Suspension issues, need some input

ARK_SWAMP_RIDER

ARK_SWAMP_RIDER

New member
As many of you know, I've got a 03 Limited with the factory rear air suspension. Last week I swapped the stock XREAS (150k miles) out for Bilstein 5100 fronts and Bilstein HD rears. I chose the HD rears because they are stock length, which is needed for the OEM rear air system. Also, based on numbers from this thread, the valve rates are identical to the rear 5100's so it should have been a good match. However, the rear of my 4runner rides horrible, much worse than before. I've rode along in a 4runner with the 5100's all around, loved it. I'm just not sure why my setup didn't work out. Even the slightest bump jars you around, and if there's a few small bumps in a row, you better hold on tight cause it'll jump all over the place. I had messed with the air bags to gain some lift, but I had done this several months before the swap and everything was fine, so I don't think it is that. I'm going to be replacing the HD rears, just unsure what to replace with. I was thinking 5100's, but they are very hard to find and I'm afraid with the same valve rates there will be little improvement. I'm thinking right now KYB GR2's or maybe stock FJ Bilstein's. Any thoughts?
 
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imo, the rear 5100 r most likely very close to the HDs, the fj bilsteins & kybs may or may not be ok, but how about this, maybe u can pickup a set of rear OEM Tokicos cheaply, they're fairly soft & since they're OEM at least u have a good idea of how they ride on the 4r.
 
Why would the 5100 not work with the airbags?
They're recommended for 0-2.5" of lift.

I don't know if it's true, but I've read that the TRD Bilsteins are almost the same as the HDs. How about the Icon rear shocks?

If you want Tokico's I have a set I'll part with :)
 
Hmm, I have a set of 5100s on my rear & I think they ride great! Hate to hear the HDs didn't work out as you had hoped. And like gaterose said, the rear 5100s should work fine with your rear airbags. They accommodate (they themselves don't actually provide) 0-2.5" of lift.
 
maybe put 5100 rears in and get rid of the airbags if you don't tow often because you know how that would ride? :)
 
Have you looked at Rancho shocks?

If you get RS9000XLs you can dial in the firmness. I had some on my Z71 and they were pretty nice. The only reason I changed them was because they didn't have an application for the 2" front lift I had
 
Give it 500 to 1K miles. My rear shocks (Bilstein F4-BE5-C514) were a little harsh at first, and it was only at speed humps and potholes. The jarring feel went away. Highway ride is smooth eversince, and even with heavy cargo in long trips, i did not experience shock fade.

IMO there is little to NO difference in valving of the 5100s and other Bilstein OEM Toyota shocks. The 5100s are just designed to accomodate lift like taller rear spring or spacers. Other than its stainless, I think it will be same ride.

OEM Shocks :
The orange Bilstein in the FJC, yellow Bilsteins in Tacomas and the OEM Bilsteins in the 4th Gen 09 4Runner trail, again I think they are valved the same as the aftermarket version which is the Bilstein HDs.

Many reviewers acquired those shocks(FJC orange), which already have miles on them so they didn't feel when it were new(0 miles - break in period)

I would take into consideration also that most of us who upgrade/replaced shocks and other components don't have the rear air suspension. I don't know if it matters.

Sure it will be different if replaced by KYB GROs and other brands. Monroe sensatrac have good reviews also. But I'm hesitant in those brands and no reviews I can find in Toyota trucks.

Should you replace them,I vote for a used FJC orange Bilsteins. Used, so you'll bypass the breakin period, or just give your HDs a few more miles. A long distance trip maybe...

sorry as it didn't feel as expected.

Here's other Bilstein HD installation : http://www.toyota-4runner.org/gallery/62359-norcal-2004-4runner-2.html
 
hey can somebody post up some pics of the limiteds rear suspension please...mainly whatever it is holding the truck up...thanks.
 
Im on my phone so this will be short. If the shocks extend further than oem it will pop the air bags. I bought the hd shocks used with approximately 1k miles. I've also put over 500 miles on it and its only getting worse. I can try the fj tokicos, should be able to find a set easily. I like the idea of those ranchos, ill have to look at them. I've not heard much on them, love the idea. I'm keeping the oem air setup, at least till it stops working.
 
ARK_SWAMP_RIDER said:
Im on my phone so this will be short. If the shocks extend further than oem it will pop the air bags. I bought the hd shocks used with approximately 1k miles. I've also put over 500 miles on it and its only getting worse. I can try the fj tokicos, should be able to find a set easily. I like the idea of those ranchos, ill have to look at them. I've not heard much on them, love the idea. I'm keeping the oem air setup, at least till it stops working.
Click to expand...
Dude can u send me a pic of that setup.. the air bags...plzz ...thnx
 
There are two sensors, one on each side of the rear axle, that control height. It automatically adjusts as needed to keep the rear at a certain level. I also have an in cab switch you can use to adjust to a low or high setting (only if you're under a certain mph, ~10 mph I think before it resets to the normal position). There is an on board compressor used for adding air, and valves to release. Very nice for towing/loading down. I love the system, just never expected that it'd cause this much grief.

I'm thinking about giving the FJ Tokico's a shot as they're the cheapest (might snag a set for free). However, those Rancho's have really caught my eye. I'm gonna have to do more research on them, I really like the adjust-ability they offer. I feel like no shock will be perfect as my application is unique. However, the 9500xl's will allow me to adjust and hopefully find a nice median. I can get them for about $180 shipped, same as 5100's, so I'm really thinking about getting those. Tuesday will be pay day, I might just bite the bullet.

I've known other's who've swapped to 5100's with the OEM air suspension and had no complaints. I would almost say a guy ripped me off when telling me the mileage on the shocks, but they were in absolute mint condition. It doesn't seem like it's worth it to swap to any other Bilstein shock, whether it's 5100's or OEM FJ's.

I plan to do something soon, it's bad enough I'm taking a 30 minute detour on trips just to avoid taking the interstate. I'm also getting some shaking, I'm going to take it in tomorrow for an alignment and have the shop look it over (probably need tires/wheels balanced). I did the lift about a week and a half ago, hadn't had time to do an alignment. I've been traveling much more than typical lately, and it's definitely making me wish I still had a leaky XREAS system in there.

I will say this, the front is great. If I can get the rear smoothened out, I'll be a happy camper. One thing I see is that Rancho offers a trial period. I'm gonna look into the details, but I might be able to give them a shot and if it doesn't work out, send them back. I'm almost tempted to order their fronts as well and ditch the 5100's, but probably won't.

Thanks for the input guys.
 
If you do get the rancho full set it's worth getting the remote ride control!

I had it in my Z and with the push of a button in the cab I could go from stiff on road & corners to soft and supple for soaking up dirt roads in no time. There is a huge difference between setting 1 & 9 in terms of stiffness.

Pro comp offers a similar shock in its MX6 with knob adjustability, no remote kit.

I don't have experience with the pro comps, but Rancho is good people. I broke two front shocks (because my front was lifted too high for the travel) two separate times and they sent me replacements (newer models too, RS9000->RS9000x->RS9000xl) for free both times with no questions asked. Told me to throw the old shocks away.
 
ARK_SWAMP_RIDER said:
There are two sensors, one on each side of the rear axle, that control height. It automatically adjusts as needed to keep the rear at a certain level. I also have an in cab switch you can use to adjust to a low or high setting (only if you're under a certain mph, ~10 mph I think before it resets to the normal position). There is an on board compressor used for adding air, and valves to release. Very nice for towing/loading down. I love the system, just never expected that it'd cause this much grief.

I'm thinking about giving the FJ Tokico's a shot as they're the cheapest (might snag a set for free). However, those Rancho's have really caught my eye. I'm gonna have to do more research on them, I really like the adjust-ability they offer. I feel like no shock will be perfect as my application is unique. However, the 9500xl's will allow me to adjust and hopefully find a nice median. I can get them for about $180 shipped, same as 5100's, so I'm really thinking about getting those. Tuesday will be pay day, I might just bite the bullet.

I've known other's who've swapped to 5100's with the OEM air suspension and had no complaints. I would almost say a guy ripped me off when telling me the mileage on the shocks, but they were in absolute mint condition. It doesn't seem like it's worth it to swap to any other Bilstein shock, whether it's 5100's or OEM FJ's.

I plan to do something soon, it's bad enough I'm taking a 30 minute detour on trips just to avoid taking the interstate. I'm also getting some shaking, I'm going to take it in tomorrow for an alignment and have the shop look it over (probably need tires/wheels balanced). I did the lift about a week and a half ago, hadn't had time to do an alignment. I've been traveling much more than typical lately, and it's definitely making me wish I still had a leaky XREAS system in there.

I will say this, the front is great. If I can get the rear smoothened out, I'll be a happy camper. One thing I see is that Rancho offers a trial period. I'm gonna look into the details, but I might be able to give them a shot and if it doesn't work out, send them back. I'm almost tempted to order their fronts as well and ditch the 5100's, but probably won't.

Thanks for the input guys.
Click to expand...

Hmmm well I'm working on lowering maybe that's what I need the limiteds rear suspension without the sensors....hmmmmmm...intresting
 
Whitebeauty, there's way too much involved to consider adding it on. Buy a set of lowering springs and be done.

Gaterose, you seem happy with them. How hard is it to manually adjust? I'd do that at first, possibly add the controller later on. The one controller would work for both front/rear correct? I just found out I can get a steal of a deal on a full set of the rs9000xl's. As much as I love the Bilstein's, I'm very tempted to go this route simply for the adjustment. I guess my concern is soft may not be soft enough or still may not be still enough. Really sounds like a good option. As this isn't made to lift the vehicle, I'd have to go back to a spacer lift, but that's not a big deal for me.
 
ARK_SWAMP_RIDER said:
Whitebeauty, there's way too much involved to consider adding it on. Buy a set of lowering springs and be done.

Gaterose, you seem happy with them. How hard is it to manually adjust? I'd do that at first, possibly add the controller later on. The one controller would work for both front/rear correct? I just found out I can get a steal of a deal on a full set of the rs9000xl's. As much as I love the Bilstein's, I'm very tempted to go this route simply for the adjustment. I guess my concern is soft may not be soft enough or still may not be still enough. Really sounds like a good option. As this isn't made to lift the vehicle, I'd have to go back to a spacer lift, but that's not a big deal for me.
Click to expand...

There too much bud...I can innovate for less than that......n its workin out ok so far....but
Will keep it in mind . Thanks
 
If you were considering a swap to the air suspension, lowering springs are very cheap in comparison. That's all I'm saying.

Gaterose,
I read up on that controller and answered the above questions. I'm going to call and confirm, but I think I can get a full set of 9000xl's for $220 (after rebate). Only thing is that Rancho doesn't show the 9000xl fronts on their site, so I plan to call them and verify part numbers. Payday is Tuesday, I'm ready. Not looking forward to the install, but will figure something out.
 
Yeah I was really happy with them, with their service and impressed with the adjustability. I was going to put it on the 4R (cuz they had the remote kit free when I bought my bilsteins) but at the time they didn't include springs and I didn't want to lift as much as the rancho+FJ springs would. I really hated switching to Bilsteins in the Z but they never released a 2" lift shock and I busted the 0" & 4" lift models. Not that bilsteins are bad, I just loved being able to go from a stiff street shock to a supple dirt shock in no time.

When I got mine for the Z I bought the remote kit too, so I never had to adjust them manually. I don't think I would've adjusted them often without the kit though because you have to access the knob on the side of the shock. I feel like without the remote I would've played with it til I got a good mix of on & off road then never touched them again. I don't think it's too bad but I'm not big on crawling under my truck before & after leaving the pavement.

From the picture on their website it looks like it would be in front of the wheel. Yeah the controller adjusts the front and rear individually.

I have bilstein 5100s on my Z now, I would say they're somewhere between 7-8 setting (even though they supposedly "automatically adjust to differing terrain").

1 is really soft, when I had them if I rocked the wheel back and forth (at about 45 mph) the cab would rock from side to side like crazy but set to 9 with the same rocking the cab would just barely tilt. I used to do that a lot to demonstrate them to friends.

Not the best description, but that's how I used to show my friends what the three buttons and the gauges on the dash did (the old ride control kit wasn't wireless & digital).
 
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