Swapping gears on locker, what will work?

4RUNNERTMAN

4RUNNERTMAN

New member
I just got a rear locker for my 97 and the gears are 4.30 and need to swap in 4.10 to match front diff. Will any 4.10 diff work for the swap? As Tom Petty said it best " I need to know, I need to know, I need to know, if you think its ok then you better say so, I need to know" lol lol
Thanks
 
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Wait - what are you doing? You have 4.10 in the truck now? And a locked 3rd with 4.30 in it? You could put your existing 4.10 ring and pinion into the 4.30 third, although if you're asking I'd suggest having a professional do that. It would be easier to find a 4.30 front chunk and swap that in when you put in the rear third. That'd have the added benefit of bringing you back towards your powerband if you're running oversize tires.
 
KidV is right, you'd be better off swapping in a 4.30 front diff instead of regearing the rear. For one thing, 4.30 is a better ratio if you have or plan on taller tires. Also, installing gears requires some specialized tools and a lot of experience. And if you must swap, why not use the R+P from your original diff?
 
These guys are right. It will be cheaper to find a front 4.30 and swap both in. I just did something similar in my '87. I had 4.10's, swapped them to 4.56's. I got a 4.30 elocker. Went and found a 4.30 front, then sold off my 4.56's as a set. Dropping to 4.30's was not a big deal as I am about to go from 22re to a 3.4.

Made the elocker way more affordable, and I don't have the dial indicator and other tools needed in order to properly set a differential. Go to zuk's site, Toyota Gear Installs If you don't think you can pull that off, then listen to the advice already posted above.
 
Well I just got back from my mechanic and we just were discussing this whole thing. As i see it I have 3 options here.

1. The 4.30 E-Locker that was delivered was supposed to be a 4.10 so I could have them pick it back up because they said if it is not a 4.10 they would take it back. (by the way this is actually the second rear axle I purchased this week as the first one was also supposed to be a 4.10 but it is also a 4.30) So I have now 2 rear axle E-Lockers 4.30 sitting in the shop that are the wrong part. So I can try again and find a 4.10 but at this point I am not sure what to do and how much more research, phone calls to Toyota and different charts and color Codes to try and get the right one as that has been proven this week to be a effort in futility. Vary frustrating to say the least and my guy is being really good about it but he has a business to run as well so need to get this behind us. So all that being said i can again try and find a 4.10 rear axle but not feeling to confident about that in light of my experience already.

2. Regear-not really a option unless I go somewhere else as I am not sure my guy can do it and going to be costly as well as he said its labor intensive and can be time consuming.

3. Change out front diff to 4.30-If money was not so tight right now i would probably go that route but it seems silly to change out a part that is perfectly fine and I also now I am out of cash so again not really a option there either but that may be my only option. Let me ask you guys though how long would it take roughly to change out the front and what would be a good price on a 4.30 chunk for up front? Would I need anything else(other parts)other then the front diff in order to do it?

I just wish one of the rear axles would have been a 4.10 and I would be back on the road already, the truck has been down for 6 weeks already. I think the only way to know for sure that the rear axle you are buying is what Toyota claims it to be is to open the chunk and count the teeth. Ridiculous the way Toyota did their codes, just ridiculous!

Thanks guys for your input and all help is greatly appreciated, Tman
 
You've got 2 4.30 elocker rears now? A complete elocker third goes for $500-600 around here, and you can probably fetch around $100 for your old 4.10 third. That's enough cash to pick up a 4.30 front, have it installed, and have your rear axle modified for the elocker. Or if you're stuck on your 4.10 gears, you can take both thirds to a driveline shop and pay maybe $200-300 to have your old 4.10 ring and pinion installed in the new elocker third.

Personally, I think you'll like the 4.30 gears better, and I think that's the least labor intensive option. If cash is an issue, swapping out the front chunk is something anybody with basic tools and a floor jack can do.
 
KidVermicious said:
You've got 2 4.30 elocker rears now? A complete elocker third goes for $500-600 around here, and you can probably fetch around $100 for your old 4.10 third. That's enough cash to pick up a 4.30 front, have it installed, and have your rear axle modified for the elocker. Or if you're stuck on your 4.10 gears, you can take both thirds to a driveline shop and pay maybe $200-300 to have your old 4.10 ring and pinion installed in the new elocker third.

Personally, I think you'll like the 4.30 gears better, and I think that's the least labor intensive option. If cash is an issue, swapping out the front chunk is something anybody with basic tools and a floor jack can do.
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Yep I have 2 - 4.30 elockers right now, anybody need one before they come and take them back? I cant keep them because of the cost and I have just enough to buy the right rear axel so I can either sell them to get my money back or have the supplier come get them to get my money back. My 4.10 rear axle housing is bent that is why I am replacing it so its of no use to me. I just want another 4.10 rear axle and I would be good to go. Seems like a easy fix and thus far proving to be near impossible to get the right one.

Swapping out front chunk may be all I can do but again money is tight and not only would I have to buy the front diff and but then have to have it put in as well. I would try to do it myself but the truck is at my mechanics shop and cant be moved until we get the rear diff situation solved. What a mess.
 
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Just a suggestion, send them both back, put your third back in drive it until you know you have the correct diff and all the parts needed for the swap. You won't be without a vehicle until you find the correct diff. Which @ this point seems at best a shot in the dark.
 
Well I would put the original back I can't because it's bent and is not working correctly, tore up the drivers side axle and is slipping because of that. My mechanic already put in the second rear axle assembly. Now he tells me that the brakes need work and one of the cylinders is leaking. More$$ So now looking for a front chunk with 4.30 gearing. Can I drive it with the 4.30 rear end and the 4.10 front end as long as I don't put it in 4wd? What's yours guys opinion on a good price on a front diff? Thanks
 
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I'm really confused now, though - if your problem is a bent axle housing, why on earth are you buying thirds? Man, the quality of advice we can offer is predicated entirely on the accuracy of the info you're providing.

My suggestion for you at this point would be to have your truck towed home, return both thirds you bought, and start surfing junkyards until you find a truck with the same axle code as yours. Buy the axle complete with third, brakes, everything. Rent a shop crane and Home Depot truck to get it to your house and unloaded, pull your old axle, and replace it with your new one.

Checking car-part.com, axle housings hub to hub appear to go for $500-$600 in your area, and a used 4.10 third will probably be another $100. You'll probably pay less through craiglist, but at this point I don't think you should be spending any more money on unverified parts.

You can pull your old axle and install the new one in a day. You'll save on mechanics costs, and educate yourself regarding your truck at the same time. Worry about lockers and new gear ratios later, just get a new axle and get your truck back on the road.
 
KidVermicious said:
I'm really confused now, though - if your problem is a bent axle housing, why on earth are you buying thirds? Man, the quality of advice we can offer is predicated entirely on the accuracy of the info you're providing.

My suggestion for you at this point would be to have your truck towed home, return both thirds you bought, and start surfing junkyards until you find a truck with the same axle code as yours. Buy the axle complete with third, brakes, everything. Rent a shop crane and Home Depot truck to get it to your house and unloaded, pull your old axle, and replace it with your new one.

Checking car-part.com, axle housings hub to hub appear to go for $500-$600 in your area, and a used 4.10 third will probably be another $100. You'll probably pay less through craiglist, but at this point I don't think you should be spending any more money on unverified parts.

You can pull your old axle and install the new one in a day. You'll save on mechanics costs, and educate yourself regarding your truck at the same time. Worry about lockers and new gear ratios later, just get a new axle and get your truck back on the road.
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OK the reason I am purchasing the whole rear axle with the chunk intact is because the rear axle housing is bent thus causing issues inside the housing on the drivers side and causing the axle to move. I already had the chunk repaired as back in Feb. the truck failed to move and we took apart the rear diff and the drivers rear sidegear was broken and it tore up the splines on that axle. We put in a new sidegear, and put it all back together but its now acting up again so my mechanic and he is a good one said he feels its the bent axle housing that is causing the axle to move, or slip out of the third and causing undue stress on the outer part of the sidegear causing it to break. So the only real solution as I see it is to replace the entire thing, rear axle housing, rear diff etc.

My mechanic said he would credit me back the labor 7 hours and to find a complete rear axle to do a swap so that's what we have been trying to do. I did order the 2 complete rear axle housings, with rear chunks intact with the same axle codes that are on my truck and sure enough they are wrong. You can not rely on Toyota's axle codes and or the model numbers or the Vin numbers to determine gear ratio,as when I called Toyota they told me that the codes on my truck came back as either 4.10 or 4.30 but of course they could not tell me specificly which one was on my truck even with all the codes, axle, vin, model# etc. So I have the labor covered so it wouldn't make sense to have it towed, and it doesn't matter because no one has the 4.10 here as I have checked and even tho they say its a 4.10 all have come out to be 4.30 so I think I will have no choice but to now replace the front chunk with a matching 4.30
Wait for it........Here's the kicker, My mechanic put on the second rear axle we got in as they assured both of us it was a 4.10 and now that we have to keep it apparently, we should have used the first one as it was $100.00 less in cost and has 40,000 less miles on it. I can't win on this situation! :redbrick::ybrick:
 
Holy crap. You said you had 4.30 thirds. Now you're saying you have complete axles? I'm sorry, but I'm close to done with this. Your mechanic doesn't know what he's doing, you don't know what you're doing, you both really need to have some basic idea of what you've got and the questions you're asking before you're going to get any kind of decent help. Nearly every response in this thread is useless to you, because you're not being clear about what your situation is.

Just to be clear - you have a '97 4wd with a thrashed rear diff in 4.10, and your mechanic thinks it's a bent axle. You have two complete rear axle/third member assemblies with elockers in 4.30, right? Is this all the pertinent information? Then here are your choices:

1) Have your mechanic install one of the 4.30 axle/third setups you have, and drive around without using 4wd until you can get 4.30 gears installed in your front diff. Sell or return the other.

2) Buy a junkyard axle and a 4.10 ring and pinion with a master install kit. Install the junkyard axle and have your existing third rebuilt. Sell/return both the elocker axle/third combos.

3) Same as option 2, but get a junkyard third in 4.10 to go with the junkyard axle.

4) Same as option 4, but new parts instead of used.

I recommend option one. For what it's worth, you're probably getting 4.30 because you're ordering elocker axles and thirds, and I'm pretty sure those didn't come in 4.10.
 
KidVermicious said:
Holy crap. You said you had 4.30 thirds. Now you're saying you have complete axles? I'm sorry, but I'm close to done with this. Your mechanic doesn't know what he's doing, you don't know what you're doing, you both really need to have some basic idea of what you've got and the questions you're asking before you're going to get any kind of decent help. Nearly every response in this thread is useless to you, because you're not being clear about what your situation is.

Just to be clear - you have a '97 4wd with a thrashed rear diff in 4.10, and your mechanic thinks it's a bent axle. You have two complete rear axle/third member assemblies with elockers in 4.30, right? Is this all the pertinent information? Then here are your choices:

1) Have your mechanic install one of the 4.30 axle/third setups you have, and drive around without using 4wd until you can get 4.30 gears installed in your front diff. Sell or return the other.

2) Buy a junkyard axle and a 4.10 ring and pinion with a master install kit. Install the junkyard axle and have your existing third rebuilt. Sell/return both the elocker axle/third combos.

3) Same as option 2, but get a junkyard third in 4.10 to go with the junkyard axle.

4) Same as option 4, but new parts instead of used.

I recommend option one. For what it's worth, you're probably getting 4.30 because you're ordering elocker axles and thirds, and I'm pretty sure those didn't come in 4.10.
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Hey kid, If you go back and read my earlier post you will see I said axle and never used the word (third) this is what I said and i colored it red so it would stand out. "(by the way this is actually the second rear axle I purchased this week as the first one was also supposed to be a 4.10 but it is also a 4.30)" so I do know what I am doing, I am trying to replace the REAR AXLE assembly which includes the diff as well. I am not sure how it is elsewhere but here in Florida when you purchase a rear axle assembly you get drum to drum and the rear differential as well, the whole burrito. Anyway I have read countless posts, looked at countless chats and write-ups on gear ratios to be sure I did know what I was talking about and before ordering in used parts but like I have already said, with Toyota's methodology on how they do their gear ratio's its a nightmare, and before soliciting help which by the way I have done before and I do really appreciate the help I get. I have been doing all the parts ordering for this rig as it should be and do not allow any mechanic to order the parts. I do most of the work on it myself if possible but have no where to do this kind of stuff needing floor jacks and hoists etc. Its only me here so don't have anyone to help me and funds are tight so new tools, truck rentals, and all that is really out of the question. I was just trying to get a job that was started back in February completed or done right and its really turned into a problematic situation to say the least. At any rate I was hoping I would be able to find a easier solution then having to replace both and back diffs so I could get a match but it looks like that is what I will have to do. All I wanted to know originally is if I could find a 4.10 chunk and use it in the 4.30 chunk by swapping gears but I see that that is not easy to do and I already knew obviously that I can change the front diff to 4.30 but again its gonna cost me the part and the labor so not the solution I was looking for but Oh well what can you do. By the way, when I ordered both the rear axles they were both supposed to be non-locker rears but when they arrived they both had the locker however the info that was stated on car-part.com said they were 4.10 and in further reading and investigating Toyota did make a 4.10 locker so I was excited to have the locker and even went out and bought the ecu to match it but still looking for the wiring harness. Thanks Kid for your help but maybe before you accuse someone of being a idiot you need to read what they said, not saying I'm not a idiot some of the time but i feel I was fairly clear as to what I was trying to say when I started this post. Just trying to get my truck fixed, that's all.
 
Well just got off the phone with the junk yard that delivered the last (2nd) E-Locker axle to me and they are going to send over the front diff from the same 4Runner so that should be a match for the rear 4.30 they sent I hope! I got the ECU as well as the pig tail from it other then making a wiring harness I think I am good to go. I already have the dash switch so I am hoping it won't be to difficult to do the wiring.
 
4.30 axle swap complete. runs like a champ again! I checked out some of the write-ups on the swap but we did ours differently in that we did not take apart the hub and all components on the front differential. Just disconnected each side on the front axle at the ball joint assembly and slid out the axle far enough on each side to get out the diff. It was easy and only took about 45 minutes to remove and we weren't going fast or anything. I have some pics I can post when I get a chance. The front diff is a tight squeeze to get in and out but it was possible without to many bloody knuckles. Anyway thanks to all for your input and I just need to get this baby wired up now.

I do have a 4.30 E-locker diff with rear axle assembly (hub to hub) for sale now since I bought 2 of them and also front and back diffs in 4.10 gearing.
If any interest let me know.
 
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