Stereo on w/o key mod?

[bawachhe]

Hey, sorry if this has been discussed before. I have been searching on the forums and the internet alike, and as of yet haven't found this mod, but I feel like it's highly likely that it's been looked at before.

Before my 4r, I had an 07 Saturn Ion. It was bone stock in the sense of its stereo. (had some other mods, no need to detail unless someone's curious.)
As many of you know who have driven or been in post-2001? GM vehicles, they have this wonderful feature where they don't turn off the stereo after you take the key out, for either 30 minutes or until a door is opened.

I therefore IMMEDIATELY noticed that the 4r does not have this functionality, and I would like to change that. I'd rather not just have it constantly powered regardless of other things..

If it makes any difference, I'm in the process of securing a Scion T1808 to replace my stock non-jbl stereo as well, so for the sake of suggestions or links, please assume I have a T1808. I plan to add a bluetooth kit that I already have to it as well, on the CD1/SAT auxiliary plug.

TIA for any help/links/info!

 

[gshadow325]

DIY MOD: Retained radio power till a door opens!

First off, thanks for making me think today!

Took me 5 minutes for the concept and how to do it, but took me 30 minutes to draw it out for you!



Recipe:
2 Double throw relays, basically 5 pole relay
1 3 three amp diode

relay 1 on the left
relay 2 on the right

wiring:
relay 1 and diode:
#86 and #87 get tied together and goes to your radio accesory power.
this is where diode comes into play.

#87a remains empty on relay 1

you see the grey band? that end, you need to have that going towards your radio accesory power. the other side is the power feed from the gray wire @ the radio harness. concept is power feeding the radio does not back flow into the car when you turn off the car.

now is where you need to tie the two relays together using the following wires

Relay2:

#30 from relay 1 gets tied to #86 from relay 2 to 12 volt constant power @ radio harness (blue/yellow wire)

relay 1 #85 gets connected to relay 2 #87a

relay 2 #30 gets connected to ground (brown wire at radio harness)

relay 2 #87 is empty

relay 2 #85 is the door trigger wire(purple/yellow wire at top plug above fuse box)

So here is the concept of this diagram. relay one is the power supply for the radio. it will get power from the car when its normally on. when the car shuts off, relay 2 is still supplying ground to relay 1 so, relay 1 is still latched on.

when you open the door, it will momentarilly click relay 2 to output out to #87. but #87 has nothing. when the relay 2 opens, it also unlatches relay 1 thus turning off the supply of power to the radio.

Its simple, if you really think about it.

Another DIY mod from me! all you need to do is ask!

 

[zopperman]

...complicated stuff ...

how i would feel trying this (and I feel like I'm half decent with 12v)

 

[leftyguns21]

first question is does bawachhe know anything about wiring/stereos?
if so gshadow325 will work, or a less complicated/more annoying/ ghetto way is set it to a constant 12v. all steroes have two power ins, one is constant 12v (to keep stations/clock) 2nd is only active when car is on. find that and send to constant 12v and wa-la.
the downside to this is you will always have to turn the stereo off when you leave your car.
is this a feature you really want?

 

[nevada]

I appreciate the effort for that ^^. and was thinking to start this exact same thread..

but theres no way im going through all that for something that SHOULD be a factory option.
and, that im not totally convinced ISNT already possible with the oe hardware.

 

[gshadow325]

Zak, where did i loose you buddy? what part? lets make it as easy as possible!

 

[zopperman]

Zak, where did i loose you buddy? what part? lets make it as easy as possible!

Lol, i get it, i just never would have come up with that :yo:
I would have done what the other guy said and just dealt with turning it off lol

 

[gshadow325]

thats what happens when you have 12 volts running thru your blood!

 

[gshadow325]

first question is does bawachhe know anything about wiring/stereos?
if so gshadow325 will work, or a less complicated/more annoying/ ghetto way is set it to a constant 12v. all steroes have two power ins, one is constant 12v (to keep stations/clock) 2nd is only active when car is on. find that and send to constant 12v and wa-la.
the downside to this is you will always have to turn the stereo off when you leave your car.
is this a feature you really want?

thats not a good idea to wire the radio to 12volt constant. you will shorten the radio's life span. also cause excessive drain on the battery. even though the radio is "off" its actually still on.

My expert recommendation is to NOT wire it up as suggested. Its only complicated because you did not grasp the concept of what the relays are doing. If you are confused about what i am trying to explain, please ask the question(s) so i can clarify it for you. In my crazy head its all logical!

 

[leftyguns21]

thats not a good idea to wire the radio to 12volt constant. you will shorten the radio's life span. also cause excessive drain on the battery. even though the radio is "off" its actually still on.

oh i know...thats why its the 'gheto' way. my first car was rigged like this.

i wouldnt do either route cause
a) im too lazy
b) i dont see the need of what OP is requesting

 

[gshadow325]

oh i know...thats why its the 'gheto' way. my first car was rigged like this.

i wouldnt do either route cause
a) im too lazy
b) i dont see the need of what OP is requesting

Hey at least you got a choice to do it or not. Not being able to might annoy you. Many consumers coming from American cars have this"feature". It's nice to have, and is a simple mod to do to have a convenience feature.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I'm confused... does he want to have the radio be on with the key out of the ignition... or does he just want to be able to turn the radio one with the ignition in the OFF position?

 

[gshadow325]

I'm confused... does he want to have the radio be on with the key out of the ignition... or does he just want to be able to turn the radio one with the ignition in the OFF position?

what the OP wants is, what was introduced by GM in the early 80's called RAP(retained accessory power).

Idea is to have the radio stay on when the key turned off from the run position and the key removed. as long as the doors are not opened, the car will retain power to the accesories ex: radio.
[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] did you understand my diagram and instructions? sometimes it sounds right in my head but i dont know if it gets put in words correctly.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

what the OP wants is, what was introduced by GM in the early 80's called RAP(retained accessory power).

Idea is to have the radio stay on when the key turned off from the run position and the key removed. as long as the doors are not opened, the car will retain power to the accesories ex: radio.

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] did you understand my diagram and instructions? sometimes it sounds right in my head but i dont know if it gets put in words correctly.

I can't see pictures on work computers half the time...

But normally the GM cars used a module to control that functionality didn't they? Couldn't you just use an alarm module (like the one used in the rear window hack) and tie it to the ignition switch and door switch?

 

[gshadow325]

I can't see pictures on work computers half the time...

But normally the GM cars used a module to control that functionality didn't they? Couldn't you just use an alarm module (like the one used in the rear window hack) and tie it to the ignition switch and door switch?

Yes, GMs have it tied into the bcm now on newer vehicles. Older ones used a module.

Wouldn't running to radio Shack and buying two relays and a two pack of 3amp diodes for about $10 more convenient than looking for an alarm module?

Btw, what is the rear Window hack?

 

[bawachhe]

Alright, first of all WOW, thanks for a very highly thought out custom solution gshadow325!

Second, is blackworksinc talking about gshadow325's back window hack? I was looking at that one for later doing as well, actually. Or is it another you're thinking of, blackworksinc?

Third, so this solution basically lets accessory power go through, no prob, and also continues providing it under the condition that the key is off/out and the doors are closed. It doesn't have a time out right? I don't think it's so necessary, since 30 minutes is an absurdly long time and I'll probably get bored by then, but just confirming.

Fourth: The backflow prevention is done via the 3A diode, correct? (also I'm confused a bit by inconsistencies: is it one 3A diode or many, and if so how many?)

Fifth: (Edit) So the door opens which clicks off relay 2 briefly which clicks off relay one until... original accessory power comes back?

Sixth: again, THANKS SO MUCH! :yo: This is really awesome/well thought out.

 

[gshadow325]

Alright, first of all WOW, thanks for a very highly thought out custom solution gshadow325!

Second, is blackworksinc talking about gshadow325's back window hack? I was looking at that one for later doing as well, actually. Or is it another you're thinking of, blackworksinc?

Third, so this solution basically lets accessory power go through, no prob, and also continues providing it under the condition that the key is off/out and the doors are closed. It doesn't have a time out right? I don't think it's so necessary, since 30 minutes is an absurdly long time and I'll probably get bored by then, but just confirming.

Fourth: The backflow prevention is done via the 3A diode, correct? (also I'm confused a bit by inconsistencies: is it one 3A diode or many, and if so how many?)

Fifth: (Edit) So the door opens which clicks off relay 2 briefly which clicks off relay one until... original accessory power comes back?

Sixth: again, THANKS SO MUCH! :yo: This is really awesome/well thought out.

1: you welcome
2: IDK i was hoping he would chime in on that
3: correct, they relay was energized and clicked(latched on). every condition was met to turn relay on, when the vehicle was on. when the vehicle is off, the relay remains latched even though the trigger power is gone. ONLY when the negative signal is taken away, then the relay will unlatch back to its original state.

this does not time out. you do have to get out of the car eventually. in some cases you can leave it on indefinatly. example: remote start the car. shut the engine off via remote. this relay will remain energized until it sees a door open. if it never opens the radio stays on forever

4: diode prevents power from flowing back into the circuit to whatever is upstream. think of it like a dam, it prevents positive electricity from flowing backwards. on another note, that same diode turned around can prevent ground from flowing backwards. its only one 3amp diode, its in the recipe

5: ok, so how a relay works. in its rested state. 30 and 87a is always connected. so whatever you have connected to 30 will come out of 87a. if its positive or negative going into 30, then 87a will get positive with nothing connected. 86 and 85 have to be polar opposites, meaning one has to be ground and one has to be negative. usually 85 is negative and 86 is positive.

so look at relay 1, once the car turns on, relay 1 gets latched because relay 2 is sending a ground to it automatically. relay 2 has #30 ground feed in and its going out from relay 2's 87a to relay 1's #85. this will make the relay spring open to latch and output to 87(this is connected to radio accessory wire) on relay 1.

original accessory power cant come back since the key is off. when the key was on the relay clicked on(latched on). even when original accessory power gets turned off the relay stays on. because once power flows thru the diode it cant flow back. thats why the accessory wire going to the radio is also tied into relay 1's 86 and 87.

this will make you go ahhh. i know whathe is talking about now. read carefully ok?

-when the car gets turned on
-the relay will have two 12 volt supplies, one from 30 and one from 86. relay doesnt care how it gets power as long as it does.
-remember, 30 is your input. it can be negative or positive
-**what ever is connected to 30, in its rested state automatically come out of 87a.
-when the relay gets both triggers, negative on 85 and positive on 86, then it will send whatever is going into 30 out thru 87. in the case of relay 1, its 12 volt positive. relay 2 is ground
-when the car shuts down, no positive is provided from 86, only from 30 and the diode is preventing power from going upstream from the 12volt feed from 30 on relay 1.
-since relay 2 is giving relay 1 ground. read the ** above again, power stays on to the radio on relay1
-once you open the door, relay 2 now wants to move output from 87a to 87. since relay 2 was originally giving relay1 a ground. the ground gets taken away the relay goes back to its rested state when 30 and 87a is connected. thus the radio turns off
-once you close the door again, relay 2 doesnt get a gound so it goes back to its rested state where 30 and 87a is connected. since relay 2 is giving relay1 a ground, relay1 is now waiting for a positive trigger, thats when you turn the key on. thus repeating the whole process back to the beginning.

6: thanks, i am trying to be as clear as possible. if you get confused just reread it again carefully. its simple actually. only way i can make it more simple is with highlighters and colors and crayons...that will be tough since i will have to fight my 9 year old and 7 year old for those, i dont own any crayons LoL

 

[Asmara]

Yes, GMs have it tied into the bcm now on newer vehicles. Older ones used a module.

Wouldn't running to radio Shack and buying two relays and a two pack of 3amp diodes for about $10 more convenient than looking for an alarm module?

Btw, what is the rear Window hack?

I took a look at the wiring diagram and the factory wiring diagram and it looks like this will work. Pretty ingenious actually. The only thing I can't confirm is the tie-in to the purple wire with yellow stripe. It is part of the door circuit but my diagrams don't have the detail I need. What is should do is create a path to ground for the second relay when the door is open.

Relays can be confusing but they are basically just electric switches. To make the concept simpler, just think about a household light switch. You flip the switch and a mechanical connection is made inside the switch and the lights come on. In a relay instead of you flipping the switch, there is a separate electrical circuit that flips the switch for you. It still makes a mechanical connection inside the relay.

Here's a non-technical explanation of the circuit. In [MENTION=93434]gshadow325[/MENTION]'s circuit he basically lets the car switch the radio on as usual with the ACC circuit, then once the radio is turned on he uses an electrical loop that uses the radio's own power to ensure that the radio stays on even when the ACC circuit is shut down (the diode is required to keep from back feeding the looped power into your ACC circuit). Then to kill the radio when the door opens, he uses another relay that is wired normally closed (always switched on) to control the switch on the first relay. You open the door and the electric switch that was initiated by the ACC circuit and held by the radio power is turned off.

As far as the rear window hack - check my signature for Back Window Up with Remote Mod

 

[Atlanta_man]

let's see, 2 relays, diode, wiring, mounting, klunky but functional I suppose...
anyway:
There's a ton of relays and pre-built modules that get you all or most of the way to what you want. Just google for "off time delay relay module". Under $10 if you are persistent with your search and don't insist on the door-open cancel feature or industrial quality. Otherwise to implement the cancel you do need a diode (or in some cases a small capacitor) and a module with a cancel terminal.

If you don't want a prebuilt module, focus on the 555 timer circuits (yes they will need one relay but it can be solid state as well).

 

[gshadow325]

let's see, 2 relays, diode, wiring, mounting, klunky but functional I suppose...
anyway:
There's a ton of relays and pre-built modules that get you all or most of the way to what you want. Just google for "off time delay relay module". Under $10 if you are persistent with your search and don't insist on the door-open cancel feature or industrial quality. Otherwise to implement the cancel you do need a diode (or in some cases a small capacitor) and a module with a cancel terminal.

If you don't want a prebuilt module, focus on the 555 timer circuits (yes they will need one relay but it can be solid state as well).

[MENTION=3601]Atlanta_man[/MENTION] you offer all these other options with opinions. I think my solution would satisfy what the OP asked for.

When you reference the 555 timer circuits, are you trying to refer to the DEI 528T pulse timer module? The 555 products are all old antiquated bypass modules that DEI made back in the 2000's, like 555u/s/p/l/k/j.
[MENTION=3601]Atlanta_man[/MENTION] you said my solution is "klunky", how would you propose i can make it less "klunky"?