Stumped: New brakes now odd "clunk" at wheel?

[Bftfan]

I put on new pads & rotors last weekend and except for rusty caliper pins in front it went pretty smooth. Done lots of brakes in my lifetime this was just another one. Once I got it put all back together I noticed a faint "scrape, scrape" sound at the left-rear wheel and a definitive "CLUNK" when I backed up almost like something was binding.

So today I raise the the rear end and compare rear wheels. Driver's side clunks when the tire is turned and passenger side does not. I pull the rear driver's side wheel & caliper and it seems like the sound was coming from the E-brake. The E-brake shoes in here looked ok, no excessive wear or scoring on the new rotor. Pulled the rotor and backed off the star-adjuster and put it back on thinking this might be it and still getting a clunking sound from the hub assembly when turning the wheel in what would be reverse, even without the caliper & pads!! That old rotor came off easy and I doubt I damaged the wheel bearing in the process but I'm stumped! Any ideas?:sobbing:

Oh and I'm pretty sure it's not the infamous driveline clunk because I keel everything greased up real good and this is right at the rear wheel, only on the driver's side.

 

[MidwestT4R]

This might be a stretch, but did you check the retaining springs on your e-brake? These are the springs at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock that hold each of the e-brake shoes in place.

I ask only because I had some clunking and scraping and it turned out that one of the retaining spring's caps had popped off. So the brake shoe was flopping around a bit inside the rotor.

You may also want to go to the online manuals to see the diagram of the e-brake. Because if you do so you will see that these retaining springs have three components. A backing plate, the spring, and then the plate on the front. The back plate is round with a tab on it. In the diagram you will see that all three of these pieces should be on the outside of the brake pad. In other words, the pad frame should be behind these pieces. And there is a tab on the backing plate that fits into a hole on the e-brake pad.

If the tab popped out you may still have all the pieces there but the pad will be much looser and maybe make the banging noise you are experiencing.

If this is the case DO NOT take the pieces out! If they are all still hanging on the thin post (see the diagram), then you can take a pair of bent needle nose pliers (needle nose pliers with a 90 degree bend at the end) to try and reach behind the backing plate and pull it forward, compressing the spring, and rotate the backing plate tab back into place in the hole on the e-brake pad.

Again, it's a stretch. Good luck.



I get it that you will have to pull the caliper, caliper frame and the rotor again, but I can't think of any other reason.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Check how loose the actual mechanism is, I wonder if the shoes are slipping enough to grab on to the drum.

When you said you backed off the star wheel how many turns did you go? I'd just crank that sucker down to its smallest diameter, check the shoes for play and try once again to see if the clunk goes away. That will help eliminate the parking brake mechanism as a culprit.

 

[ebg18t]

Pad knock?

Are the pads snug, or is there any movement?

 

[Bftfan]

Check how loose the actual mechanism is, I wonder if the shoes are slipping enough to grab on to the drum.

When you said you backed off the star wheel how many turns did you go? I'd just crank that sucker down to its smallest diameter, check the shoes for play and try once again to see if the clunk goes away. That will help eliminate the parking brake mechanism as a culprit.

Yea, I popped the rotor off and backed the e-Brake right down to the smallest diameter to ensure it wouldn't grab anything at all, put it all back together and the "clunk" is still there. Sounds real bad in reverse and sounds it right at the wheel. What's odd is I put both rear wheels in the air, but it in Neutral and the right one spins without any problems, the left one has the CLUNK.

So I'm wondering frozen rear caliper? But it's all the way in the bore already and pads don't appear (or smell) to be dragging?

Did I @#$% something up when I hammered on the old rotor to try to get it off? I don't recall hitting them that hard and if I did break something it seems it's be there all the time.

Odd symptoms...slight cyclic rubbing going forward and loud, metallic clunk in reverse.

Hmmmm...it's got me baffled. Hope it's not $$$, my powertrain warranty ended 1500 miles ago. :nono:

 

[talonjade]

check the dust shield perhaps you bent it a little when removing the rotor and turning the wheel is rubbing/ bumping the over hang. I this this during my brake install but it was a different sound but still worth a look.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Pad knock?

Are the pads snug, or is there any movement?

He stated he still had the clunk without the pads or caliper in place, I was thinking pad knock/loose hardware until he mentioned that.

Yea, I popped the rotor off and backed the e-Brake right down to the smallest diameter to ensure it wouldn't grab anything at all, put it all back together and the "clunk" is still there. Sounds real bad in reverse and sounds it right at the wheel. What's odd is I put both rear wheels in the air, but it in Neutral and the right one spins without any problems, the left one has the CLUNK.

So I'm wondering frozen rear caliper? But it's all the way in the bore already and pads don't appear (or smell) to be dragging?

Did I @#$% something up when I hammered on the old rotor to try to get it off? I don't recall hitting them that hard and if I did break something it seems it's be there all the time.

Odd symptoms...slight cyclic rubbing going forward and loud, metallic clunk in reverse.

Hmmmm...it's got me baffled. Hope it's not $$$, my powertrain warranty ended 1500 miles ago. :nono:

Hmm, those are odd symptoms, I don't think the hub could be loose. Did you try to have someone look at the axle hub straight on with the rotor off, see if it is out of round or tweaked?

check the dust shield perhaps you bent it a little when removing the rotor and turning the wheel is rubbing/ bumping the over hang. I this this during my brake install but it was a different sound but still worth a look.

That's worth a look, not sure how it could cause the clunk, but it couldn't hurt to check.

 

[Bftfan]

check the dust shield perhaps you bent it a little when removing the rotor and turning the wheel is rubbing/ bumping the over hang. I this this during my brake install but it was a different sound but still worth a look.

Hmmm...I'll have to look at the dust shield more closely and see if it's contacting the wheel/rim in any way.

He stated he still had the clunk without the pads or caliper in place, I was thinking pad knock/loose hardware until he mentioned that.


Hmm, those are odd symptoms, I don't think the hub could be loose. Did you try to have someone look at the axle hub straight on with the rotor off, see if it is out of round or tweaked?



That's worth a look, not sure how it could cause the clunk, but it couldn't hurt to check.

Blackworks, not sure what you mean. Do you mean spin the axle with the rotor off to see if it's out of round?

.

 

[talonjade]

When all else fails get a high quality synthetic lube (Mobile 1 Full Synthetic [red]) and starta greasing! get the pins (soak them), any metal to metal needs the monkey rub... good luck!

 

[talonjade]

not sure what kind of pads your using (maybe it was a manufacturer error) perhaps the brakes were not broken in correctly?

Also I noticed when I started using quality ceramic brakes I got A LOT less clunking noises on both my old 01 Bonneville and 03 4runner.

:hatsoff:

 

[TechWrench]

This might be a stretch, but did you check the retaining springs on your e-brake? These are the springs at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock that hold each of the e-brake shoes in place.

I ask only because I had some clunking and scraping and it turned out that one of the retaining spring's caps had popped off. So the brake shoe was flopping around a bit inside the rotor.

You may also want to go to the online manuals to see the diagram of the e-brake. Because if you do so you will see that these retaining springs have three components. A backing plate, the spring, and then the plate on the front. The back plate is round with a tab on it. In the diagram you will see that all three of these pieces should be on the outside of the brake pad. In other words, the pad frame should be behind these pieces. And there is a tab on the backing plate that fits into a hole on the e-brake pad.

If the tab popped out you may still have all the pieces there but the pad will be much looser and maybe make the banging noise you are experiencing.

If this is the case DO NOT take the pieces out! If they are all still hanging on the thin post (see the diagram), then you can take a pair of bent needle nose pliers (needle nose pliers with a 90 degree bend at the end) to try and reach behind the backing plate and pull it forward, compressing the spring, and rotate the backing plate tab back into place in the hole on the e-brake pad.

Again, it's a stretch. Good luck.



I get it that you will have to pull the caliper, caliper frame and the rotor again, but I can't think of any other reason.

I am with Midwest on this. Since you stated that you still have the noise when the caliper is removed, it pretty much eliminates the possibility of loose pads clunking. I had a similar problem with the wifes X5, and that is what it turned out to be. The X5 uses a slightly different method of holding the parking brake shoes in place, they use a pin/spring combo, but the pin locks into the backing plate. On hers, one of the locking holes in the backing plate had rusted and would no longer lock the pin in place. So, because the shoes could move around inside the drum, when you switched direction, the shoes would move with the drum rotation, and clunk against the shoe anchor and make noise. I had to replace the backing plate, and noise went away.

So, as Midwest suggests, I would check both the retaining pin/spring sets for the shoes. Also, check both of the tension springs (top and botom) that hold the two shoes together. And, just to be sure, remember that when the wheel isn't mounted to the hub, there is some play between the rotor and the wheel studs on the hub. When you reverse the rotation direction, you might be hearing the rotor shifting on the hub. You can use two lug nuts with some large nuts or spacer washers to lock the rotor down on the hub when the wheel isn't in place to eliminate that play.

 

[Bftfan]

UPDATE:

Today I put the rear up on jackstands and caaaaarefully run it reverse to verify the problem is still there. Yup. Took off the caliper & mounting bracket and run it again and still hear it so it's not the pard or caliper. First I saw the run-out for the rotor was CRAP as it wobbled all over the place. Pulled it off and onto a buddy's bench lathe with a dial indicator and yup, run-out on a brand new AAP Wearever rotor was outta specs right out of the box. Grrrr.. After much hassle at the store (AAP parts online must be exchanged online...&#$%@$) I got it replaced. This totally fixed the scraping sound going forward (backing place?) but I still have the CLUNK in reverse. I swear it's right at the top of the inside of the rotor hat so I'm pretty sure it's the e-Brake but can't find out what's wrong. Everything looks to be there & in place and it's backed off a lot and it's still clunking. I have to take to my mechanic for NY State's annual inspection so I'll see if he can see anything out of whack somethere. Crap... I wanted to fix it myself, especially at $90/hr!

:crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:

 

[TechWrench]

UPDATE:

Today I put the rear up on jackstands and caaaaarefully run it reverse to verify the problem is still there. Yup. Took off the caliper & mounting bracket and run it again and still hear it so it's not the pard or caliper. First I saw the run-out for the rotor was CRAP as it wobbled all over the place. Pulled it off and onto a buddy's bench lathe with a dial indicator and yup, run-out on a brand new AAP Wearever rotor was outta specs right out of the box. Grrrr.. After much hassle at the store (AAP parts online must be exchanged online...&#$%@$) I got it replaced. This totally fixed the scraping sound going forward (backing place?) but I still have the CLUNK in reverse. I swear it's right at the top of the inside of the rotor hat so I'm pretty sure it's the e-Brake but can't find out what's wrong. Everything looks to be there & in place and it's backed off a lot and it's still clunking. I have to take to my mechanic for NY State's annual inspection so I'll see if he can see anything out of whack somethere. Crap... I wanted to fix it myself, especially at $90/hr!

:crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:

If you have time, try removing the caliper, mounting bracket, and rotor, and then turning just the hub. If the noise goes away, then it pretty much has to be the parking brake system. If not, then maybe you have a bad axle bearing, or excess play in the differential area.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Hmmm...I'll have to look at the dust shield more closely and see if it's contacting the wheel/rim in any way.


Blackworks, not sure what you mean. Do you mean spin the axle with the rotor off to see if it's out of round?

.

That's what I meant, to see if the axle was tweaked in any way.

Sounds like you found the rotor was out of round though, happens rarely.

Still wracking my brain trying to figure out what the clunk could be, wish i was there to take a look at the vehicle myself. hard to just diagnose it over the net.

 

[Bftfan]

That's what I meant, to see if the axle was tweaked in any way.

Sounds like you found the rotor was out of round though, happens rarely.

Still wracking my brain trying to figure out what the clunk could be, wish i was there to take a look at the vehicle myself. hard to just diagnose it over the net.

Yea, I know what you mean. Still I appreciate the help.

The first rotor had terrible run-out problems, the pads were sliding back & forth in the caliper but were quiet. I returned it and the clunk is still there but the run-out problem & scraping when going forward problem is gone.

To be clear, under power with the rotor & caliper off it's smooth forward & backwards. Put the rotor on, throw some lug nuts on it to snug it down (because the wheel is off) and still leave the caliper off and put it in reverse (all on the jackstands of course) the clunk in returns. Wierdest thing EVER! It's amlost as if you can "hear" it coming from the top of the inside of the rotor hat! WTF?? Yet I pull the rotor and there's no scoring, rubbing or wear marks on the inside of the rotor or e-Brake shoes. *sigh* Wracking my brain...

 

[TechWrench]

Yea, I know what you mean. Still I appreciate the help.

The first rotor had terrible run-out problems, the pads were sliding back & forth in the caliper but were quiet. I returned it and the clunk is still there but the run-out problem & scraping when going forward problem is gone.

To be clear, under power with the rotor & caliper off it's smooth forward & backwards. Put the rotor on, throw some lug nuts on it to snug it down (because the wheel is off) and still leave the caliper off and put it in reverse (all on the jackstands of course) the clunk in returns. Wierdest thing EVER! It's amlost as if you can "hear" it coming from the top of the inside of the rotor hat! WTF?? Yet I pull the rotor and there's no scoring, rubbing or wear marks on the inside of the rotor or e-Brake shoes. *sigh* Wracking my brain...

If the noise isn't there with the rotor off, then it almost certainly has to be the parking brakes. One possibility is the Parking Brake Shoe Strut. It is the flat bar that spans between the front and rear shoes, just above the axle. It is also connected to the Parking Brake Shoe Lever, which the cable uses to actuate the strut and spread the shoes to apply the brake. If this flat bar (strut) isn't seated properly in the slots in both shoes, it might be keeping the shoes separated just enough to create too much clearance between the upper part of the shoes and the anchor post. If there is a gap between the shoes and this anchor, then the shoes will shift back and forth as the direction of rotor rotation is changed, and the shoes will hit against this anchor post causing the clunk. Another thing would be to remove the rotor on the other side, and closely compare the two sides to see if something on the problem side doesn't match the good side. If that seems to be ok, then it mught just be and adjustment issue. I think you said earlier that you had turned the parking brake adjustment all the way down, to retract the shoes. Maybe that is part of the problem, there is too much play and when you switch rotor rotation, the shoes move and cause the clunk. Maybe you could adjust the parking brakes to their 'normal' position, to eliminate any excess play, and see if that has any effect. Other than that, I am at a loss. As BlackWorks said, it is hard to diagnose weird issues like this online.

 

[Bftfan]

If the noise isn't there with the rotor off, then it almost certainly has to be the parking brakes. One possibility is the Parking Brake Shoe Strut. It is the flat bar that spans between the front and rear shoes, just above the axle. It is also connected to the Parking Brake Shoe Lever, which the cable uses to actuate the strut and spread the shoes to apply the brake. If this flat bar (strut) isn't seated properly in the slots in both shoes, it might be keeping the shoes separated just enough to create too much clearance between the upper part of the shoes and the anchor post. If there is a gap between the shoes and this anchor, then the shoes will shift back and forth as the direction of rotor rotation is changed, and the shoes will hit against this anchor post causing the clunk. Another thing would be to remove the rotor on the other side, and closely compare the two sides to see if something on the problem side doesn't match the good side. If that seems to be ok, then it mught just be and adjustment issue. I think you said earlier that you had turned the parking brake adjustment all the way down, to retract the shoes. Maybe that is part of the problem, there is too much play and when you switch rotor rotation, the shoes move and cause the clunk. Maybe you could adjust the parking brakes to their 'normal' position, to eliminate any excess play, and see if that has any effect. Other than that, I am at a loss. As BlackWorks said, it is hard to diagnose weird issues like this online.

TechWrench you bring up some very valid points. I looked over the strut (in red) to ensure it was seated properly and it looked good. The star adjuster (in blue) has the e-brake contracted pretty good so I should back it off a bit to see if the symptoms change. Hope to look at it, or have it looked at, before I go for the NYS inspection this week.

.

 

[anotherrunner83]

It sounds like you are all over the right things, hopefully you get it soon. Just to share a similar experience...
I bought my 08 in 09 as a CPO vehicle. Bought it drove it home and couldn't have been happier. The next day, backing out of the drive, I heard a clunk. Put the truck in drive, drove to work, and nothing. Leaving work, same thing again when backing up. Drove straight back to the dealership with it. I wasn't about to start tearing stuff off of a truck I had owned for a day. They looked at it and sent me on my way. Needless to say, the clunk didn't go away so it went in for service that weekend. The service tech came and found me to personally apologize for whoever had inspected/worked on it before....

The nitwit left out one of the bolts holding the caliper on. The clunk i was hearing was the caliper rotating off of the disc and hitting the wheel. The caliper had scored the wheel pretty heavily around the inner circumference of the wheel. I got a new matching wheel (they tried to swap with an 07 that didn't match first), new rear brakes, and some oil changes out of the deal.

 

[Bftfan]

So I get the NY state inspection today and have no problems there. As for the “clunk” the Toyota service advisor says the parking brake needs adjustment and I tell ‘em I know…I told you that when I dropped it off, remember? They think adjusting the parking brake “might” fix it for me but they’re not sure. Oh and they want $55/side or $110 total to adjust it. Grrrr… So I told them slap the new inspection sticker on my truck and I’ll come and get it later, clunk and all. *sigh* And people wonder why we do as much work as we can all by ourselves.



:crybaby:

 

[84ability]

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead but I'm guessing this is my problem too. Any update on the resolution? My truck clunks when rolling and the slightest bit of pressure on the e-brake pedal makes it go away, been driving slowly with one click applied to get around. I'm guessing MidwestT4R's post was the answer and it doesn't seem like the OP ever tried looking at this specifically? That or something with cable pull within the e-brake mechanism is off.

This might be a stretch, but did you check the retaining springs on your e-brake? These are the springs at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock that hold each of the e-brake shoes in place.

I ask only because I had some clunking and scraping and it turned out that one of the retaining spring's caps had popped off. So the brake shoe was flopping around a bit inside the rotor.

You may also want to go to the online manuals to see the diagram of the e-brake. Because if you do so you will see that these retaining springs have three components. A backing plate, the spring, and then the plate on the front. The back plate is round with a tab on it. In the diagram you will see that all three of these pieces should be on the outside of the brake pad. In other words, the pad frame should be behind these pieces. And there is a tab on the backing plate that fits into a hole on the e-brake pad.

If the tab popped out you may still have all the pieces there but the pad will be much looser and maybe make the banging noise you are experiencing.

If this is the case DO NOT take the pieces out! If they are all still hanging on the thin post (see the diagram), then you can take a pair of bent needle nose pliers (needle nose pliers with a 90 degree bend at the end) to try and reach behind the backing plate and pull it forward, compressing the spring, and rotate the backing plate tab back into place in the hole on the e-brake pad.

Again, it's a stretch. Good luck.



I get it that you will have to pull the caliper, caliper frame and the rotor again, but I can't think of any other reason.