I think your truck looks great! And it probably handles off road stuff just fine. I think most of the mods we do are not out of need but rather want, so I understand why you posted the question. BTW, I really like your grille and lower valance black out....mind sharing the details about what exactly you did to it?
Suspension Recommendations, NEEDED!!!
- Thread starter LowCountrySilverTP
- Start date
I think your truck looks great! And it probably handles off road stuff just fine. I think most of the mods we do are not out of need but rather want, so I understand why you posted the question. BTW, I really like your grille and lower valance black out....mind sharing the details about what exactly you did to it?
LowCountrySilverTP
New member
Definitely a possibility! I've heard a lot of people that like the 5100.
LowCountrySilverTP
New member
Thanks bud, I like the look too! I have heard that getting a suspension will make the ride much better though so I guess that's what I was thinking. I will eventually upgrade it. As far as my grille is concerned... I had originally plasti dipped both the lower valance and grille part and put a black Toyota overlay over the front emblem. I hated how the plasti dip looked after a few weeks so I ordered the TRD pro lower valance and will eventually order the TRD pro grille.
I attempted to post a picture of my grille now, but it's acting up. I'll post one of how I have it now tomorrow.
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sn_85
Senior Member
Not sure how you took my comments the wrong way, I thought it was just honest advice...? Sorry for not sugar coating things. Point is still true, you don't need anything to wheel with a 4Runner. It's plenty capable in stock form. Just look at MTN4RNR's thread and what trails he goes on with the stock suspension. If you wait for parts to wheel, you'll be waiting forever. Likewise if you wait until you move to the west, you'll be waiting forever as well. And that's if you move, things always change. So why not just go off-roading now instead of waiting for parts or life to happen?
I don't know much about off-roading in South Carolina. Why don't you PM CharlestonFisher. He seems to wheel a ton and he's from Charleston. There might not be much local but sometimes you have to drive to a destination and that's part of the fun. I'm pretty there's lots in TN, GA, NC.
If you want an answer then just get the Toytec Ultimate. In your use case that's probably the best combination of looks, capability, ride, and cost.
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Teamoatmealpie
New member
Get a Toytech Ultimate or a Boss. I have the Boss and the ride on and offroad is very good.
If you want new suspension I say do it. Life is meant to be lived.
If you want new suspension I say do it. Life is meant to be lived.
billnourse
New member
I run a ToyTec Ultimate with Bilstein 5100's set at about 2.5". No alignment problems, satisfactory ride and I have 12.5" clearance from the front skid plate to the ground.
Bill
Bill
My apologies if someone hit this before; however, I'd like to throw in my 2 cents. I know it didn't make your list but you really should look at a KING setup. I have a limited and wanted to ensure a great ride removing XREAS which it delivered 100% and I'm not going to toss junk into a daily driver. Furthermore, the Kings have remote reservoirs which really can take a beating, give you the ability to tune (if you want adjustable reservoirs), look cool, and are rebuildable if you plan on keeping your rig for the long haul. The fronts are coil overs which again let you adjust should 5 weeks after install you settle a little, give it another turn. Plus you can adjust for that "Toyota lean" on the driver side. While comparable to the ICON setup, I debated the exact same. They would be pushing the upper limits of your budget as you'd need the full setup of Kings, new rear Springs (I went ICON), and UCAs to get things in camber assuming you don't already have one. I'd recommend staying ICON or King. I did have Toytec's in my tundra before the 4Runner and for my personal preferences either the spring rates were too stiff or the rebound was too harsh which I've heard the same about OMEs. I have a good friend with over 70k miles on his Landcruiser running Kings and he tried OMEs beforehand and that was his feedback. Now please no one hate on me I'm just giving my 2 cents here.
I wish you the best in your decision and I'm sure people on here have had every combination under the sun! :madgrin:
I put these up front (they aren't included in any toytec kits)!ToyTec BOSS 2.5 Series Adjustable Front coil over shocks
With 650lb springs and TC UCA's. Rear are bilsteins with a 2" lift (3" front)
I'm very happy with my setup. I am not building my rig to be a rock crawler but I want it to be capable if I get in sticky situations.
I'm just wrapping up what's been about an 8,000 mile cross country trip. The first 6,000 miles I could've done with a van and airstream. The last 2,000 I've been VERY happy with my 4Runner/M416 trailer and all it's mods. I went down a big chunk of the continental divide and to some trails around Ouray that I couldn't have done in many lesser vehicles.
I'm building my 4runner to be primarily a cross country expedition type rig first, and an Off Road beast second. I don't need ALL the bells and whistles for Off Road, but I want a great set of reliable basics so I can enjoy some of the top scenic trails I couldn't do otherwise.
With 650lb springs and TC UCA's. Rear are bilsteins with a 2" lift (3" front)
I'm very happy with my setup. I am not building my rig to be a rock crawler but I want it to be capable if I get in sticky situations.
I'm just wrapping up what's been about an 8,000 mile cross country trip. The first 6,000 miles I could've done with a van and airstream. The last 2,000 I've been VERY happy with my 4Runner/M416 trailer and all it's mods. I went down a big chunk of the continental divide and to some trails around Ouray that I couldn't have done in many lesser vehicles.
I'm building my 4runner to be primarily a cross country expedition type rig first, and an Off Road beast second. I don't need ALL the bells and whistles for Off Road, but I want a great set of reliable basics so I can enjoy some of the top scenic trails I couldn't do otherwise.
wfo9
New member
Let me attempt to clarify one thing. I see a lot of people commenting and saying things like.. I don't need my truck to be a rock crawler.... so X suspension will be fine for me. I want it to be more capable, but I don't need to spend for what I don't need.....
In terms of rock crawling. The only thing about a suspension that will make these trucks more capable is travel (mainly down travel.. more up travel is really only beneficial at speed) . That is basically all that matters, so higher end suspensions do not make your truck a more capable rock crawler unless they add more usable travel. For the rear.. more travel is pretty easy, You just need longer shocks and springs (usually dual rate) since the links can provide quite a bit and the solid axle articulates pretty well. For the front, the IFS has many travel limits built in with the CVs and steering. All you can really get is something called extended travel coil overs. That adds about an inch of down travel compared to most aftermarket suspensions. If you want significantly more you have to change all the control arms.. and go full mid/long travel.
So. if you are going to buy a high end suspension for these trucks.. The benefit will be on the road and off-road at speed. The difference in these conditions is where the high end stuff shines and makes it totally worth the investment in my opinion.
In terms of high end... (Pure opinion here.. Take it for what that is worth). I still think the best choice for 5th gens is ICON. And that is not because I have it... I'm actually moving to Kings with my front long travel. It's just that ICON matches what most people do in these trucks the best. The road manners are simply better than anything else I have experienced (unless you have KDSS) at that point I think King or Fox may be a better choice since the KDSS is already a bit on the stiff side on uneven terrain. I still have not experienced all the available suspensions... So there could be better stuff for the money..., but I have at least ridden in most of them and owned several.
In the end... you get used to whatever you have. It's like living in a small vs a large house.. You will mentally adjust and just about anything will do as there is simply not a big difference in capability for 90% of what most people do. The only time you will really get beat up is offroad at speed and you can always slow just down LOL
But the feeling of floating along is pretty sweet and well worth the investment in my opinion. Only thing that gets tricky is the swaybars really hurt this feeling... So if you want to fly offroad.. You really need to figure out a way to take them out of the equation to get the full benefit. This requires sacrifices when back on the road... In the end.. it is always compromises for your primary vs secondary use case. Can't have it all unless you spend a ton of money and do a lot of custom work (won't even get into that here)
In terms of rock crawling. The only thing about a suspension that will make these trucks more capable is travel (mainly down travel.. more up travel is really only beneficial at speed) . That is basically all that matters, so higher end suspensions do not make your truck a more capable rock crawler unless they add more usable travel. For the rear.. more travel is pretty easy, You just need longer shocks and springs (usually dual rate) since the links can provide quite a bit and the solid axle articulates pretty well. For the front, the IFS has many travel limits built in with the CVs and steering. All you can really get is something called extended travel coil overs. That adds about an inch of down travel compared to most aftermarket suspensions. If you want significantly more you have to change all the control arms.. and go full mid/long travel.
So. if you are going to buy a high end suspension for these trucks.. The benefit will be on the road and off-road at speed. The difference in these conditions is where the high end stuff shines and makes it totally worth the investment in my opinion.
In terms of high end... (Pure opinion here.. Take it for what that is worth). I still think the best choice for 5th gens is ICON. And that is not because I have it... I'm actually moving to Kings with my front long travel. It's just that ICON matches what most people do in these trucks the best. The road manners are simply better than anything else I have experienced (unless you have KDSS) at that point I think King or Fox may be a better choice since the KDSS is already a bit on the stiff side on uneven terrain. I still have not experienced all the available suspensions... So there could be better stuff for the money..., but I have at least ridden in most of them and owned several.
In the end... you get used to whatever you have. It's like living in a small vs a large house.. You will mentally adjust and just about anything will do as there is simply not a big difference in capability for 90% of what most people do. The only time you will really get beat up is offroad at speed and you can always slow just down LOL
But the feeling of floating along is pretty sweet and well worth the investment in my opinion. Only thing that gets tricky is the swaybars really hurt this feeling... So if you want to fly offroad.. You really need to figure out a way to take them out of the equation to get the full benefit. This requires sacrifices when back on the road... In the end.. it is always compromises for your primary vs secondary use case. Can't have it all unless you spend a ton of money and do a lot of custom work (won't even get into that here)
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You're correct and obviously addressing my comment of "not building a rock crawler." I fully agree and understand with everything you just said.
That being said - I guess it just gets misleading sometimes when you see all these guys with $5k+ suspension and the only pics they ever post or anything they ever talk about is basically rock crawling. Which, according to your post and what I agree with, could likely have the same potential with a $1500 system.
I have no doubt that plenty of members take advantage of their $5000+ suspension, especially on road stuff, but maybe even that is overkill?
As mentioned above, when I was tearing through 1000ish miles of the continental divide - off road very rough dirt, gravel, with major washes and other things (while pulling an off road trailer), my high end front shocks really made a difference (need to upgrade rear to a higher end). When Lawndart went to Baja, his suspension was ideal.
It just seems like 99% of what is talked about on here is rock crawling. Other than Lawndart, I don't recall anyone else talking about "ripping down washed up shitty dirt/gravel roads at 50+ mph for hundreds of miles a day."
MossJenks
New member
It is very misleading. If you really start looking at these threads, a lot of the people buying the really expensive suspension systems are buying them.....well, I don't know why - one-upsmanship or something I guess. When they get questioned about the wisdom of buying something like that they often respond with something childish like "I'm a grown man and I can spend my money on whatever I want". They've got a lot of disposable income and just want to throw money around. You see these systems mostly on brand new mall crawlers and rarely on beat up 250k mile trail trucks which are the best kind - something you don't mind scraping on rocks and running into trees. Most of what people seem to call "rock crawling" around here is just 4-wheeling anyway.
If you really want to build a rock crawler start with a crawl box and lockers. Then add some tall springs and really big tires and pair them with whatever shocks - Ranchos or whatever. Real rock crawling takes place at near-zero speed so the shocks really don't factor in much as long as they keep your springs from bouncing all over the place. Replace the bumpers with high approach angle models or just ditch them altogether. If you really want to get serious do a SAS but really if rock crawling is what you want to do you're better off starting with an early 1st gen 'Runner or an '80s pickup - or build/buy a tube frame buggy if you're REALLY serious about it. Wiz-bang adjustable dampers with remote reservoirs and everything don't help at all.
On road - I've had some really great handling sportscars and have never spent anything remotely like $5000 on the suspension. For a 4Runner that doesn't go off-road what you really want is a stock-height suspension, perhaps some springs with a little higher rate and some good dampers. That's it.
The really big money suspensions only really pay off in two situations: you're dessert racing or you live WAY back in the woods on some nasty barely-maintained road and you need to commute into town for work everyday in a reasonable amount of time and comfort. For 90% of the people on this board stock is way more capability than they need and for 95%+ a sub-$1000 is plenty. There are some benefits with more expensive systems but like most other things, the more you spend the less marginal gains you get per dollar.
So going back to the OP, your requirements are super vague so it's hard to give an intelligent answer. "I might wheel in the future but no way I'm going to beat the hell out of my truck." I have no idea what that means and I have a feeling that you'd consider some of the trails I do in my stock Runner (I am planning on suspension in the very near future though) "beating the sh*t" out of it; I'm working hard on my Colorado pinstripes. It's a seriously capable truck right out of the box and handles some pretty nasty trails with ease and I think will do everything YOU want to do with ease.
edit: oh sorry, LowCountry, somehow I skimmed over your post where you were backing off the idea. I'm pretty sure I'm going with a Dobinson's setup on my truck. 2" front, 1" rear and Dobinsons shocks/struts. Small lift, slightly higher spring rates and firmer dampers. $850.
There are a lot of really good suspension options in the $500 - $1500 price range and if you really use it off the pavement a lot there are some good benefits up to about $2500. Beyond that though like I said 99.99% of people won't see any real benefit other than a lighter wallet and ooohs and aahhs when you go to your local Toyota truck club monthly meeting.
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wfo9
New member
Chill on being so judgmental. You make a lot of assumptions about why people do what they do, it is possible you just don't know their situation or their desires.... or past experience and primary use case.
I'll say one more thing about high vs low end in terms of low speed off-road/rock crawl that I forgot to mention.. The lower end stuff fails much more often when pushed hard.
I have a neat i[ trail rig (sort of like what you mentioned before) and I find myself often trying to decide between buying the good parts (arp studs...) when I'm fixing something, or just go with the lower end budget parts. It comes down to the fact that failures really ruin a good day of fun off-road. When you spend time and money to get to a wheeling spot and something breaks... you just want to kick yourself for saving a hundred bucks here or there. Long story short, the more time I spend off-road the more I lean towards do it once... do it right. I'm not saying that is right for everyone.. just trying to give you some insight on why people might do what they do..
There is no correct answer. Just choices and opinions.
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MossJenks
New member
I'm not saying that nobody is getting this stuff for a good reason but I've been around car/truck modding a LONG time and I know for a fact that most people who spend a ton on mods don't use them for anything but looks. Around here it's super obvious - you see a truck way up high with a bunch of recovery gear, armor, lights and whatnot but there's not a scratch on any of it not even the shovel. If you wheel a truck much at all around here it WILL get scratched. Not might, will! So don't take it personally - I'm just warning people not to get caught up in the hype around here.
As a broad generality there are three categories of off-road gear: cheap crap, good stuff and expensive stuff. Sure, the cheap crap often doesn't last well, but the good stuff lasts as long or longer as the expensive stuff. If you get Ranchos or SkyJackers you might be kicking yourself later but if you get, say, Bilstein 6112/5160 you're not going to be kicking yourself saying "gee, if only I'd spent 5 times as much". OTOH you might very well be kicking yourself when your wallet is $5000 lighter and wishing you'd only spent $1000.
In terms of "reliability" for rock crawling, since the high end shocks with reservoirs are typically as functional as bilsteins, you can't say that the high end kings or icons are more reliable than bilsteins? As the larger diameter and reservoir is more to help for high speed off road type stuff. Seems all these rock crawler guys wanting reliability should go bilsteins unless they go long travel - in terms of practicality at least.
Who knows, maybe a lot more people on here actually do more high speed off road than is discussed (about never) but these are just my observations. I know when I was running the Continental Divide, higher end shocks with reservoirs actually were far more beneficial. Unfortunately through my searches I couldn't even really find info on that route on this site since it seems so much more geared towards crawling. I did 3000 miles through Baja in March on a motorcycle, and plan to do the same in the 4runner soon. But again - other than when Lawn Dart went, no one else here seems to really do stuff like that.
This is a great forum for rock crawling, but in terms of actual expeditions it seems to be lacking. There's not even a forum section for trip reports unless I've missed it?
MossJenks
New member
Now we're really off topic here! But long expeditions like that are pretty niche - there must be dedicated forums for that sort of thing that aren't make/model specific? Definitely Baja is exactly the use case that really good remote-reservoir shocks are for where you have long fast sections where the shocks are really working hard and building up a lot of heat. We have club forums around here that have 4-wheeling trip reports (e.g http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/) but not much in the way of long expeditions.
I wouldn't say there's much actual rock crawling being talked about on this forum. Just general 4-wheeling, which is what I do. Trails that are anywhere from 5 to maybe 30 miles long just to get way out in the mountains for a day or to go camping where there's nobody else around. Heck, the famous Rubicon Trail in California is only like 20 miles long and some of that is smooth dirt and I think even some pavement in spots. The very worst sections might be considered light rock crawling at best. Actual rock crawling is WAY more extreme. If you know bikes then 4-wheeling is like Enduro (but way slower obviously) and rock crawling is like trials. These are my definitions at least.
This is 4-wheeling:
This is rock crawling:
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