Synthetic Engine Oil

[AlmightyMoonPie]

Some of you guys crack me up. You will spend big bucks on the outside of your runners (Grinot's and Zanios) but still use plain oil. I have been in the environmental business for many years, and have connections to the Chevron Refinery in Mississippi. Most every oil is produced buy one of a few companies, TexacoChevron, and ExxonMobil are the big two, all the oil is the same except for the addition of additives, and you can only get one basic oil, that just the way the refining process works. Kind of like gas, it’s all the same except for the additives, However I am not talking about the octane rating.

I have been using AMSOIL for years in everything I have , from the lawnmower and weedeater and ATV, to the Miata and Jeep, I can tell you that there is a difference in the contamination build up in the synthetics, i.e. there is almost none, I change the oil in the cars every 7500 miles, It is wonderful. yes it is more expensive, you can sign up for a preferred customer for $20.00 a year and get it at the dealer price, and oil change that way only add bout $10.00 to the cost. plus you can get all of you grease and filters and even ATF, order on Monday and it is here buy Thursday, That why I don’t have to go out looking of the oil that I need. I usually order a years worth at a time, All I can say that it is good stuff. the only thing I dont run AMSOIL is in the diffrentals for that I use good ole LUCAS

When you 05 runner get here you better beleive that the only oil that I run will be AMSOIL.

MP

 

[Kanab]

Some of you guys crack me up. You will spend big bucks on the outside of your runners (Grinot's and Zanios) but still use plain oil. I have been in the environmental business for many years, and have connections to the Chevron Refinery in Mississippi. Most every oil is produced buy one of a few companies, TexacoChevron, and ExxonMobil are the big two, all the oil is the same except for the addition of additives, and you can only get one basic oil, that just the way the refining process works. Kind of like gas, it’s all the same except for the additives, However I am not talking about the octane rating.

I have been using AMSOIL for years in everything I have , from the lawnmower and weedeater and ATV, to the Miata and Jeep, I can tell you that there is a difference in the contamination build up in the synthetics, i.e. there is almost none, I change the oil in the cars every 7500 miles, It is wonderful. yes it is more expensive, you can sign up for a preferred customer for $20.00 a year and get it at the dealer price, and oil change that way only add bout $10.00 to the cost. plus you can get all of you grease and filters and even ATF, order on Monday and it is here buy Thursday, That why I don’t have to go out looking of the oil that I need. I usually order a years worth at a time, All I can say that it is good stuff. the only thing I dont run AMSOIL is in the diffrentals for that I use good ole LUCAS

When you 05 runner get here you better beleive that the only oil that I run will be AMSOIL.

MP

Amsoil synthetic = no API donut, which you must have or you are in violation of your warranty. Don't yell at me I'm not the manufacture and I don't make the rules.

I think Amsoil is a "great" oil but I would not use it until the 5 year 60K mile warranty is up. I know I've heard the storys that you can get a lawyer and you will win in court and the manufacture will have to fix your engine. I don't want to have to go to court.

Use a quality dino oil and OEM filter and change it every 3-5K miles and you will never have a engine lubrication problem with your Toyota engine for as long as you own it. The new 5w30 API SL rated oils are that good.

If synthetics make you feel like a good person then buy one of the name brands that have the API donut and still change the oil based on the owners manual and you will have the same results as you will have with the dino oil.

Only exceptions to the above, if you live in Alaska or Death valley I would say use the synthetic.

I know I'm one of the nuts that will use the synthetics even though I know it is costing me more and I don't need the additional protection. I admit it. That does not mean it is the best bang for the buck.

 

[AlmightyMoonPie]

Pit, you made a good point, guess my lawyer will have to get involved, I am a firm beleiver in AMSOIL and will run it till I die, I have seen the diffrence that it has made in the life of motors i have run it in, for example, my boat has a 1986 Merc outboard on it, it gets run almost weekly year round, we decided to pull the topend off this spring to liik for any problems, the pistons and cylinder walls looked perfect, no sign of wear. shocked the crap out of me, and trust me that little 60hp gets run hard to find the mighty redfish. It has been running AMSOIL 2 stroke since the first tank. another example, my father has had the same snapper lawnmower for 22 years, and it is still running on the same innerds, has had three decks and a few carbs but still the same innerds and it has been running AMSOIL since day one

Also studies have been done that show that AMSOIL Surpasses the API standards, that alone will hold up in a court of law considering the exact same ASTM methods were carried out


MP

 

[Larry]

Hey guys, it's a little more basic than is generally thought. It goes something like this. You have to use an oil of the correct weight, that is API certified, but the API specs are just that, specs. The API probably did not test your bottle of oil. Also the oil change intervals are guide lines. If you have a warranty claim, it's on the factory to prove that your oil fell below spec or that you did something, wrong, a mistake or omission, some time leading up to the problem or at the time of the problem. So you don't have to use a specific oil or change it at a specific mileage. Your problem, if you varied from the published guide lines, is to prove you met the requirement. So there can be vague areas in the middle of a claim. I think it's Pitbull that has taken the sure path. Do the oil changes at the dealer on a consertive schedule. Anything less or more than that could be a risk. If you keep good records with receipts, use a proven oil and filter and do not show signs of abuse you have done your part. you must create a documented consistant pattern. Having said that you might still need legal help but not likely. And a final thought, guys like us are not usually the problem. You know the types. It's those that don't care about their vehicles, for whatever reason and abuse them that have the problems with the warranty. That guy is not on this forum reading posts about maintenance.

Oh, I think Amsoil does make an 'other grade' synthetic that has the API badge. You have to look for it because Amsoil dealers talk up the 'best stuff', that 0w-30.

 

[Kanab]

Pit, you made a good point, guess my lawyer will have to get involved, I am a firm beleiver in AMSOIL and will run it till I die, I have seen the diffrence that it has made in the life of motors i have run it in, for example, my boat has a 1986 Merc outboard on it, it gets run almost weekly year round, we decided to pull the topend off this spring to liik for any problems, the pistons and cylinder walls looked perfect, no sign of wear. shocked the crap out of me, and trust me that little 60hp gets run hard to find the mighty redfish. It has been running AMSOIL 2 stroke since the first tank. another example, my father has had the same snapper lawnmower for 22 years, and it is still running on the same innerds, has had three decks and a few carbs but still the same innerds and it has been running AMSOIL since day one

Also studies have been done that show that AMSOIL Surpasses the API standards, that alone will hold up in a court of law considering the exact same ASTM methods were carried out


MP

MP, I think you are correct. Amsoil synthetic is one of the best oils made. Checkout what the Guru's on www.bobistheoilguy.com say. I've used it myself and it works great. I just thought that people "that care" should know that since Amsoil does not feel like spending the money to have their oil API certified everytime they upgrade the formula, that the synthetic does not carry the API donut and without the donut Toyota can use that agains't you if you have a lubrication warranty claim. Of course I doubt you would ever have one for a lubrication problem if you used Amsoil. I just hate to give Toyota/Dealer a shot at denying anything.

 

[Kanab]

Larry, your right about me being conservative about oil and OCI and not trusting the dealer. I've just heard too many horror stories. I think part of the problem is that the more you know the more you have to worry about. I even once had a Lexus dealer forget to put oil into my wifes Lexus. Now you should see me check my vehicles out when the dealer gets done and before I drive away.

 

[AlmightyMoonPie]

Its just funny to me, I am not going to take a brand a brand new runner into the dealers shop to have the oil changed just for the record, I sure as hell am not going to take it to a jiffy lube with their 55 gallon drums of and a pre pub tech making 5.70 and hour to change it. Seems like as long as you keep good records ie oil change milage/date/type and have all the info yota would not stand a chance, and besides, I have acess to a lift and all the tools i need almost any time so I change my own oil as well as all the lubrication.

As for as the API it just shows that the makers spent big $$$ to have their oil listed, kinda like the ISO9002 certification in the manfacturing process, is an API oil better than a non API oil? In most cases no, the makers just spent the bucks for the little 'nut

MP

 

[Kanab]

The API thing seems like a way to keep the little guys like Amsoil out of the game. They can't afford it every time they upgrade their formula. JMHO

 

[Larry]

The API process is no big deal. The problem is more basic. The API is a one size fits most everyone. It's a bunch of paper pushers and their specs are too general and don't make really good oil. The ACEA is driven by manufacturers and there are a zillion different specs. If you don't find one you like than you can make your own. It results in a very good match between the car and the oil. The car guys ask for what they want and the oil guys supply it. They know they will have a market and can cater to smaller groups of cars or categories. So if you are learning about stuff like oil, look for ACEA specs for cars that are like your car....simple, maybe.

 

[loudog2]

Mobil 1 vs. Mobil1 drive clean NV

Does anybody know the difference between the Regular Mobil 1 synthetic 5-30 and the Mobil 1 Drive clean NV(new vehicle) 5-30?? Both are synthetic. Is one 100% and the other not?? Just want to know if one is better than the other.

 

[Koz]

This is right from Mobil;

Mobil Drive Clean Plus NV and Mobil Drive Clean Plus HM engine oils are premium synthetic blend formulas engineered to provide added performance and protection with formulations specially designed for both newer vehicles (5W-30) and higher mileage vehicles (10W-30 & 10W-40). These products contain a mixture of high-performance synthetic fluid and quality conventional base stocks with premium performance additives boosted by 23 % which means more advanced detergent, dispersant, and anti-oxidants to help maintain or restore engine cleanliness. In addition to more performance additives, the higher mileage formulas are offered in higher viscosities to offer better oil consumption control, and contain seal swell conditioners to help condition seals as they age. These oils protect against sludge and engine rust and corrosion under severe low-temperature operating conditions. Because these are high performance synthetic blend products that have been boosted for added performance they help reduce engine wear, maintain long lasting protection and help prevent the build up of harmful sludge in hotter running engines, like turbocharged and other high-performance engines. Pour depressants and viscosity index (VI) improvers are included to provide the desired viscosity-temperature and low-temperature fluidity characteristics.

Koz

 

[Larry]

Don't forget that even though you drive your engine clean or have high mileage you must add some 'start up' oil, too, that is unless you don't start your engine much or just don't care. And if the engine is build in Germany then you need some 'European Formula' oil. And as many domestic cars have Mexican engines you will need something special for them, too. And don't forget Canada, maybe those engines take Moose Head Oil.

By all means, read the label. How could you get anywhere with maintenance and not have that important information. And watch the shelves this spring. We're all going to need some 'vacation oil'. Then we can drive clean to high mileage while starting our engine every time we go somewhere and get ready to go on vacation. Be careful, do you drive an SUV? If you do there's SUV oil, wouldn't want to be caught driving down a gravel driveway in four wheel drive clearing a speed bump with your lift kit and not have SUV oil.....oh the shame of it all. Who knows what you'd be risking? And all this can be avoided by reading labels.

 

[Kanab]

Larry your right it's getting crazy out there!!! Just keep it (oil) clean and change when the manufacture recommends and of course trade your vehicle when the warranty expires and you should be OK

 

[Larry]

Pitbull, don't let the oil companies hear you! It's harder to lead the sheep to the pen when they find out they are going to get clipped. Even dealers have clippers, just like the quicky lube places. Grab your ankles and squeel like a piggy. If you are not using a new 'designer' oil you're just not with it.

 

[Koz]

Believe it or not, there is a difference in the additive packages that each oil manufactures uses. And these differences have been proven to provide different amounts protection in different applications. Considering what I have seen in lab. testing/comparisons, I would give Mobil the benefit of the dough. I'm not saying that ALL manufactures' claims are fact, but there is a clear difference between Mobil 1/Amsoil products and most of the others. Some people seem to be a little cynical. I would think that before flushing their products down the toilet or consider it useless, they would get some solid data to back their personal opinion.

Koz

 

[Kanab]

KOZ, I am sure you are right. I think the Mobil 1 will cover you much better if you are running in Death Valley or Alaska and not wanting to change every 3-5K miles. If someone like me that lives in the midwest and every time I drive my 4runner I am getting it fully warmed up by driving 15+ miles. I am also driving a mix of city/highway, so the idea of using a premium dino oil at the manufactures recommended interval will fully protect my engine for its normal life cycle, for less $$$. But the extra $20 3-4 times a year for Mobil 1 should not be a big deal and I will go to Mobil 1 myself when my drivetrain warranty is up (extend the OCI to 7500 mile) and get my $$ worth out of the Mobil 1 OC. What do you think? Am I on the right track???

 

[Koz]

Pitbull,

Don't wait to change over to synthetic. It is far superior to conventional oil in many ways. One of the most important reasons is cold starts. The largest percentage of engine wear happens in the time it takes your oil to reach vital areas of your engine when it is first started, especially when in cold temp. Conventional oil is drastically affected by cold weather, where as synthetic oil has an incredible pour rate even in extremely cold weather. That alone is enough reason to change. If you look at all the other measures in rating oil, synthetic oil KILLS conventional oil.

Koz

 

[Kanab]

Pitbull,

Don't wait to change over to synthetic. It is far superior to conventional oil in many ways. One of the most important reasons is cold starts. The largest percentage of engine wear happens in the time it takes your oil to reach vital areas of your engine when it is first started, especially when in cold temp. Conventional oil is drastically affected by cold weather, where as synthetic oil has an incredible pour rate even in extremely cold weather. That alone is enough reason to change. If you look at all the other measures in rating oil, synthetic oil KILLS conventional oil.

Koz

Koz is your recommendation to me the same if I always park my 4runner in a heated garage and I will be trading it at 80-90K miles? Plus I now do OCI at 3750 miles and use Castrol GTX 5w30 and OEM filter?

 

[Larry]

And these designer oils are from corporations that bring us stuff like Slick 50, Prolong and numerous others. I would say that it's okay to stick with standard oil packages and not feel guilty. I use a synthetic and it works okay for driving clean and high mileage and starting. It comes from a small company in California and I can call them on the phone and talk to their tech support. I've even spoken to their head chemist and I'm happy that I can get information without a sales pitch.

 

[Koz]

I agree with Larry about designer oils and fancy additives. ALL synthetic oils are overkill, so choose the brand that you feel comfortable with. The thing to remember is that additives either in the oil itself or added later is made from chemicals. Chemicals tend to be prone to thermal breakdown and cause contamination. The least amount of additives the better! That's one of the reasons why Mobil 1 and Amsoil rank best, they have a lot less additives added to the base oil.

Everyone has to get out of the thought that changing their oil sooner then the manufactures recommendation is going to provide better/more protection, especially with synthetic, it doesn't. Toyota and all the other manufactures get to write their on ticket on oil change intervals and determine the amount of miles that would insure long engine life. So if a manufacture decides that 7K miles is a safe amount, I'm sure they have added at least 25% (less) to that figure. Also that amount is based on the use of conventional oil. When synthetic oil first came out, the oil manufactures suggested 25K mile change intervals, to justify the cost increase. The auto industry took a fit, and convinced (change oil sooner sell more oil) the oil companies to change intervals back to conventional oil specs. Do you see where I’m going with this? Lab testing on Synthetic oil has shown that it can still provide safe protection with over 20K miles on it, so DON’T WASTE YOUR MONEY AND TIME changing synthetic oil less then 10K miles or one year. It’s just like using premium fuel when you can use regular.

As far a good reason to use synthetic based oil; every single aspect of synthetic oil is better then conventional oil. Things like; viscosity index, flash point, pour point, percentage of sulfated ash, percentage of zinc, much higher temp. oxidation resistance, high film strength, very low tendency to form deposits, stable viscosity base, and low temp. flow rate. The best and most important thing you can do to prolong your vehicles life is use synthetic fluids. I’ve replaced every fluid I could to synthetic, including the trans fluid (not cheap at $5 a quart). I even use synthetic grease.

Let me tell you a story about why I am so adamant about synthetics. Back in 1990 my cousin and I bought identical motorcycles (badest motorcycle on the planet at the time) on the same day. We picked them together, (he kept his in my garage) we road together, we broke them in together, and we serviced them together. During the break in we noticed things like the electric cooling fan kicking on at almost the same time and swapping bikes to see if they road the same. After the break in I decided to use Mobil 1 and my cousin decided on Castrol GTX motor oil for the first change. We changed the oil together (both bikes had the same mileage). Right after the change we were eager to let them rip so we headed for the highway. We had to cruise our local main street for about 3 to 4 miles. As soon as we started I noticed the lever for the gear selector felt funny (loose or something). When we reached the first red light my cousin’s cooling fan kicked on and mine didn’t. We got to the third light before my fan kicked on. So we get to the highway and we hit it and I start to pull on him very slowly. So after 2 or 3 roll-ons we swapped bikes to see if it was the bikes or our riding. As soon as I get on the other bike the first thing I notice is his bike is not shifting as easily. We do a couple roll-ons and he is walking me very slowly just like I was walking him before. So we get back home and the first thing my cousin says is your bike shifts better/easier. He then says he wants to change his oil to synthetic. Import motorcycles have the engine and tranny sharing the motor oil. We change the oil that day, and as soon as we start for a test run he’s telling me his tranny is shifting better. We get to the same first light and neither bike’s fan comes on. We get to the third light and within seconds of each other the fans kick-on for the first time. Sure enough we do a roll-on and are tied together.

First off, synthetic oil absorbs and dissipates heat better, the fans would take longer to kick-on and take longer between on cycles. The oil made the trans shift like butter, and apparently to motor produced a hair more power with synthetic oil. MY COUSIN AND I WERE SOLD!

Koz