Nunyabiz
New member
Nope there isn't any problem switching back & forth but I doubt that you will.
Especially if you put lots of miles on your 4runner quickly
synthetic vs. conventional
- Thread starter thorridder
- Start date
Nope there isn't any problem switching back & forth but I doubt that you will.
Especially if you put lots of miles on your 4runner quickly
quicksilvr
New member
Bottom line on this conversation between Nunyabiz and Singtoe:
Nunyabiz feels that his 4Runner deserves full synthetic. Singtoe feels his 4Runner works just fine with conventional. BOTH are correct...the problem is that everyone is trying to justify their feelings on this debate with numbers and fact and proof of this that or the other....when it's really all moot when each oil is used correctly.
Conventional oil, when changed regularly can easily lubricate and protect an engine for the life of the engine....and NOT be the cause of failure when the engine eventually dies or needs rebuilt. Some of the highest mileage engines in the world used conventional oil their whole life.
I just tore down a 100k mile engine that had used Quaker state conventional it's whole life, changed regularly. The engine and head look immaculate.
Synthetic is better. Conventional is plenty good enough. Its like playing a 3 man scramble in golf: yourself, Phil Mickelson and Dustin Johnson. Yes, Phil is better than Dustin...but Dustin works just peachy....cause he's still quite a bit better than necessary for playing the local tournament with amatuer golfers.
Nunyabiz feels that his 4Runner deserves full synthetic. Singtoe feels his 4Runner works just fine with conventional. BOTH are correct...the problem is that everyone is trying to justify their feelings on this debate with numbers and fact and proof of this that or the other....when it's really all moot when each oil is used correctly.
Conventional oil, when changed regularly can easily lubricate and protect an engine for the life of the engine....and NOT be the cause of failure when the engine eventually dies or needs rebuilt. Some of the highest mileage engines in the world used conventional oil their whole life.
I just tore down a 100k mile engine that had used Quaker state conventional it's whole life, changed regularly. The engine and head look immaculate.
Synthetic is better. Conventional is plenty good enough. Its like playing a 3 man scramble in golf: yourself, Phil Mickelson and Dustin Johnson. Yes, Phil is better than Dustin...but Dustin works just peachy....cause he's still quite a bit better than necessary for playing the local tournament with amatuer golfers.
IanB
New member
I've been using Motomaster Formula1 synthetic in all my vehicles for years now. It's made by Shell (as per MSDS sheet), it meets or exceeds GM's Corvette standards, for which Mobil1 is the factory fill, it is a full synthetic unlike Mobil1, and it goes on sale for as low as $16.99/4.4L jug. At that price, you get the benefit of synthetic, with the price of a quality dino-oil, it's a no brainer. I'm sure you guys in the US have a comparable option if you look around.
Sadly, it's not designed for diesel use, so I've been using Shell Rotella non-syn in the Surf, and I'll be doing 7500km intervals. Seems to be working just fine so far. I did use synthetic lubes for the diffs and transfer case when I changed them, and non-syn for the tranny when I did a few drain/fills.
Sadly, it's not designed for diesel use, so I've been using Shell Rotella non-syn in the Surf, and I'll be doing 7500km intervals. Seems to be working just fine so far. I did use synthetic lubes for the diffs and transfer case when I changed them, and non-syn for the tranny when I did a few drain/fills.
Nunyabiz
New member
econhonda
New member
Nice analogy. Now you're speaking my language...
Satter
New member
This is why I love this forum. I'm not a mechanic, or mechanically inclined. But, this just makes sense to me. This whole time I've been thinking of the old adage "If it ain't broke don't fix it."
Oil analysis
You know you can send your used oil off to Blackstone laboratories ( I think ), and have it analyzed for free. They will show you what properties are holding up well, where there are any concerns, etc. You can do this and monitor the results, therefore increasing your Oil Change Intervals.
Check out bobistheoilguy.com, some very interesting reading there on this age old debate. I recently read a post where a guy is using the Walmart brand SuperTech oil and getting results close to most name brand oils, conventional and synthetics.
It is of course a real personal type of thing. I grew up working on cars in the neighborhood with a local "elder" when I was in high school. He swore by Quaker State, so I in turn used Q.S. for years. As I grew older and eventually got access to this interweb thingy, I did a lot of research, usually while the wife was watching Idol or some other b.s. tv show. Quickly found out about Amsoil, etc.
I use synthetics my self, or synthetic blends. My last Ford recommended a synthetic blend in the owners manual. If you research it, test your used oil, and use what your preference and budget allow. It's your investment, protect it how you think is fit. Who am I to tell you what oil is right for you.
Most parts store labeled oil is good oil. Oreilly's uses Valvoline in many areas for instance, just bottled and priced as O'Reilly's. It's the same stuff in the bottle as the $1.50/qt higher valvoline.
These days the oils are all very good, conventional and synthetics.
Personally I like to protect my investments. I work hard for my money, and in my line of work, witness the affects of poor maintenance / hydraulic oil breakdown all the time. Heck, my John Deere lawn tractor has had Mobil 1 10W30 in it as soon as the manufacturer recommended "break in period" was thru. I change it every spring, and it looks as clean as the new stuff I am replacing it with. I don't think I would get that from any conventional oil.
No matter the performance of synthetics or conventional oils, I am still concerned in the performance of filters. I use Wix, or Napa Gold (produced by and same as Wix) always. If you have ever cut a few filters open you will see vast differences in the manufacturing qualities of the various brands. Wix is a very good filter hands down. Frams are crap.
If you had the best oil money and science could buy / manufacture, if your filter is crap, your engine is going to be in danger. I don't care what the properties of the oil is, if your filter cannot protect your engine from inherent dirt particles, your engine will be damaged.
Extended oil change intervals are great for those that choose to do so. I have the confidence in today's oils, just not so much in today's filters yet. I'm not saying you have to change it every 3,000 miles or else failure is eminent. I just feel that today's oils are more advanced and can last longer than the current filters and primarily today's engine's filtering systems. Today's filters will eventually go to bypass, once the filter media is completely full, then your oil is just traveling all through the engine unfiltered. Today's compact engine compartments allow for only screw on type filters, and as such, there is no good solution to this problem, other than going to a remote filtering, dry sump type system.
Sorry, that rambled on so long. I didn't intend for that.........
In the end, to each his own. I recommend testing used oil, and go from there. Don't cheap out on the filter!!!
You know you can send your used oil off to Blackstone laboratories ( I think ), and have it analyzed for free. They will show you what properties are holding up well, where there are any concerns, etc. You can do this and monitor the results, therefore increasing your Oil Change Intervals.
Check out bobistheoilguy.com, some very interesting reading there on this age old debate. I recently read a post where a guy is using the Walmart brand SuperTech oil and getting results close to most name brand oils, conventional and synthetics.
It is of course a real personal type of thing. I grew up working on cars in the neighborhood with a local "elder" when I was in high school. He swore by Quaker State, so I in turn used Q.S. for years. As I grew older and eventually got access to this interweb thingy, I did a lot of research, usually while the wife was watching Idol or some other b.s. tv show. Quickly found out about Amsoil, etc.
I use synthetics my self, or synthetic blends. My last Ford recommended a synthetic blend in the owners manual. If you research it, test your used oil, and use what your preference and budget allow. It's your investment, protect it how you think is fit. Who am I to tell you what oil is right for you.
Most parts store labeled oil is good oil. Oreilly's uses Valvoline in many areas for instance, just bottled and priced as O'Reilly's. It's the same stuff in the bottle as the $1.50/qt higher valvoline.
These days the oils are all very good, conventional and synthetics.
Personally I like to protect my investments. I work hard for my money, and in my line of work, witness the affects of poor maintenance / hydraulic oil breakdown all the time. Heck, my John Deere lawn tractor has had Mobil 1 10W30 in it as soon as the manufacturer recommended "break in period" was thru. I change it every spring, and it looks as clean as the new stuff I am replacing it with. I don't think I would get that from any conventional oil.
No matter the performance of synthetics or conventional oils, I am still concerned in the performance of filters. I use Wix, or Napa Gold (produced by and same as Wix) always. If you have ever cut a few filters open you will see vast differences in the manufacturing qualities of the various brands. Wix is a very good filter hands down. Frams are crap.
If you had the best oil money and science could buy / manufacture, if your filter is crap, your engine is going to be in danger. I don't care what the properties of the oil is, if your filter cannot protect your engine from inherent dirt particles, your engine will be damaged.
Extended oil change intervals are great for those that choose to do so. I have the confidence in today's oils, just not so much in today's filters yet. I'm not saying you have to change it every 3,000 miles or else failure is eminent. I just feel that today's oils are more advanced and can last longer than the current filters and primarily today's engine's filtering systems. Today's filters will eventually go to bypass, once the filter media is completely full, then your oil is just traveling all through the engine unfiltered. Today's compact engine compartments allow for only screw on type filters, and as such, there is no good solution to this problem, other than going to a remote filtering, dry sump type system.
Sorry, that rambled on so long. I didn't intend for that.........
In the end, to each his own. I recommend testing used oil, and go from there. Don't cheap out on the filter!!!
NOT ME OR SOMEBODY
New member
Amen to that........ Father in law says same things, he was Chemical Engineer for EXXON. 20-30 years.
I use synthetic in my air cooled push mower but the 4Runner gets regular oil and a TOYOTA filter every 5000 miles.
Orange Skullz
New member
PM me a bank statement showing me you've got $10g to lose Junior, and don't try any funny ****. My father-in-law is the retired Senior VP of a major Bank chain here in the Midwest/South. So if you give me a certain bank you can bet your ass I'll have it checked out.
Hell, you should have to "Pay Up" if its a 1/4 cup low...you said it didn't use a drop......correct?
And just for the record.....I run an oil temp guage on my bike....so I CAN INDEED BACK UP what I'm claiming....
You'll give me the "I swear it never used a drop of oil, something must be wrong".
This was the last FORD I owned, a '91 GT 5-speed. I sold it in '99 with 42,000 original miles....and guess what, It used a quart every 3500 miles. So I guess I lied about the 5000 miles claim, it was 3500.
I owned both these at the same time, the other vehicle is an '87 IROC 350 which I ordered new as with the '91 GT. I sold the IROC in 2005 with 20,200 original miles. Both those cars netted me damn near $30g when SOLD. Although I had about $37g in them. I "might" be able to come up with 10.
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Garage Guy
New member
No you can't.
They will send you a container for free, to send back your sample. Which you have to pay postage on. And if you want them to actually analyze it, it's $25.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php
Nunyabiz
New member
LOL Consumer reports is utterly worthless on things like this.
Number one they didn't even test a single full synthetic oil, and NO Mobil 1 is not fully synthetic it is a group III oil that is why at 7000 miles its pretty much had it.
What exact difference do you think there is going to be after just 60,000 miles while using a "Semi-Synthetic" Vs petroleum? They aren't all that much different.
That is one of the main gripes I have with Consumer Reports they only test a very select and small sampling of whatever it is they test.
That is why Sears Kenmore is always on top of the list with appliances even though Kenmore does not even make a single one, they are made by Whirlpool, LG, Samsung etc yet those companies that actually make the product miraculously never made the top of the list?
Not to mention there are numerous appliances they never test, like Gas Ranges for instance. The top one is of course a Kenmore for like $1800.
We bought a NXR gas range for $1800 which is WAYYYYYYY better than the Kenmore but if you go by CR you would never know that because they will never test a NXR range but the difference between the two is night & day.
There are at least 6-7 Ranges I can name off the top of my head that are far better but not according to CR because they don't even bother to test them.
Same goes for this bogus test which does not even use a single full synthetic oil.
Do a test like that changing the oil like it should be, 3000 miles for 1/2 the petroleum and 7-8000 using REAL synthetic oil and the other 1/2 of the petroleum oils and do it for 150,000 miles. THEN take those engines apart and see what it looks like.
All of the petroleum oils changed at 7000+ would be lucky to make it to 150K the other would be probably doing OK which basically shows that synthetic is at least 110% better oil than petroleum.
On some engines that run hot on the top end like my wifes Lexus ALL the petroleum oils would show signs of sludge more than likely no matter how often they are changed.
Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple, are true Synthetics Group IV & V oils. I am sure there are a few others but cant think of them right now.
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TheDurk
Elite Member
Here is a well-regarded post from BITOG that will serve to muddy the already turbid oil here:
true synthetic oil - Bob Is The Oil Guy
true synthetic oil - Bob Is The Oil Guy
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kball
New member
I use synthetics but not because I believe they make the engine last longer nesessarily. I believe the oils number one job is to keep metal to metal contact from happening. If conventional oils did not achieve that engines would fail due to oil all the time.
I do believe synthetics perform higher and are possibly overkill but... I did like this quote from Singtoe's link to Consumer Reports:
"One distinction: According to the laboratory tests, Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Performax synthetics flow exceptionally easily at low temperatures - a condition our taxi tests didn't simulate effectively. They also had the highest viscosity under high-temperature, high-stress conditions, when a thick oil protects the engine. Thus, these oils may be a good choice for hard driving in extreme temperatures."
So in cold or hot climates (or slow going off roading in hot weather) synthetics may have a noticeable advantage.
I think the CR article was put out long before extended performance oils were on the market but they still tested Mobil 1 in some of the cabs to 12000 miles and found (with the one engine that didn't have other issues) that there was no difference between the 12k engine and 6k engines.
I personally choose to use synthetics that are extended performance for the additives. It's the additives that allow more miles not the fact that it's synthetic.
Since I only change my oil once per year on my vehicles I save money over conventional oil. I can get 5 quarts and a filter for about $32-38 on sale. On my 4runner I also use the bigger size Mobil 1 M1-209 filter and it takes about 7 quarts to put it just above the fill line so I'm getting more oil in there as well.
If they made an extended performance conventional oil that was half the price of Mobil 1EP, Castrol Edge or Pennzoil Ultra I'd buy it but I haven't seen that on the shelves.
I do believe synthetics perform higher and are possibly overkill but... I did like this quote from Singtoe's link to Consumer Reports:
"One distinction: According to the laboratory tests, Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Performax synthetics flow exceptionally easily at low temperatures - a condition our taxi tests didn't simulate effectively. They also had the highest viscosity under high-temperature, high-stress conditions, when a thick oil protects the engine. Thus, these oils may be a good choice for hard driving in extreme temperatures."
So in cold or hot climates (or slow going off roading in hot weather) synthetics may have a noticeable advantage.
I think the CR article was put out long before extended performance oils were on the market but they still tested Mobil 1 in some of the cabs to 12000 miles and found (with the one engine that didn't have other issues) that there was no difference between the 12k engine and 6k engines.
I personally choose to use synthetics that are extended performance for the additives. It's the additives that allow more miles not the fact that it's synthetic.
Since I only change my oil once per year on my vehicles I save money over conventional oil. I can get 5 quarts and a filter for about $32-38 on sale. On my 4runner I also use the bigger size Mobil 1 M1-209 filter and it takes about 7 quarts to put it just above the fill line so I'm getting more oil in there as well.
If they made an extended performance conventional oil that was half the price of Mobil 1EP, Castrol Edge or Pennzoil Ultra I'd buy it but I haven't seen that on the shelves.
Saved
New member
PM me a bank statement showing me you've got $10g to lose Junior, and don't try any funny ****. My father-in-law is the retired Senior VP of a major Bank chain here in the Midwest/South. So if you give me a certain bank you can bet your ass I'll have it checked out.
Hell, you should have to "Pay Up" if its a 1/4 cup low...you said it didn't use a drop......correct?
And just for the record.....I run an oil temp guage on my bike....so I CAN INDEED BACK UP what I'm claiming....
You'll give me the "I swear it never used a drop of oil, something must be wrong".
This was the last FORD I owned, a '91 GT 5-speed. I sold it in '99 with 42,000 original miles....and guess what, It used a quart every 3500 miles. So I guess I lied about the 5000 miles claim, it was 3500.
I owned both these at the same time, the other vehicle is an '87 IROC 350 which I ordered new as with the '91 GT. I sold the IROC in 2005 with 20,200 original miles. Both those cars netted me damn near $30g when SOLD. Although I had about $37g in them. I "might" be able to come up with 10.
I would be as stupid as you to give you my account numbers. I will PM you with my phone numer and we will set up an account with a private party. We will both sign a contract to put the money in by a certain date or forfit a 500.00 dollar earnest money.
I have now sent the PM with contact information.
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Orange Skullz
New member
You can "black out" account numbers....:bash:
and pm sent back
I'm headed to Key West on 6/4 for a couple of weeks, for a small vacation with family & friends. I will contact you upon my return to Ohio.
and pm sent back
I'm headed to Key West on 6/4 for a couple of weeks, for a small vacation with family & friends. I will contact you upon my return to Ohio.
Satter
New member
Okay, here's my situation.
I don't do a lot of driving. 90% of all driving I do is quick start and stop trips in very hot and humid conditions. I've been going to the dealership to get my oil changed. They use Valvoline bulk. And they recommend every 5000 miles, which I've been doing now for quite some time. My 3G4R has 100,4XX on it. It runs pretty well. No problems.
My question is should change to synethic or keep doing what I've been doing?
I don't do a lot of driving. 90% of all driving I do is quick start and stop trips in very hot and humid conditions. I've been going to the dealership to get my oil changed. They use Valvoline bulk. And they recommend every 5000 miles, which I've been doing now for quite some time. My 3G4R has 100,4XX on it. It runs pretty well. No problems.
My question is should change to synethic or keep doing what I've been doing?
Singtoe
New member
You should research on your own and come to your conclusion. Some people will say switch to synthetic, some will say stick with conventional.
It is the same as tires, if you ask that question, people will push their opinions and sway one way or another.
