SUV critics

[bluewolf]

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I'm not bashing, but I've driven a Mustang across SD in a blizzard without a single spin-out. Even as an SUV driver I must say the "I need an SUV for bad weather" excuse is pretty lame. My wife's Civic handles icy roads great, it easily outhandles and out-brakes my 4Runner.

Oh sure!!

I agree, lightweight front-wheel-drive cars do just as well as any 4X4 on graded roads, compact snow or icey conditions, but it only takes 4" to 6" of snowfall to stop 'em dead. A Honda Civic can't make it 30 feet up MY driveway in 2" of snow. Then, after attempting to do so they can't back out 'cause front-wheel drives don't push well in reverse! STUCK (without some coaxing from a 4Runner). :

We live in a rural area on the eastern base of the Cascades. Snow is not regularly removed from our country roads, and I've had to help more than just a few people in little cars who were stuck in the snow. It's just my contribution to "good samaritinism"!

 

[toybox]

Yeah dude, MILFs are the best. At least you know they put out


july

I'm confused??????? uummmmm........july, are you a "dude" or possibly you are a milf?

 

[sharp4runr]

LOL, 100% male! Thanks for asking :arrow:

 

[Jayded]

prlundberg:

Well, for the record, most people here on the forum would not be better served with a "more efficient" vehicle. And 'image' was the last thing on my mind when I considered the purchase of my truck. If I were more concerned with image, I would have purchased some nice luxury sedan.

About the 4Runner's qualities...I'm perfectly happy with performance and features.

* Cumbersome/Handles poorly:
- I find my truck easy to maneuver because it has such a tight turn radius. Maybe that changed for the post-'98 models...?

* Slow:
- acceleration--use the ECT button
- top speed--hell, it's a truck! If you need a vehicle that can exceed 110 MPH you might have some issues....

* Rides rough:
- Personally, I don't think it rides any rougher than the average truck (with the exception of the Land Rover, of course).

* Poor gas mileage:
- I get 17-21 mpg, versus my mom's Solara which gets 22-25. The difference isn't all that significant. Plus, considering that the Solara has slightly more horsepower (190, vs. 183 in the 4Runner), the difference is probably even less significant.

* Cargo space:
- What have you tried to load in there? With the rear seats folded down, I have yet to find something that won't fit in the back of my truck.

* Overpriced:
- That's one thing I can agree on.

Just curious...what made you decide to go with the 4Runner in the first place?

 

[Mark86]

:iagree:

Also, for all of those people bashing SUV's, why don't you invite these drivers to a day of offroading and see how they feel after that. I also challenge those people bashing SUV's to drive 10 miles in the middle of a blizzard without spinning out. :bash:

When I was talking about driving through snowstorms, I did not mean the wussy 6 inch ones. I meant the ones that are measured in feet and have a nice mixture of ice, sleet, and snow in the mess. The people from New York and New Jersey should know what I am talking about. This past winter was a great example. I saw many sedans that were spun out on the road. Any sedan can get through an ordinary snow shower.

 

[EDGE]

The majority of complainers are college students, college professors, book-writers, wanna-be hippies, and those fortunate enough to have been born into money. They are stubborn, hypocritical, oblivious to factual supporting arguments and generally bitter people. They are typically NOT farmers, ranchers, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, or any other kind of hard-working people who need to carry the tools of their trade. They have no need for pulling a trailer to the dump, or moving furniture, or hauling supplies home to restore an old house, or getting to work despite a foot of fresh snow. They can either afford to hire someone else to do their work, or simply don't do it at all. Many of them frequently travel in airplanes which heavily pollute the atmosphere and consume more fuel in one 4 hr trip than twenty SUVs would in an entire year! Still others are so inept as to believe a smoke-belching '72 Volkswagon bettle is friendlier on the environment than an '04 truck with hyper-efficient emmisions equipment!!

I have no patience for hypocracy, but I have even less patience for people who can't even formulate a logical argument, except to say something like "F--- you and your H2"

Could not have said it better, it's odd how people are like SUV are polluting but compare the number of SUV on the road to the number of old cars that blow smoke and the SUV are much cleaner for the air and the SUV since most are way newer have tougher emission standards, but still factories, and numerous other sources pollute and the SUV still get it again and again, cars need oil changes but noone cares if tons of waste oil is improperly disposed, I forgot what it's called but people don't see the obvious they only see what they want.

Now I did buy my 4Runner for image but I could have got a number of Luxury sedans but I needed the purpose of a truck, people are in shock when I pull up in my nicely waxed and polished truck and Im like I'll take it from here, I've put 8 foot pine trees in the back of the 4Runner, 1 at a time the dirt ball with the roots has to weigh at least 300lbs and all without messing the truck up, and I've loaded up tons of heavy stuff from Home Depot so I use the cargo capacity all the time.

SUV are only great when your neighbor a nurse can't get the camry out of the driveway in a foot of snow cause they need her at the hospital, or your friends cars are small and everyone bitches cause they don't fit in them then they sit in your car and are like damn, my 4Runner get better gas mileage then my friends brand new M3 and it spends more time in the shop: he saves gas by driving the 325i loaner

Any car can drive in snow but here in the Northeast I dare you to stop your FWD on a hill the snow we get here all you see on the road is cars on the side and 4wd driving along:

 

[prlundberg]

prlundberg:

Well, for the record, most people here on the forum would not be better served with a "more efficient" vehicle. And 'image' was the last thing on my mind when I considered the purchase of my truck. If I were more concerned with image, I would have purchased some nice luxury sedan.

About the 4Runner's qualities...I'm perfectly happy with performance and features.
<snip>
Just curious...what made you decide to go with the 4Runner in the first place?

I already stated why I bought it, I think you misread my post. My 4Runner is fine, maybe even exceptional, for a truck. But as a truck, it really isn't good at doing any car or minivan type of things. For example, it can't haul my snowblower, which a AWD minivan with similar dimensions will easily swallow, and it only has marginally better people space than our Civic, which is a much smaller vehicle, and is not near as fun to drive.

Mark86, it sounds to me like people in NJ can't drive : Seriously though, if a regular FWD sedan can't drive safely, what makes people think a heavy, rollover-prone SUV is a better idea? Personally, I see more SUVs in the ditch during bad weather than sedans. The reason is so many think 4 wheel drive will magically make their vehicles defy the laws of physics.

I've only been driving a 4 wheel drive for about 5 years now. Although the added traction is nice, as far as inclement weather goes, the only time it has been a necessity is when I have pulled my snowmobile trailer through snow. Otherwise in the past 3 years, my wife's Civic has made it home through every snowstorm and blizzard my 4Runner and previous Explorer has. Granted in deeper snow more care was needed. But as far as in simply slick (ice) conditions, which are much more common than deep snow around here, her Honda is the superior vehicle.

Just trying to set common misconceptions straight...not trying to slam anybody here, you can drive whatever you like for whatever reason.

 

[bluewolf]

Just trying to set common misconceptions straight...not trying to slam anybody here, you can drive whatever you like for whatever reason.

Right. I think everyone can agree that there are many people who choose to drive SUVs who don't really need them, and who cares?

The reason we have an SUV is because we have transportation needs for many things. Nobody can deny that the SUV is the most versitle vehcle on the market, which serves ALL possible needs. Since most people can't afford to own many vehicles, the wise choice is to find ONE which does everything you need it to do.

1. People transport? As comfortable as any car. MUCH more comfortable than a Honda Civic, unless you and your buddies are 5' tall or smaller.

2. Hauling equipment? If I can't fit something in the back, it takes 5 minutes to hook up the utility trailer.

3. Safety? Better than most cars, undeniably.

4. Economy? Better than most trucks.

5. Recreation / hobbies? I can get anywhere I want to go.

6. Camp trailer? Does just fine for 6000 lbs worth, which is all most people want or need.

7. Style & asthetics? Got it.

An SUV is the best of all worlds and is money wisely spent for the active person. No dispute.

 

[EDGE]

I was in the city and this guy had a Escalade ESC or ESX on 26's, the suburban length one and these women where like OMG your truck is giant and a gas guzzler, you could do the same thing in a smaller vehicle, well the guy was a smart ass cause he said all these funny come backs but the women would not shut up and leave the poor guy alone so he like well you really know why I drive it, my penis is huge, have you ever seen a penis and if you bend over I'll let your measure it, complete silence and the crowd of people that formed was just laughing cause the guy had a spanish accent and it was just a priceless moment.

The way he said it was perfect I laughed for hours, the 3 women then got in this honda civic and drove away and it was smoking, picture 3, 30 something out of shape women who are virgins

They made themselves look worse then they where tryin to make the guy but in the end the guy had fans and it was the city, every other vehicle is am SUV: with cleaner exhaust gas then half the cars

 

[Jetprop]

I bought my 4R because it is top of the line and practically, it works well for my needs... plus it drives the anti-SUV crowd crazy!!

 

[prlundberg]

Right. I think everyone can agree that there are many people who choose to drive SUVs who don't really need them, and who cares?

The reason we have an SUV is because we have transportation needs for many things. Nobody can deny that the SUV is the most versitle vehcle on the market, which serves ALL possible needs. Since most people can't afford to own many vehicles, the wise choice is to find ONE which does everything you need it to do.

1. People transport? As comfortable as any car. MUCH more comfortable than a Honda Civic, unless you and your buddies are 5' tall or smaller.

2. Hauling equipment? If I can't fit something in the back, it takes 5 minutes to hook up the utility trailer.

3. Safety? Better than most cars, undeniably.

4. Economy? Better than most trucks.

5. Recreation / hobbies? I can get anywhere I want to go.

6. Camp trailer? Does just fine for 6000 lbs worth, which is all most people want or need.

7. Style & asthetics? Got it.

An SUV is the best of all worlds and is money wisely spent for the active person. No dispute.

Sorry, I just couldn't let this go, your statement that an SUV serves all possible needs and is the best of all worlds is just not supported. A good comprimise, perhaps, but not the best of all worlds.

1. Comfort is relative, a Civic is an economy car. Despite this, at 6'3", I have adequate room and comfort in our 2001 Civic. In fact, about the same amount of legroom as my 4Runner, albeit in a lower seated position. Not bad for a vehicle that cost half as much. An Accord is easily more comfortable than my 4Runner, as as is every minivan I've been in.

2. A car or van can pull a utility trailer as well. Most are rated around 1500 pounds or more. Enough to meet most people's needs.

3. Fatality rates do not support this statement.

4. Better than full sizes, but not better than most cars or minivans.

5. I agree here.

6. My 2000 is rated for 5000, but definately not ideal for pulling that much IMO. Too light, engine too weak, tranny gets too hot.

7. Matter of opinion.


This is getting fun

 

[bluewolf]

Oooo a debate!

1. Comfort is having more room to stretch out and enjoy a longer trip. If you're trying to tell me that after a 6 hr trip in a Honda Civic you feel just as good as if you took the same trip in a Chevy Yukon, you're lying to yourself.

2. Are you serious? Really? When is the last time you've seen a compact 4-cylinder automobile pulling ANY trailer.

3. Depends on the test results you are looking at and for which vehicle. Your generalizing.

4. Well, you're right. But as I said, it's a compromise.

6. I didn't know we were comparing YOUR suv, I thought we were talking about suv's in general. If we were talking about YOUR suv, I would urge you not to even tow 3000 lbs.

7. Oh, I agree completely! After all, there's no accounting for taste. There are people who actually bought those AMC Gremins and Pacers, for example!!

 

[toybox]

2. A car or van can pull a utility trailer as well. Most are rated around 1500 pounds or more. Enough to meet most people's needs.


6. My 2000 is rated for 5000, but definately not ideal for pulling that much IMO. Too light, engine too weak, tranny gets too hot.

This is a little contradictory. Your truck that is rated for 5k lbs has trouble trailing its rated weight but you expect someone to actually tow with a car?

 

[Larry]

I have a V8 03 and have a friend that pokes at me for owning an SUV. He has an Odyssey, so we had a mileage contest on the honor system. His published mileage is a bit better than mine, but when it came to the real world, he can't get close to the advertised figures. I got 18.6 over five tanks he got 18.8 over six tanks. He was surprised.

Another comparison, he went through front tires in 25k, was told it was normal and he's facing a brake job soon. My tires are just fine and there is plenty of brake pad left.

And after looking in the engine compartment, he's got a bit more work to do, every service.

So those that own minivans and complaign about SUV's should be a little more careful.

One last thing, we weighed in at a truck scale, he drives a big rig, and his Odyssey weighs almost 400 pounds more that the 4Runner, surprise, again.

 

[Expat]

Here's some examples of the aggression I/we recieve on other forums. It doesn't bother me too much but its got me thinking I guess


(1)
SUVs are just socially irresponsible vehicles abused by money-to-burn posers in the vast majority of the cases. How many have actually ever seen a dirt road? How many have ever towed anything? This has been debated ad nauseum on this forum but IMO if the French want to ban 'em (SUV's) - GOOD! It's a step in the right direction.

(2)
Of course there is "freedom". However, one is not "free" in the US to drive on the left side of the road, either. Arguments using sports cars is spurious at best since the problem is brought about by the physical resources used by an SUV in the form of actual space, pollution generated, and the damage to the roads by the additional weight in many cases.

I have heard the argument before: "I NEED my SUV. I have three kids, a travel trailer, two dogs, a boat, two ATVS and HAVE to take them with us when we take that two week vacation (maybe)" The rest of the people shouldn't have them if they are not like me and really NEED them. Let them drive small cars and save the gas for people like me who really NEED them."

There is a difference between WANT and NEED, folks. If you NEED that SUV for those two weeks in the mountains, RENT ONE!!! When I go on vacation, I leave my little puddle jumper home and rent a nice new Wallowagon. If it breaks, ain't my problem; I can cram it with stuff and pile mileage on it like Hell wouldn't have to and the next oil change ain't my problem all for about $200 a week. A lot cheaper than that $439 or more a month lease (and at the end you STILL have nothing to show for it)

As the roads get more crowded and costs of vehicle operation continue to climb, the problem will no longer exist. We will all be driving something a bit smaller.


(3)
Some peoples need to realize that there isn't an infinite quantity of oil in that planet, and there isn't either an infinite quantity or air around it. So polluting more air and using more gas than others peoples shouldn't be a right.


You guys getting the picture? So what do you reckon? Are we being irresponsible jerks...I gotta say that LA is getting carried away with the no. of frickin HUGH trucks tearing down the highways. It does seem kinda ridiculous seeing 6.0 ltr + V8, lifted trucks, sitting in traffic jams

When I see a nice looking mum (early 30's) climb out of her Hummer and walk into our local supermarket I do cringe. I guess this is what the regular car guys are getting at in relation to all SUV's.

Is this all defensible in some way? Statistics?

Cheers
Mark

 

[Kanab]

Mark who cares? I don't care what they say behind my back and if the say it to my face I will knock them on their A$$

 

[bluewolf]

You guys getting the picture? So what do you reckon? Are we being irresponsible jerks...I gotta say that LA is getting carried away with the no. of frickin HUGH trucks tearing down the highways. It does seem kinda ridiculous seeing 6.0 ltr + V8, lifted trucks, sitting in traffic jams

Why does this bother you? Do you have a guilty conscience?

Do you consume meat or wear leather? There are people who hate you for that.

Do you own any firearms? There are people who hate you for that.

Do you hunt or fish recreationally? There are people who hate you for that.

Do you make an above-average living? There are people who hate you for that.

Do you enjoy dirt-biking, snow-mobiling, or four-wheeling? There are people who hate you for that.

Do you consume a couple of beers with the guys after work and then drive home? There are people who hate you for that.

Do you toss out plastics and glass instead of recycling? There are people who hate you for that.

Need I go on, and on, and on? Get used to the idea that people will never stop hating other people for how THEY think the other guy SHOULD be conducting his or her life. Do what you think is right, and if you think driving your Toyota 4Runner is irresponsible then by all means... torture yourself no longer. Purchase a mule.

 

[alpha]

Get used to the idea that people will never stop hating other people for how THEY think the other guy SHOULD be conducting his or her life.

I agree with this. People will get "talked about"/"hated" for whatever they drive. You drive what you drive, and if you are happy with it, then be happy with it.

For example, I used to drive a Honda Accord. It was a great car, and I do miss it. Granted it got better mileage, was comfortable, overall great car. But people still had the image of "rice rocket" and applied that. Did I let it bother me? No. Why? Because I don't care what other people think. Let them call a mostly stock Honda Accord a "rice rocket". Granted, there are those that give the community a bad image, but there are a lot of people that are just car enthusiasts.

And do I care what people say about me driving the 4Runner. No. I bought it for reasons of its use. Granted, I may not use it for towing, but limited off roading is possible. I mostly bought it so I could haul my stuff around, which not all would fit in the Accord. And if people are going to hate me driving something that fits my needs a little more, then so be it.

 

[Hoomiester]

To each his own. I bought it for me to drive and survive in- not anyone esle.

:tongue:

 

[biglatka]

[Is this all defensible in some way? Statistics?

Cheers
Mark [/B]

Points are well taken, and I sympathize with them, minus the aggression and rhetoric. The defense, though, should be on an individual case basis.

I bought my 4Runner because of past experience with Toyota and 4Runners in particular. My wife and I feel safer in it. It is a good riding, comfortable, well-built vehicle. Many times we carry large objects, and we may well be towing an RV and do some moderate off-roading. I understand that the mileage is not as good as many cars can achieve, but I believe that for reasons I stated it is worth it and a justified purchase. The 4Runner is classified as a mid-size SUV and as such must not be compared to the likes of the Hummer 2, Ford Excursion, etc, (whose owners may well be justifying their purchase) which are anywhere from 1000-2000 lbs more than the 4Runner with bigger, more fuel consuming engines. So those comments may be painting with too wide a brush, and comparing "apples to oranges".

Of course there are those who would argue that none of us has to justify any purchase they make. But then we get into the idea that “no man is an island”. I think the truth lies somewhere in-between those two concepts. Nevertheless, what's next? What about the people who buy larger homes? Don't these larger homes use more natural resources in their construction, heating/cooling, and upkeep? What about larger vs. smaller swimming pools, boats, air conditioners, TV's, etc.? Where will it end? Maybe we need an energy and/or natural resource consumption tax? Worldwide? I don’t know. Would that be fair if the money went into maximizing our energy and other natural resources? Then again, I’m cynical about government and believe they would find ways of siphoning off tax dollars raised this way to fund other pork barrel projects.

The answer to all this is probably doing much more research and development into alternative energy resources, which the all-powerful oil company lobbies do all they can to stop or delay. Oil is a finite resource and it's a shame that as a country we waste so much of it, when it's so valuable from the point of view of what can be made from it rather than burning it. Industry and particularly the auto industry in China is growing by leaps and bounds. What will we (the world) do when China's energy consumption approaches and even surpasses ours??? What about energy use in India, Russia, and the EU? Where and how will their energy and natural resource needs be met?

I guess what I'm probably saying is that the problem is much bigger than just coming down on SUV's. It’s too simplistic an argument; our dependence on foreign oil goes much deeper than that. Without getting political, it just galls me to see all the money we spend (and will be spent) on rebuilding Iraq. Just think what we in the US could do if that money was earmarked for education, health coverage, energy research, and the infrastructure here in America.

Our children and grand children will reap the punishment or rewards of our collective actions.