Suspension feedback please (I know, I know...hear me out)

[Terrapod]

Hey All,

I have read thread upon thread upon thread regarding suspension upgrades for our 4runners. Yet...my situation is slightly unique.

I have a 1200-1400# Off road trailer that I built. I wish to tow it across the country on various remote trails, etc.
I am trying to decide what suspension will be the best middle-ground decision.

Options found so far:

1 - Toytec Boss Suspension (the lower option with the 2.0 shocks)
2 - Toytec Boss Performance Suspension (the option with the 2.5 shocks)
3 - Stage 1 Icon Suspension
4 - Stage 2 Icon Suspension with UCA's included
5 - Other options???

All other options will either be the JBA or LC UCA's.

Things to keep in mind - 80% of my use will be daily driving. The rest of the miles will be for 1-2 long exploring trips per year.

Tongue weight is 150 to 220# loaded. Trailer has brakes and will top out at 1400# loaded. I do not anticipate on having any major loads in the cargo area other than clothes and some light gear. Everything else is in the trailer.

Trails - I will NOT be doing any crazy high speed desert runs. And...I will try to avoid deep mud and heavy rock crawling. However, some rock will be there.

FWIW - I do presently have 5100's all around on stock springs with an 1/2" OME spacer in the rear. Nice little..."got me started" lift, but more is obvisouly needed with rear weight, etc.

So with this all in the blender...where the hell do I start?


Said trailer:

 

[Toffees]

Hey All,

I have read thread upon thread upon thread regarding suspension upgrades for our 4runners. Yet...my situation is slightly unique.

I have a 1200-1400# Off road trailer that I built. I wish to tow it across the country on various remote trails, etc.
I am trying to decide what suspension will be the best middle-ground decision.

Options found so far:

1 - Toytec Boss Suspension (the lower option with the 2.0 shocks)
2 - Toytec Boss Performance Suspension (the option with the 2.5 shocks)
3 - Stage 1 Icon Suspension
4 - Stage 2 Icon Suspension with UCA's included
5 - Other options???

All other options will either be the JBA or LC UCA's.

Things to keep in mind - 80% of my use will be daily driving. The rest of the miles will be for 1-2 long exploring trips per year.

Tongue weight is 150 to 220# loaded. Trailer has brakes and will top out at 1400# loaded. I do not anticipate on having any major loads in the cargo area other than clothes and some light gear. Everything else is in the trailer.

Trails - I will NOT be doing any crazy high speed desert runs. And...I will try to avoid deep mud and heavy rock crawling. However, some rock will be there.

FWIW - I do presently have 5100's all around on stock springs with an 1/2" OME spacer in the rear. Nice little..."got me started" lift, but more is obvisouly needed with rear weight, etc.

So with this all in the blender...where the hell do I start?


Said trailer:

Do you want more lift or just to handle the tongue weight of the trailer? Would airbags do the trick?

How do you like your trailer?

 

[Terrapod]

Do you want more lift or just to handle the tongue weight of the trailer? Would airbags do the trick?

How do you like your trailer?

More lift / more capable suspension for the trails as well as rear spring to handle the extra load. Had airbags on past rigs. Didn't like them on the trail. Over a period of 2 years, I ended up puncturing one of the bags. No bueno.

Love the trailer. But I am biased, cuz I built it. :thumb3:

 

[Toffees]

More lift / more capable suspension for the trails as well as rear spring to handle the extra load. Had airbags on past rigs. Didn't like them on the trail. Over a period of 2 years, I ended up puncturing one of the bags. No bueno.

Love the trailer. But I am biased, cuz I built it. :thumb3:

Nice. I'm interested in such, but I think the price of most is taking me out of the market. But I'll not derail your thread for that, maybe we'll meet in a different thread.

 

[Terrapod]

Bueller?

 

[3wbdriver]

I'm running about 800 extra pounds of armor and gear on my 5100's with no problems, so I don't really think you need shocks. Unless you just want an upgrade there. I am running heavier springs to offset the extra weight. OME 885's in the front and currently Toytec +10% Superflex 2" rears. But I did get a pair of Dobinson's C59-327 2" rear springs to offset the added weight of the CBI bumper and gear that normally rides in the back. You might look at the specs for their springs on page 1 of that thread. Nice looking trailer by the way.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...-4runner-suspension-options-lots-choices.html

 

[CRSTX]

Why not keep the 5100s with the fronts set at 0 and buy some dobinson or OME coils? That would only be around $800-900 with uca's.

 

[tristero]

My experience: I have had Toytec setup in front for almost 3 years next month. I will say that I loved it at first compared to the stock suspension. I could also say it got me to plenty of places and created great memories. In the end every part of the setup has failed dramatically over time.

My truck is currently down with a new front setup on the way. Drivers side is unbelievably stiff compared the the passenger side. Lower bushings are failing, and in turn making the LCA mounting point all wonky. LCA bushings are failing as well but I can't contribute that to Toytec or Bilstein other than I don't think their kits should ever be used for any kind of heavy usage.

Rear only lasted about a year and half before the piston seized and upper bushings pancaked. First my passenger side, then driver side about 3 months later.

My experience is vastly different from some other people who run a similar setup without issues. Maybe the QC guy was out when they shipped my setup. FWIW I had similar issues on my 1st gen Tacoma re: bilstein shocks and that truck was likely ~1400 lbs lighter with the camper shell on.

I haven't had a good experience with Icon either. One of my rear shocks started leaking oil at the seal before it ever saw a real trail. It was replaced, and so far no more issues, but I plan to replace asap.

 

[atchcraft]

I tow a similar, but much uglier, trailer with mine and I run Icon. Honestly, I think any of the lift options will all be about the same, relitive to towing a trailer. unless you add a bumper, drawers, fridge and other crap in the back of the 4Runner, cans, etc. you most likely won’t even need an “over-load” spring. I run a heavy spring in the rear, but I’m pretty loaded down.

 

[Terrapod]

My experience: I have had Toytec setup in front for almost 3 years next month. I will say that I loved it at first compared to the stock suspension. I could also say it got me to plenty of places and created great memories. In the end every part of the setup has failed dramatically over time.

My truck is currently down with a new front setup on the way. Drivers side is unbelievably stiff compared the the passenger side. Lower bushings are failing, and in turn making the LCA mounting point all wonky. LCA bushings are failing as well but I can't contribute that to Toytec or Bilstein other than I don't think their kits should ever be used for any kind of heavy usage.

Rear only lasted about a year and half before the piston seized and upper bushings pancaked. First my passenger side, then driver side about 3 months later.

My experience is vastly different from some other people who run a similar setup without issues. Maybe the QC guy was out when they shipped my setup. FWIW I had similar issues on my 1st gen Tacoma re: bilstein shocks and that truck was likely ~1400 lbs lighter with the camper shell on.

I haven't had a good experience with Icon either. One of my rear shocks started leaking oil at the seal before it ever saw a real trail. It was replaced, and so far no more issues, but I plan to replace asap.

Sorry for your luck. That said, I am a big believer in the KISS method. Maybe an tried and true OME suspension (not the BP51) would be the way to go.

My preference it to upgrade from the stock springs and improve on-road manners and off-road capability.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Terrapod]

I tow a similar, but much uglier, trailer with mine and I run Icon. Honestly, I think any of the lift options will all be about the same, relitive to towing a trailer. unless you add a bumper, drawers, fridge and other crap in the back of the 4Runner, cans, etc. you most likely won’t even need an “over-load” spring. I run a heavy spring in the rear, but I’m pretty loaded down.

I was thinking a med-duty OME spring might do the trick. The Heavy load is a bit of overkill, IMO. Total extra weight in the back would likely not be over 250#, including tongue and gear weight.

 

[atchcraft]

I was thinking a med-duty OME spring might do the trick. The Heavy load is a bit of overkill, IMO. Total extra weight in the back would likely not be over 250#, including tongue and gear weight.

I would think so. Even when I’m completely unloaded, the ride is just fine, IMO, and having the extra spring is nice on a fully loaded trip.

 

[DesertCanyons]

Suspension for towing

I like your trailer a lot. I remember seeing it a short while back and admiring your work.

The tongue weight should be about 10% of the total weight, or 140# max. If you say it's 200#, so be it. That should not hamper the ride of the 4Runner, which is rated for about 5000 pounds towing capacity, IIRC. That could be 500# of tongue weight.

FYI, I'm adding the ICON tubular Stage 7 lift this weekend. I wanted all the adjustable link arms that come with this package to keep the back axle where it belongs. I've just replaced the tires with LT285/70R17 on 17x8.5" wheels. I need more lift to clear these big tires. We also want to get a teardrop trailer for comfort, ease of camp set-up and convenience when camping. The only thing I might do to increase towing capacity is to add air bags, but you already know about those.

The reason to do a lift is first, to add larger tires for increased ground clearance. Larger tires are the only thing that will increase the clearance of the differential and axle. You need the lift to add larger tires. The other reason for taller suspension is to lift the frame, trans, gas tank, transfer case, engine, exhaust and everything attached to the frame a little farther off the ground. I find that in my desert exploring at slow to reasonable speeds and careful driving the skid plates still hit rocks on dirt roads. I've mangled the stock front skid plate from all the rocks I've hit.

I'll be installing the lift this Saturday. If anyone in So Cal is interested in seeing how it's done and helping a little, send me an email and come by.
[email protected]
Dave

 

[Terrapod]

Thanks for the input and kudos, Dave. It is much appreciated. :hatsoff:

All the reasons mentioned are completely understood. Larger tires are indeed next on the list. I am likely heading for 275's. It's a nice middle-ground tire for my needs.

While some have mentioned keeping the 5100's, I like the ability to adjust as needed. I had Radflo's on my old Xterra and loved them. The ride on and off road was excellent. But there is one looming question - do I really want to teardown my suspension and get everything rebuilt every 15-20K miles?

I am leaning towards a big "NO."

The solution I am looking for is robust, great on road and off, can handle the extra load in the back and is not a maintenance hog.

Does this exist?

 

[MossJenks]

Thanks for the input and kudos, Dave. It is much appreciated. :hatsoff:

All the reasons mentioned are completely understood. Larger tires are indeed next on the list. I am likely heading for 275's. It's a nice middle-ground tire for my needs.

While some have mentioned keeping the 5100's, I like the ability to adjust as needed. I had Radflo's on my old Xterra and loved them. The ride on and off road was excellent. But there is one looming question - do I really want to teardown my suspension and get everything rebuilt every 15-20K miles?

I am leaning towards a big "NO."

The solution I am looking for is robust, great on road and off, can handle the extra load in the back and is not a maintenance hog.

Does this exist?

Yeah. OME and Dobinson's to name a couple. Both have a range of spring rates.You can call Dobinson's directly and they'll listen to your needs and recommend springs and shocks accordingly. One of their reps is a 5th gen driver and an active member here.