parts.

 

[MikeinNH67]

If Valves are bad that will cost more obviously, so I was looking at new/refurb engines from Jasper Engines (Local) Toyota 4Runner Engines

Research Jasper,, the reviews are not good from what I've seen. Rebuilt engines in general scare me as you don't know what quality of parts are put in there. Having someone rebuild will at least tell you what the parts are. Maybe not a big deal with a Toyota as they may be only replacing a head gasket but you don't know what sort of trauma the engine had in the past.

 

[chrisbagnell]

Research Jasper,, the reviews are not good from what I've seen. Rebuilt engines in general scare me as you don't know what quality of parts are put in there. Having someone rebuild will at least tell you what the parts are. Maybe not a big deal with a Toyota as they may be only replacing a head gasket but you don't know what sort of trauma the engine had in the past.

Yea I am staying away from rebuilt engines, mine is running great minus the small leak. I am going to drive it tonight and see how its running. Taking to shop tomorrow!

I don't envy you. I was in your situation a few months ago, so I know what you are going through. Fortunately, I was able (or crazy enough) to take this on. I went into this repair prepared to buy another used car if the repair did not work out. Considering what I paid for the truck 3 years ago, I did not want to invest $5000 in a car that had almost 300k miles.

Let's forget about the repair costs for a minute. I am not a professional mechanic, but there is no way you have "bad" valves. Especially if your car has been running and idling smooth. I don't recall you even mentioning a check engine light being on. In my opinion, a "bad" valve would mean a burnt valve and that would need to be replaced. I'm pretty sure you would know if you had a burnt valve. Your valve maybe slightly leaking due to some carbon buildup but that's about it. I had 295k miles on my V6 and seven of my 16 valves were leaking. Apparently even with that happening, I always felt like my truck ran and idled fine prior to replacing the head gaskets.

At the very least, either of the mechanics should check the heads for trueness or leaks before putting new head gaskets on.
As far as the timing chain goes, I personally would not change any of the timing components especially if there were no issues with timing or codes being set.

So you would need at most:
- Engine Valve Grind gasket kit (has every seal needed for the job)
- Water pump (change this while you are in there.)
- Thermostat
- Head bolts (I used Fel Pro and many folks have done so without issues)
- Spark plugs
- Toyota FIPG sealer
- Oil and oil filter
- Coolant (2 gallons)
- Exhaust manifold nuts and studs (if these are rusty)

All the parts above are OEM with the exception of the head bolts, oil and coolant and can be had for around $600 if the OEM parts are ordered from an online store. Expect to pay 50% or more if buying the parts from the dealer directly. I wonder if those shops would quote you for the labor only. Maybe that could save you some additional money if you are bringing your own parts.

I appreciate your input. I am sure the mechanic was just trying to tell me every possible way it could go wrong, however I think this will be a very easy job from their perspective. Never had a check engine light, no overheating, etc.
Right after I posted this I called one more shop and they quoted me about $4400 according to their engine tech give or take a little. I am going to take it in tomorrow and see if I provide my own parts if it will be cheaper and mention the timing chain not having to be done. I think its preventative maintenance from their perspective and makes sense since it already had to come off, but I will update with what they say. If I can get this all done for under $5,000 I will be one happy camper!

 

[zguy1]

Yea I am staying away from rebuilt engines, mine is running great minus the small leak. I am going to drive it tonight and see how its running. Taking to shop tomorrow!




I appreciate your input. I am sure the mechanic was just trying to tell me every possible way it could go wrong, however I think this will be a very easy job from their perspective. Never had a check engine light, no overheating, etc.
Right after I posted this I called one more shop and they quoted me about $4400 according to their engine tech give or take a little. I am going to take it in tomorrow and see if I provide my own parts if it will be cheaper and mention the timing chain not having to be done. I think its preventative maintenance from their perspective and makes sense since it already had to come off, but I will update with what they say. If I can get this all done for under $5,000 I will be one happy camper!

Believe me, I totally get the preventative maintenance idea. I’m a big fan of it myself. I just don’t know how one can choose to replace just the main timing chain over all of the other components there unless it is out of spec per the service manual. There are 3 chains, 4 chain guides, 3 tensioners and two sprockets. All of the components, if replaced with OEM, will cost anywhere between $600 and $1000 depending on where they are bought. Going aftermarket with working timing components doesn’t make sense to me. If your goal is to keep the total cost down, then keep that in mind since the labor costs are the biggest part of this job. My opinion of course.

It sounds like you are on the right track though. Keep us posted…

 

[chrisbagnell]

Got the call this morning from the shop I dropped my truck off at, expecting it to be confirmation on headgasket and estimated bill. They told me they spent the past few days diagnosing, did a full leakdown test as well as stuck a camera down the cylinder heads and found no signs of headgasket issue. From the call it seemed like they examined every possible option on the engine and wanted to confirm how I suspected it in the first place since they could not find anything relating to headgasket issues.

They did find a very small leak in the radiator and the thermostat is stuck in one position, but the engine never overheated and they are going to replaced thermostat and radiator. This would explain the coolant loss...

However, I am confused as to why coolant was appearing in the oil analysis from blackstone. Still a bit concerned on this one. I did tell the Toyota dealership I suspected a headgasket leak, so I am wondering if they gave it a bad diagnoses to collect a paycheck.

 

[jambone]

Well that is fantastic news!

I was about to reply to this thread saying that (if I were in your shoes) I would repair that engine rather than swap in a used one. You know the history of yours, and all is well, minus the faulty head gasket issue. If you feel like driving it for another 10 years, then I wouldn't hesitate to have it fixed. Just find the right shop at a reasonable price (not necessarily the cheapest). ~$5k is a lot to drop, but it's cheaper than a new (or new/used) car.

 

[zguy1]

Got the call this morning from the shop I dropped my truck off at, expecting it to be confirmation on headgasket and estimated bill. They told me they spent the past few days diagnosing, did a full leakdown test as well as stuck a camera down the cylinder heads and found no signs of headgasket issue. From the call it seemed like they examined every possible option on the engine and wanted to confirm how I suspected it in the first place since they could not find anything relating to headgasket issues.

They did find a very small leak in the radiator and the thermostat is stuck in one position, but the engine never overheated and they are going to replaced thermostat and radiator. This would explain the coolant loss...

However, I am confused as to why coolant was appearing in the oil analysis from blackstone. Still a bit concerned on this one. I did tell the Toyota dealership I suspected a headgasket leak, so I am wondering if they gave it a bad diagnoses to collect a paycheck.

That is good news for sure. My radiator was leaking but was not visible until I removed the shroud to take a better look. I wish I could comment on the Blackstone analysis, but I never did one. I'm sure others may chime in.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the Blackstone report especially if it wasn't obvious when visually checking the oil after an oil change. I would fix the radiator and thermostat and call it a day. Just my opinion of course...

 

[hutchison]

Dang 5.7k for hg's!
Is this back the future 4 in 2032?

I would always reccomend learning by way of toyota build book and or haynes manual an engine stand and crane and some patience in your own time. This takes weeks or months for home build. Also comes with its own quality and cleanliness risks for the amateur, but i would never advise against learning.

I have built 4 previous toyota variants of engine, 3 on the bench and one in the vehicle, F doing one in the vehicle again, But at 5.7k i'm sold on that idea.

 

[gearheadengineer]

Had mine done by an independent shop for around $3500 Canadian. Heads machined and all. Just a note mine wasn't discovered until I started getting rough idles on start and blowing white smoke out exhaust. If you aren't experiencing those yet you're probably fine for a little bit. No regret having done and bought me 6 years so far.

Are you able to name drop said shop?? I’m in Canada too and frequent go across the country. Would definitely be willing to stop somewhere for a couple days for that price.