Strange Front End Noise - I'm baffled

[BMC2U]

I've searched the forums high and low and can't find anything that sounds like the issue I am having.

I'm fairly new to this forum and purchased a 2002 Runner several months ago.
A few weeks ago I took it wheeling in the snow and after the day, airing back up and heading down the hill, I noticed this very odd rotational whine/rattle between 2k-3K rpm. It only occurs when under throttle power. It will immediately stop if I let off the throttle or kick it in neutral.

It does not do it any other time other than when under power and around that 2K rpm range. Rev it up parked, sounds perfect. Steering feels fine. No leaks anywhere that I have seen. It actually still drives just fine other than his noise. I'm driving it 50 plus miles every day, driving great.
It doesn't do it cold. The sound only starts after I've been driving for a few miles. And it isn't constant. Sometimes it doesn't do it.

A side note: The first trip wheeling in the snow and letting it idle or run pretty much all day, it threw a P420 code. I shrugged it off as the cat sitting in the snow for long periods idling and probably build up from idling for so long. Cleared code and it never came back until the next weekend I hit the snow again to wheel around. Same thing, after several hours of snow play, the CEL for P420 came on. Cleared it right there and headed home and it never came back.

I mention that because the two items mentioned occurred around the same time. I doubt there is any coincidence but you never know.

The noise thing has me really baffled. Noises are virtually impossible to describe. Anyone who is a fisherman and has spooled up a reel with line, the sound is nearly identical to if you had the plastic spool on a bolt and were spinning it fast. It is a plastic-like rotational sound coming from the front passenger side area, and again, ONLY between 2K-3K and when under throttle power. Doesn't do it at idle or when not under load. Does it driving straight or when turning.

The vehicle is lifted (Toytec) on 33s.
Has an 04 motor with about 90K miles.
Belts and timing done at 86K.
Radiator, bushings, ball joints, etc have all been replaced less than 6 months ago.

The noise is clearly coming from the passenger side of the engine/front chassis side. That I am certain.

Sorry to bring up another "noise" thread. I'm really confused on what the hell this could be and looking for any ideas to look at.

Thanks.

 

[BostonJon]

Some sort of belt/pulley noise?

 

[19963.4lsr5]

It could be a front drive shaft u-joint or a front CV joint. It could also be a sway bar link or bushing.


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[afg10000]

I'll throw this out there since I just got done dealing with it. PIA to diagnose. Needle bearing in the front diff. Mine sounded exactly like a u-joint going bad but wasn't.

 

[mtbtim]

Like somebody already mentioned, I'd check belt tension and noise from pulleys first. If it was a wheel bearing, the rpms wouldn't matter. If it was a CV axle, differential needle bearing, or driveshaft, the rpms wouldn't matter either. It has to do with the speed of the engine which is telling you it's most likely one of the pulleys.

You would not be the first person who has experienced belt/pulley noise after going through a mud puddle, snow or whatever that could cause the belts and pulleys to make some noise.

Checking belt tension with a gauge is ideal but you can do it also by checking the deflection of the belt by grabbing it midway between two pulleys and seeing how far you can push and pull it. 1/2-3/4" of deflection is about right.

This video might help you out:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Zi1XfFUOjKc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[BMC2U]

Like somebody already mentioned, I'd check belt tension and noise from pulleys first. If it was a wheel bearing, the rpms wouldn't matter. If it was a CV axle, differential needle bearing, or driveshaft, the rpms wouldn't matter either. It has to do with the speed of the engine which is telling you it's most likely one of the pulleys.

You would not be the first person who has experienced belt/pulley noise after going through a mud puddle, snow or whatever that could cause the belts and pulleys to make some noise.

Checking belt tension with a gauge is ideal but you can do it also by checking the deflection of the belt by grabbing it midway between two pulleys and seeing how far you can push and pull it. 1/2-3/4" of deflection is about right.

This video might help you out:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Zi1XfFUOjKc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Thanks. Yah I re-checked the belts last night, pretty darn tight really. Power steering works fine and full. The problem with this sound is you can ONLY hear it when driving at around 2500 rpm and accelerating. Let off the gas and it stops, kick it in nuetral, it stops. Rev it up when in neutral and rolling, no noise. It has a very specific time/situation when it occurs and unfortunately it isn't a time/event that allows easy diagnosis.
I've never heard a bad needle bearing but that could be a remote possibility. I don't think it is turning when in 2WD though.

Last night when i started it up from the passenger side, the power antenna motor went up. This motor is old and creaks and moans on the way up. Ironically, the sound it makes is nearly identical to the sound I heard in the above described situation. But how in the heck could a power antenna motor, not moving, make that noise only at throttle at 2500K. It is bizarre and I'm about to say F it and just send it until whatever it is fails.

 

[BMC2U]

I'll throw this out there since I just got done dealing with it. PIA to diagnose. Needle bearing in the front diff. Mine sounded exactly like a u-joint going bad but wasn't.

I'm curious as I have never heard a needle bearing going bad sound. Was it specific to a speed and only under motor acceleration load? Or did it do it all the time when the front axle was moving? Did it do it in 2WD? Just curious as I really do not know.
Thanks.

 

[MStudt]

Thanks. Yah I re-checked the belts last night, pretty darn tight really. Power steering works fine and full. The problem with this sound is you can ONLY hear it when driving at around 2500 rpm and accelerating. Let off the gas and it stops, kick it in nuetral, it stops. Rev it up when in neutral and rolling, no noise. It has a very specific time/situation when it occurs and unfortunately it isn't a time/event that allows easy diagnosis.
I've never heard a bad needle bearing but that could be a remote possibility. I don't think it is turning when in 2WD though.

Last night when i started it up from the passenger side, the power antenna motor went up. This motor is old and creaks and moans on the way up. Ironically, the sound it makes is nearly identical to the sound I heard in the above described situation. But how in the heck could a power antenna motor, not moving, make that noise only at throttle at 2500K. It is bizarre and I'm about to say F it and just send it until whatever it is fails.

Does the sound speed up or get louder as you accelerate? Does this happen in every gear around 2500 rpm or just a certain gear?

Mike

 

[gamefreakgc]

Mentioning it's only on the passenger's side tells me it might be exhaust related. Check your cat heat shields and tap around that whole area with a rubber mallet or dead blow hammer.

When I has my headers installed and rode in the passenger's side seat I thought I had a vibration. I did, it was the extra noise from the exhaust causing other items in the area to rattle but like you said, only under throttle. Takes only 5 minutes of your time to check.

 

[BMC2U]

Does the sound speed up or get louder as you accelerate? Does this happen in every gear around 2500 rpm or just a certain gear?

Mike

It does but very minimally. Not like you would expect it to. I haven't left it in 1 st gear and tried it to check a different gear. I will have to try that and see.

 

[BMC2U]

Mentioning it's only on the passenger's side tells me it might be exhaust related. Check your cat heat shields and tap around that whole area with a rubber mallet or dead blow hammer.

When I has my headers installed and rode in the passenger's side seat I thought I had a vibration. I did, it was the extra noise from the exhaust causing other items in the area to rattle but like you said, only under throttle. Takes only 5 minutes of your time to check.

My instinct from the get go has been something with the exhaust because of the P420 code that came at the same time (after coming down the mountain after wheeling the snow). I looked at the cat yesterday and didn't see anything that looked out of place. I will have to give it a few love taps with a rubber mallet and see if that helps. I think you might be on to something. Definitely worth a try!

 

[afg10000]

I'm curious as I have never heard a needle bearing going bad sound. Was it specific to a speed and only under motor acceleration load? Or did it do it all the time when the front axle was moving? Did it do it in 2WD? Just curious as I really do not know.
Thanks.

In my case it sounded like a u-joint squeaking. Sounds like birds chirping in a rhythmic pattern. Frequency would increase with speed or slowing in accord. Always does it in 2WD. Engage 4WD and it magically disappears. Reason being, in 2WD, the shaft is spinning inside the cylinder along the needles. When You click into 4WD, the whole bearing becomes one with the shaft and spins along with it. The best way I know how to put it. I never even knew it existed. There are a few other threads out there that discuss this but people describe more of a growly noise.

 

[runnersT4R]

P420 code can be a ton of stuff

Throwing this out there: My manual, 5-spd, '99 RWD has thrown the P420 code before but I've always had to get the sub-code (not sure what they call that). When mine threw that code, I first thought o2 sensor, but it turned out to be EGR valve. So it may not be related to the squeak?

Another possibility, is your rig a manual or auto? If manual, mine has a squeak similar to what you describe and my mechanic thinks it's a clutch bearing, even tho it has a new clutch w/ <10k on it. Just a thought.

 

[phattyduck]

Throwing this out there: My manual, 5-spd, '99 RWD has thrown the P420 code before but I've always had to get the sub-code (not sure what they call that). When mine threw that code, I first thought o2 sensor, but it turned out to be EGR valve. So it may not be related to the squeak?

Another possibility, is your rig a manual or auto? If manual, mine has a squeak similar to what you describe and my mechanic thinks it's a clutch bearing, even tho it has a new clutch w/ <10k on it. Just a thought.

2002 = V6 auto only. No EGR valve either... Interesting thoughts though!

-Charlie

 

[BMC2U]

I checked some of the items suggested and didn't find anything noticeable. I even hammered on the cat with a rubber mallet to make sure nothing was loose. Drove it this morning and it continued to do it, although now I noticed that it did it starting at a lower rpm range up through 2500. Still only does it under power, if I let off the gas, it stops. Here is a video that I recorded with my phone. You can really only hear it with a phone. I couldn't hear it with my desktop speakers.

YouTube

 

[BMC2U]

Update. Went through the front belts last night. Found the AC tensioner was kinda loose. Swapped it out today and went for a drive. No noise. Then I jinxed myself and told the wife I think I found the problem. A few miles down the road the noise appears again.

Could the transmission make those plastic sounding rotational whine noise? It only does it under throttle load. Let off gas and it stops.

 

[BostonJon]

Update. Went through the front belts last night. Found the AC tensioner was kinda loose. Swapped it out today and went for a drive. No noise. Then I jinxed myself and told the wife I think I found the problem. A few miles down the road the noise appears again.

Could the transmission make those plastic sounding rotational whine noise? It only does it under throttle load. Let off gas and it stops.

Did you swap out the belt too or just the tensioner?

 

[BMC2U]

Did you swap out the belt too or just the tensioner?

Just the tensioner. Belts were replaced less than 10k ago and look new.