synthetic vs. conventional
- Thread starter thorridder
- Start date
4ganger
New member
Shell Rotella T6. Full synth. Meets every standard I want for cars, trucks & motorcycles, including my gxsr 750 race bike. Meets both car & motorcycle standards. Cost $20 a gallon at wallymarty or $24/gal at auto parts store.
I change it every 5000-6500 miles in the cars & trucks. It's not expensive so it is saving me money over time.
Bobistheoilguy. Lots of good info there. These arguments are like **** swinging contests. LoL. Read & believe what you want. For my money 24/gal will work just fine.
I change it every 5000-6500 miles in the cars & trucks. It's not expensive so it is saving me money over time.
Bobistheoilguy. Lots of good info there. These arguments are like **** swinging contests. LoL. Read & believe what you want. For my money 24/gal will work just fine.
Nunyabiz
New member
I would either start changing my petroleum at 3000 tops especially if its bulk Valvoline or start using semi synthetic (Mobil 1) to 6000 or so or full synthetic Amsoil, Redline etc to 8000 or so.
The full synthetics have a much higher TBN number so will last considerably longer.
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Nunyabiz
New member
The Shell Rotella T6 is a Group III+ oil (as is stated by a ex Shell employee on bobtheoilguy), still not a "full Synthetic" BUT I think probably a bit better than the Mobil 1 and for the price a better deal and changing at the intervals you do is really a perfect happy medium.
stanleybb50
New member
What's everyones opinion on Valvoline synthetic blend? That's all I've been using the past couple years. Just seeing everyones opinions, as you all know waaaaay more than I do. (And that's not sarcasm)
Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk
Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk
Nunyabiz
New member
Personally I would treat that like I would any petroleum based oil, change it at 3000 to 3500 tops and I am sure its fine, but I would not let it go much past that.
Far as I am concerned ANY & ALL petroleum based oils are about the same regardless who makes it some have slightly better additive packages that help a bit but all in all as far as change intervals I wouldn't let any of them go past 3000 miles and that goes for 'Synthetic Blends" which to me are basically like being partially pregnant. The blends give the possibility of a slightly better additive package is about it but the base oil is still petroleum no matter what.
There are several oils that say they are full synthetic but they are not, such as Mobil 1, Rotella T6 etc, they are blends of Group III and Group iV.
a True Full Synthetic starts with a fully synthetic base stock which is Group IV PAO or Group V Ester base.
The best IMO are the PAO/Ester Full synthetic blends which give the best qualities of both full synthetics, Amsoil is one of those.
Redline is a straight Group V which might be better suited for race engines or engines under extreme loads, harsh conditions.
and no matter what synthetic you use I wouldn't let any of them go much past about 8000-9000 miles unless you use a "By-Pass Oil Filter" because regardless how good the oil is without a really good filter it is just going to get dirty and start losing its properties.
With a really good by pass filter you could probably let Amsoil go 20,000 miles without any problems because you are going to burn oil and you are going to keep topping it off and adding fresh oil in which helps in rejuvenating the TBN.
If I were someone that drove a crapload of miles (like 3000) every month especially highway miles I would invest in a Bypass filter and probably do oil changes between 15-18,000 miles.
But for me I just do a change once a year which is around 8000 miles or less.
4ganger
New member
Plenty good for regular driving. The good thing about using synth-blend is if for some reason you need to add oil you can dump in almost anythng to top-up and be ok to get home and can change it.
I ran part-synth in my motorcycles and cars for years. Still changed it every 5000 mi with no problems and 100k+ on my old 4runner. Only reason I changed is b/c the T6 is about the same price or cheaper. Can't see a good reason to run anything more expensive that is less good.
Nunyabiz,
Where do you see that it is type III+? Shell advertises it as "Full Synthetic." Either way it doesn't matter to much to me. It is the least expensive oil I have found for my motorcycles that is JASO-MA approved (Japanes Association Motorcycle blah blah certification).
I want the JASO-MA approval for my race bike. CHange it after every 4-6 trackdays (it gets HOT!) & use it in my BMW F800GS daily driver since it is easier to have one oil than 3 brands/types. For the cars I havn't changed them over yet but probably will next oil change. Depending on if I do it or have it done. Around here in Reno I can have it done cheaper than I can buy the oil & parts to do it myself. Crazy.
TheDurk
Elite Member
I ran Valvoline Blend for the first nine years and 90k at a 5k OCI. I am firmly in the camp that 3K oil changes with modern oils, filters and engines are overkill. Guess what, I DID my UOA's and they always said I could go longer than 5k. (I use NAPA Gold filters in all my engines that take filters.)
I switched from the Valvoline Blend because the price of 'full' synthetics came down low enough that I could no longer justify not switching. I am currently running Castrol Syntec at 6500 OCI and Blackstone says I could go longer still. I choose not to. I am intrigued by the Rotella T6 and I may switch to a different synthetic. 6500 OCI I can pretty much cover by an April and November change schedule, which lets me do the changes in decent weather. I like that. (currently at 131k).
Nunyabiz
New member
Have seen in numerous places, one being from an exShell employee on the bobtheoilguy site that states it is actually Group III.
If you write Shell they will write back saying it is "proprietary" and will not answer the question.
Basically because of that BS lawsuit between Mobil and Castrol several years ago where Mobil tried to sue Castrol because they marketed their Syntec as "Full Synthetic" when it was clearly Group III.
naturally the nutbags on the court not knowing nor particularly caring what the hell group III is ruled in the favor of Castrol.
So in response to that we now have most of the companies marketing motor oils that are NOT full synthetic as full synthetic.
In fact several that WERE full synthetic actually started using the cheaper Group III base stock and kept the full synthetic name and charging full synthetic prices.
It is at least as good as Mobil 1 if not a bit better so at the intervals you change it at it is perfectly fine and a pretty good value.
BrianSD_42
New member
Sorry if this already got addressed but just what is a "good quality" filter? I have seen Toyota filter (which I use every time) cut open and it looks like a pretty damn good filter.
I saw a display of the Toyota filter and FRAM filters cut open and side-by-side; all I can say is WOW... I am never using a FRAM again.
But back to my question, just what is a good quality filter if not the Toyota part?
RE: SYN vs. standard oil .... I don't use synthetic. It seems like the only day-to-day gain is sparser oil changes. I change my oil every 5k without fail.
:spider:
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Nunyabiz
New member
Using just standard oil no more than 5000 miles I think the K&N oil filters are pretty good, either that or the Wix.
K&N Oil Filters - Oil Filters for Cars, Trucks, Motorcycles, ATV's, Boats, and more!
LittleCaesar
New member
Oversized oil filters I have used in the past have been Purolator PL20195, Mobil 1 M1-209, K&N HP-2009.
I think a good quality filter defintion is one that can be run for 10,000 miles or 1 year, whichever comes first due to the use of synthetic fibers in the construction of their filtering material. I have never seen an oil filter fail except for a Fram and a STP, which for both was over 15 years ago.
I run Castrol Syntec 0W-30 in my 4runner; I don't know if its base stock is Group III or IV. All I know is that this particualr oil runs well in my 4 runner. This engine is good enough to run everything from the conveniant store special to a Group V base stock like Redline (if I had the $$$ for the latter I would) and everything in between.
I think a good quality filter defintion is one that can be run for 10,000 miles or 1 year, whichever comes first due to the use of synthetic fibers in the construction of their filtering material. I have never seen an oil filter fail except for a Fram and a STP, which for both was over 15 years ago.
I run Castrol Syntec 0W-30 in my 4runner; I don't know if its base stock is Group III or IV. All I know is that this particualr oil runs well in my 4 runner. This engine is good enough to run everything from the conveniant store special to a Group V base stock like Redline (if I had the $$$ for the latter I would) and everything in between.
I have a 98 4Runner with 250,000 miles on it.
first 100k I used regular oil, changed at 7500 miles. I changed to mobil 1 and change at 10,000 miles after 100,000 miles.
I had a rear engine seal leak around 190,000 miles. I do not use any oil duriing the 10,000 mile change.
I use mobil 1 to extend my changes to every 10,000 miles. It takes me about 5 months to put on that many miles...
hope this helps.
first 100k I used regular oil, changed at 7500 miles. I changed to mobil 1 and change at 10,000 miles after 100,000 miles.
I had a rear engine seal leak around 190,000 miles. I do not use any oil duriing the 10,000 mile change.
I use mobil 1 to extend my changes to every 10,000 miles. It takes me about 5 months to put on that many miles...
hope this helps.
Singtoe
New member
You have a rear main seal leak and it doesn't use any oil in 10,000 miles. This is very unbelievable.
Correct, hence the (I think). Good catch.
legokcen
Member
Here's an article I just got on Synthetic vs Conventional. Pretty informative. It's from Grassroots Motorsports. Sorry, it's a cut and paste....
Beat the Heat Synthetic or Conventional Oil
Preparing a car for any type of motorsports competition is an exacting exercise. The difference between winning and just running in an event can often be measured in the thousandths of a second, so competitors need to eke every last ounce of performance from their vehicles. That’s why even minor ingredients in the performance equation—like different engine lubricants—can be extremely important. An engine that runs too hot will wear more quickly, produce less power, and be more prone to failure. The right lubricant can help keep it cool.
The modern automobile engine has made great developmental strides in the last couple of decades; this has placed new demands on engine lubricants. The oil industry’s response has been to develop a new generation of high-quality, high-tech oils based on synthetic base molecules. These new oils last longer, develop more engine power, and are significantly more durable than standard petroleum oils. Many people seem to think that the claims made by these new “wonder oils” are too good to believe, however; this has cast a shadow over the reputation of synthetic oil. Even among motorsports enthusiasts, there is great confusion as to what synthetic oils are, how they are made, and just how they compare to petroleum oils.
In order to learn more about synthetic oils, we traveled to the production facilities of the most respected synthetic oil manufacturers: Red Line Synthetic Oil Corp,, Valvoline, and Bel-Ray Total Performance Lubricants.
Red Line has been in business for quite some time now; and the company’s synthetic oils, lubricants, and additives are used by more national racing champions than any other. In fact, at the 1989 SCCA Valvoline Runoffs, more than half of the winning drivers were using Red Line products.
Valvoline is also no stranger to the winner’s circle; this company’s products have helped to place drivers like Al Unser, Jr., Bobby Rahal, Mark Martin, and Dorsey Schroeder at the top of their fields. Now, after ten years of intensive development, Valvoline is releasing its own line of synthetic motor oils, gear oils and greases.
Bel-Ray has been producing specialty lubricants for more than 40 years. This manufacturer has provided lubricants for NASA’s moonwalker, nuclear submarines, tanks, aircraft carrier catapults, and mining equipment weighing 40,000,000 (as in million) pounds. Bel-Ray lubricants are also used heavily in the motorcycle and automotive racing arenas.
Synthetic Oil Construction
Synthetic oils can be derived from several sources, but the most stable are derived from polyol ester bases. These bases are laboratory creations; to make them chemists break apart the molecules that make up a variety substances, like vegetable and animal oils, and then recombine the individual atoms that make up those molecules to make new, synthetic molecules. This process allows the chemists to actually “fine tune” the molecules as they build them. As a result, synthetic molecules are often much more stable—less prone to break apart—than the original molecules. For instance, the molecules of most synthetic oil bases contain no reactive carbon atoms; this is because reactive carbon has a tendency to combine with other elements—like oxygen, to make acids—which makes them unstable, especially at high temperatures. So, in a sense, synthetic oil bases are made up of purpose-built molecules; and like purpose-built race cars, they tend to be streamlined, with no unneeded ingredients or added bulk.
Once the synthetic polyol ester bases are created, anti-wear additives are added. The most common of these are the zinc dithiophosphates, which are essentially combinations of zinc, phosphorus, and sulfur molecules. These combinations are extremely effective as anti-oxidant, anti-wear, anti-corrosion inhibitors. They have good thermal stability, but must be blended in such a way that the ingredients react at the proper temperature.
After that, other additives are added to control rust and foaming, contain foreign particles, etc., until the oil meets the requirements of its intended application.
Each oil manufacturer takes a slightly different approach to producing their synthetic lubricants, but all are guided by the three basic functions of engine lubricants: Friction reduction, heat removal, and containment of contaminants. Let’s take a look at how engine oils provide these functions.
Friction Reduction
Friction reduction can be define as the action of maintaining a lubricant between two surfaces that are moving with respect to one another, which avoids a collision of the two surfaces and the resultant damage. The better the lubricant is, the better its friction reduction abilities. Since friction produces heat as well as wear and tear, a good lubricant will reduce overall heat buildup in the engine. This item is especially important, because friction produces a significant portion of the heat generated in the process of operating an engine. Lower operating temperatures will also benefit the lubricant, enabling it to remain more stable and less prone to oxidation. (More on this later in the story.)
Any discussion of a lubricant’s friction-reducing properties must also examine its ability to provide Hydrodynamic Lubrication. This condition is present when two interacting metal surfaces are successfully kept apart by a lubricating layer, which eliminates the friction between the surfaces. This can be done mechanically: In the combination of a cylindrical journal and bearing, the rotary shaft acts as a pump which maintains the film of lubricant. The journal floats on a thin film of oil of an equilibrium thickness between the oil input and oil leakage, mostly at the bearing ends. In a situation like this, any friction present is caused by the molecular friction occurring within the lubricant—i.e., its viscosity.
Viscosity can be defined as a fluid’s resistance to flowing freely as a result of its internal molecular construction. Viscosity is perhaps the most important property of a lubricant. It controls the formation of lubricating films under both thick and thin film conditions. It affects heat buildup, governs the sealing effect of oils and oil consumption, and significantly affects engine startup at extreme temperatures.
Multi-grade ratings of petroleum oils are made by adding polymeric plastic thickeners to an oil with a very light viscosity. An example of this is 10W-40 oil, which is created by thickening a 10W oil to the equivalent of an SAE 40W oil at 212 degrees F. The reason a 10W oil is used is to maintain low viscosity at low temperatures; this helps with engine startup and cold weather performance. The thickeners increase viscosity at higher temperatures. Unfortunately, when the large molecules of the polymer thickeners encounter a high-stress area, like a bearing, these big molecules tend to align themselves to create a path of least resistance. This greatly reduces the film strength of the oil; the result can be an apparent viscosity that is much lower than the viscosity listed on the container. In fact, a standard 10W-40 oil, when subjected to high stress, may perform to SAE 20 specifications, simply because the added thickeners cannot cope with the additional stress.
Synthetic oils require no thickeners to achieve multi-grade ratings because they are constructed from naturally multi-graded basestocks. In addition, the actual shape of synthetic oil base molecules enables those synthetis to maintain a much higher viscosity under stress. Because of this, most synthetics provide significantly greater viscosity than petroleum oils under high speed conditions.
It is even more important that an oil provide a seal between the piston rings and cylinder walls to ensure maximum compression on the stroke. Most petroleum oils will allow blow-by because their weaker viscosity allows high-pressure gasses to escape into the crankcase area. Modern synthetic oils, on the other hand, prevent blow-by due to better viscosity.
For example, Red Line claims that its 10W-30 Racing Oil will not only outperform 20W-50 petroleum oils, its less dense molecular structure also makes for significantly less viscosity friction within the engine. Bel-Ray has developed a 5/60 weight oil to handle the extreme demands of high-revving motorcycle engines, while Valvoline has concentrated more on automobiles with its 10/30 and 20/50 offerings. In each case, the superior structure of synthetics means better protection. This also help in cold-start situations, where oil circulation is critical.
The Additive Alternative
As we’ve seen, oil is no simple matter. The different manufacturers have spent countless dollars and man-hours in search of the perfect product, one that combines long life with excellent friction reduction, heat removal, and assorted other properties. The most important of these properties is friction reduction, however, so it’s not surprising that a few manufacturers have concentrated on optimizing that single feature through engine “aids” or additives.
In this area, one particular company—the Molydyne Corporation—has made a name for itself in the high-performance marketplace. This Atascadero, California, based company offers a number of additives and greases for automotive and industrial uses; these are marketed under the trademarked name of “Mr. Moly.”
How do additives differ from synthetic oils? First, just as their name implies, additives are not meant as replacements for motor oils; the function only as supplements. Mr. Moly “Engine Aide” is a colloidal suspension of .5 micron Molybdenum-Disulphide in a high-grade multi-viscosity engine oil together with anti-foaming agents and corrosion inhibitors. This high-tech additive is not an oil modifier or polymer (nor does it contain PFTE or Teflon, which has been judge by its developer, DuPont, to have little or no value in internal combustion engines). Mr. Moly is designed to be compatible with both petroleum-based and synthetic motor oils.
The purpose behind Mr. Moly is to provide a thin layer of Molybdenum-Disulphide (or “Moly”) between moving parts, such as cylinder walls and rings, timing chains and gears, cams and lifters, crankshafts and bearings, etc. Moly is used because of its ability to remain chemically inert, yet it can be made to plate onto metal surfaces under conditions of pressure and/or heat. This chemical has been likened to fish scales, which are strong and tough when tipped on end, but smooth and slippery when laid over on their sides. All of this means that Moly is extremely slippery, and will improve the friction characteristics of an engine.
Unlike conventional motor oils, Mr. Moly is sold in eight ounce cans, which are each sufficient to treat up to five quarts of oil and will last for 6,000 miles of use. At about $6.00 a can, Mr. Moly would seem to be a cost-effective alternative to synthetic oils, but this is really an apples-to-oranges comparison. An oil supplement is just that, a supplement, and will only assist the oil you’re already using. If the oil you’re starting with is inadequate, supplements won’t make it right. It’s the old sow’s ear/silk purse argument all over again. Mr. Moly can be used to supplant the capabilities of synthetic oils, or it can be used with the more cost-effective solutions. The choice is yours.
Heat Removal
While most the engine’s hear is absorbed by the cooling system, about ten to twenty percent of engine heat is absorbed by the oil. Furthermore, engine oil is the principal coolant for the pistons, main bearings, rod bearings and camshaft. The oil must be able to absorb the heat, store it, and release it without ever compromising its own stability. The rate at which this absorption, storage and release occur is known as the heat transfer coefficient. The faster the rate, the better the oil.
Oils also have a heat capacity, which is the amount of heat the oil can absorb before a change in the overall oil temperature occurs. Much of this has to do with the polarity of the oil. Polarity is a characteristic of the individual molecules that make up an element; it helps determine the stability of those molecules, and therefore that element. Synthetic oils are more stable than conventional petroleum oils under high temperatures; this enables synthetics to out-perform their petroleum counterparts by approximately 10 percent in the area of heat transfer. Furthermore, it means synthetics will absorb 5-10 percent more heat before a change in oil temperature occurs.
Petroleum oils are not only less efficient at removing heat, they also begin to break down significantly above 275 degrees F. Unfortunately, temperatures at high stress areas within the engine—like cam and follower contact areas, pistons, etc.—can routinely exceed 400 degrees F. Petroleum oils may boil away, or vaporize, a those temperatures, leaving high stress areas without adequate protection.
In addition, conventional petroleum oils react with oxygen at high temperatures to form acids, which then combine to form varnish deposits that coat the metal. The varnish deposits formed by this process, which is called oxidation, will reduce the ability to transfer heat, and will build up to cause sludge and ring sticking.
Remember, synthetic bases are more stable partly because they are formulated without reactive carbons, which have a tendency to react with oxygen. The more stable molecular structure of modern synthetic oils enables these products to resist this harmful oxidation, as well as vaporization. Red Line‘s synthetic motor oil, for example, will still lubricate at temperatures in excess of 700° F. This resistance to breakdown means a cleaner oil, and a more durable one.
Containment of Contaminants
Another important function of oils is to contain and retain contaminants within the engine. Engine combustion can leave behind byproducts, like partially burned gasoline, water, dirt, etc.; it is the oil‘s job to contain these contaminants and prevent them from doing harm to the engine. Oils contain these particles through the use of additives called dispersants. These chemicals encircle foreign particles and prevent them from coagulating with others; this lessens their effect by helping to prevent clumping, plating and varnishing.
Most synthetic oils are formulated to contain significantly more dispersants than conventional petroleum oils; this means that synthetics can be used for much longer drain intervals. Their greater dispersancy also makes synthetics a better choice for engines that are driven only a few miles at a time. Unburned fuel is more likely to build up into sludge and varnish in engines that do not regularly reach operating temperatures. If this fuel is not vaporized by heat, the oil needs to be able to contain and isolate the fuel particles before they get a chance to build up.
The combination of better stability and dispersancy enables synthetic oils to maintain much longer oil change intervals than conventional petroleum oils. For example, Bel-Ray says its EXS synthetic can remain in service for upwards of 15,000 to 20,000 miles of non-racing use, provided an oil analysis program is in effect to monitor critical engine functions.
Another factor that makes synthetic oils long-drain lubricants is their better oxidation stability. As mentioned, synthetics do not break down as much at high temperatures as their conventional petroleum-based counterparts; this means synthetics produce less varnish and sludge, which shorten the life of an oil.
Conclusion
Whether you’re building a high-performance engine for your race car, or are driving the latest in high-tech hardware, chances are good that performance and reliability will be greatly enhanced by the latest synthetic lubricants. Synthetics have been proven to increase horsepower, lower engine operating temperatures, increase gas mileage, and dramatically extend the life of your engine. Translated, that means more trips to the winner’s circle, as well as more satisfaction down the road.
The Price Tag
Synthetics versus petroluems: A realistic cost-benefit analysis of synthetic oils
When it comes to technology, there’s always a price to pay. If you want the biggest, the fastest, or the best, you can bank on the fact that it’s going to cost you more. Just as there are folks who are happy with a 10-inch black and white TV instead of a gargantuan wide-screen sensory assault weapon, however, some car owners look at the added cost of running synthetic oils and question just how much better these products will perform. After all, automobiles have been running with various combinations of dinosaur bodies for decades with little trouble, so why switch?
Well, let’s first look at the basic cost of synthetic oil versus petroleum-based oil. A bottle of Red Line Synthetic Oil costs about $7.25 a quart, while the average petroleum oil clicks the register at about $1.50 per quart. This means the average five-quart engine would ring up a purchase of about $36.25 versus $7.50. At face value, it would appear that synthetics demand a much higher investment; but let’s probe deeper.
First drainage intervals are usually doubled, sometimes tripled, with the use of synthetic oils. This means that for every $36.25 spent on synthetics, $15.00 to $22.50 worth of petroleum oils must be purchased to attain comparable mileage figures.
Next, take into account the performance properties of synthetics. Their superior protective abilities can greatly increase the life expectancy of a street-driven engine. On the race track, this can mean fewer rebuilds within a given racing season—plus more horsepower. In addition, synthetics have demonstrated their abilities to reduce the amount of damage, should a catastrophic engine failure occur.
In layman’s terms, this could mean the difference between driving the family truckster 200,000 miles without failure, or giving it up to terminal engine failure at 125,000 miles. It could also mean an engine that holds together for that last lap (or run) to give you the win. Bottom line: fewer rebuilds mean you spend a whole heck of a lot less money down the road.
If it seems as if we’re pushing for synthetics, it’s because we are convinced the long-term benefits more than overwhelm the higher initial cost. In fact considering how much synthetics do for the money, they’re a downright bargain. So, as that transmission commercial suggests, you can pay ‘em now, or you can pay ‘em later. We’ll take our ounce of prevention now, thank you—preferably in something polyol-ester, and neatly packaged in a one-quart bottle.
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Beat the Heat Synthetic or Conventional Oil
Preparing a car for any type of motorsports competition is an exacting exercise. The difference between winning and just running in an event can often be measured in the thousandths of a second, so competitors need to eke every last ounce of performance from their vehicles. That’s why even minor ingredients in the performance equation—like different engine lubricants—can be extremely important. An engine that runs too hot will wear more quickly, produce less power, and be more prone to failure. The right lubricant can help keep it cool.
The modern automobile engine has made great developmental strides in the last couple of decades; this has placed new demands on engine lubricants. The oil industry’s response has been to develop a new generation of high-quality, high-tech oils based on synthetic base molecules. These new oils last longer, develop more engine power, and are significantly more durable than standard petroleum oils. Many people seem to think that the claims made by these new “wonder oils” are too good to believe, however; this has cast a shadow over the reputation of synthetic oil. Even among motorsports enthusiasts, there is great confusion as to what synthetic oils are, how they are made, and just how they compare to petroleum oils.
In order to learn more about synthetic oils, we traveled to the production facilities of the most respected synthetic oil manufacturers: Red Line Synthetic Oil Corp,, Valvoline, and Bel-Ray Total Performance Lubricants.
Red Line has been in business for quite some time now; and the company’s synthetic oils, lubricants, and additives are used by more national racing champions than any other. In fact, at the 1989 SCCA Valvoline Runoffs, more than half of the winning drivers were using Red Line products.
Valvoline is also no stranger to the winner’s circle; this company’s products have helped to place drivers like Al Unser, Jr., Bobby Rahal, Mark Martin, and Dorsey Schroeder at the top of their fields. Now, after ten years of intensive development, Valvoline is releasing its own line of synthetic motor oils, gear oils and greases.
Bel-Ray has been producing specialty lubricants for more than 40 years. This manufacturer has provided lubricants for NASA’s moonwalker, nuclear submarines, tanks, aircraft carrier catapults, and mining equipment weighing 40,000,000 (as in million) pounds. Bel-Ray lubricants are also used heavily in the motorcycle and automotive racing arenas.
Synthetic Oil Construction
Synthetic oils can be derived from several sources, but the most stable are derived from polyol ester bases. These bases are laboratory creations; to make them chemists break apart the molecules that make up a variety substances, like vegetable and animal oils, and then recombine the individual atoms that make up those molecules to make new, synthetic molecules. This process allows the chemists to actually “fine tune” the molecules as they build them. As a result, synthetic molecules are often much more stable—less prone to break apart—than the original molecules. For instance, the molecules of most synthetic oil bases contain no reactive carbon atoms; this is because reactive carbon has a tendency to combine with other elements—like oxygen, to make acids—which makes them unstable, especially at high temperatures. So, in a sense, synthetic oil bases are made up of purpose-built molecules; and like purpose-built race cars, they tend to be streamlined, with no unneeded ingredients or added bulk.
Once the synthetic polyol ester bases are created, anti-wear additives are added. The most common of these are the zinc dithiophosphates, which are essentially combinations of zinc, phosphorus, and sulfur molecules. These combinations are extremely effective as anti-oxidant, anti-wear, anti-corrosion inhibitors. They have good thermal stability, but must be blended in such a way that the ingredients react at the proper temperature.
After that, other additives are added to control rust and foaming, contain foreign particles, etc., until the oil meets the requirements of its intended application.
Each oil manufacturer takes a slightly different approach to producing their synthetic lubricants, but all are guided by the three basic functions of engine lubricants: Friction reduction, heat removal, and containment of contaminants. Let’s take a look at how engine oils provide these functions.
Friction Reduction
Friction reduction can be define as the action of maintaining a lubricant between two surfaces that are moving with respect to one another, which avoids a collision of the two surfaces and the resultant damage. The better the lubricant is, the better its friction reduction abilities. Since friction produces heat as well as wear and tear, a good lubricant will reduce overall heat buildup in the engine. This item is especially important, because friction produces a significant portion of the heat generated in the process of operating an engine. Lower operating temperatures will also benefit the lubricant, enabling it to remain more stable and less prone to oxidation. (More on this later in the story.)
Any discussion of a lubricant’s friction-reducing properties must also examine its ability to provide Hydrodynamic Lubrication. This condition is present when two interacting metal surfaces are successfully kept apart by a lubricating layer, which eliminates the friction between the surfaces. This can be done mechanically: In the combination of a cylindrical journal and bearing, the rotary shaft acts as a pump which maintains the film of lubricant. The journal floats on a thin film of oil of an equilibrium thickness between the oil input and oil leakage, mostly at the bearing ends. In a situation like this, any friction present is caused by the molecular friction occurring within the lubricant—i.e., its viscosity.
Viscosity can be defined as a fluid’s resistance to flowing freely as a result of its internal molecular construction. Viscosity is perhaps the most important property of a lubricant. It controls the formation of lubricating films under both thick and thin film conditions. It affects heat buildup, governs the sealing effect of oils and oil consumption, and significantly affects engine startup at extreme temperatures.
Multi-grade ratings of petroleum oils are made by adding polymeric plastic thickeners to an oil with a very light viscosity. An example of this is 10W-40 oil, which is created by thickening a 10W oil to the equivalent of an SAE 40W oil at 212 degrees F. The reason a 10W oil is used is to maintain low viscosity at low temperatures; this helps with engine startup and cold weather performance. The thickeners increase viscosity at higher temperatures. Unfortunately, when the large molecules of the polymer thickeners encounter a high-stress area, like a bearing, these big molecules tend to align themselves to create a path of least resistance. This greatly reduces the film strength of the oil; the result can be an apparent viscosity that is much lower than the viscosity listed on the container. In fact, a standard 10W-40 oil, when subjected to high stress, may perform to SAE 20 specifications, simply because the added thickeners cannot cope with the additional stress.
Synthetic oils require no thickeners to achieve multi-grade ratings because they are constructed from naturally multi-graded basestocks. In addition, the actual shape of synthetic oil base molecules enables those synthetis to maintain a much higher viscosity under stress. Because of this, most synthetics provide significantly greater viscosity than petroleum oils under high speed conditions.
It is even more important that an oil provide a seal between the piston rings and cylinder walls to ensure maximum compression on the stroke. Most petroleum oils will allow blow-by because their weaker viscosity allows high-pressure gasses to escape into the crankcase area. Modern synthetic oils, on the other hand, prevent blow-by due to better viscosity.
For example, Red Line claims that its 10W-30 Racing Oil will not only outperform 20W-50 petroleum oils, its less dense molecular structure also makes for significantly less viscosity friction within the engine. Bel-Ray has developed a 5/60 weight oil to handle the extreme demands of high-revving motorcycle engines, while Valvoline has concentrated more on automobiles with its 10/30 and 20/50 offerings. In each case, the superior structure of synthetics means better protection. This also help in cold-start situations, where oil circulation is critical.
The Additive Alternative
As we’ve seen, oil is no simple matter. The different manufacturers have spent countless dollars and man-hours in search of the perfect product, one that combines long life with excellent friction reduction, heat removal, and assorted other properties. The most important of these properties is friction reduction, however, so it’s not surprising that a few manufacturers have concentrated on optimizing that single feature through engine “aids” or additives.
In this area, one particular company—the Molydyne Corporation—has made a name for itself in the high-performance marketplace. This Atascadero, California, based company offers a number of additives and greases for automotive and industrial uses; these are marketed under the trademarked name of “Mr. Moly.”
How do additives differ from synthetic oils? First, just as their name implies, additives are not meant as replacements for motor oils; the function only as supplements. Mr. Moly “Engine Aide” is a colloidal suspension of .5 micron Molybdenum-Disulphide in a high-grade multi-viscosity engine oil together with anti-foaming agents and corrosion inhibitors. This high-tech additive is not an oil modifier or polymer (nor does it contain PFTE or Teflon, which has been judge by its developer, DuPont, to have little or no value in internal combustion engines). Mr. Moly is designed to be compatible with both petroleum-based and synthetic motor oils.
The purpose behind Mr. Moly is to provide a thin layer of Molybdenum-Disulphide (or “Moly”) between moving parts, such as cylinder walls and rings, timing chains and gears, cams and lifters, crankshafts and bearings, etc. Moly is used because of its ability to remain chemically inert, yet it can be made to plate onto metal surfaces under conditions of pressure and/or heat. This chemical has been likened to fish scales, which are strong and tough when tipped on end, but smooth and slippery when laid over on their sides. All of this means that Moly is extremely slippery, and will improve the friction characteristics of an engine.
Unlike conventional motor oils, Mr. Moly is sold in eight ounce cans, which are each sufficient to treat up to five quarts of oil and will last for 6,000 miles of use. At about $6.00 a can, Mr. Moly would seem to be a cost-effective alternative to synthetic oils, but this is really an apples-to-oranges comparison. An oil supplement is just that, a supplement, and will only assist the oil you’re already using. If the oil you’re starting with is inadequate, supplements won’t make it right. It’s the old sow’s ear/silk purse argument all over again. Mr. Moly can be used to supplant the capabilities of synthetic oils, or it can be used with the more cost-effective solutions. The choice is yours.
Heat Removal
While most the engine’s hear is absorbed by the cooling system, about ten to twenty percent of engine heat is absorbed by the oil. Furthermore, engine oil is the principal coolant for the pistons, main bearings, rod bearings and camshaft. The oil must be able to absorb the heat, store it, and release it without ever compromising its own stability. The rate at which this absorption, storage and release occur is known as the heat transfer coefficient. The faster the rate, the better the oil.
Oils also have a heat capacity, which is the amount of heat the oil can absorb before a change in the overall oil temperature occurs. Much of this has to do with the polarity of the oil. Polarity is a characteristic of the individual molecules that make up an element; it helps determine the stability of those molecules, and therefore that element. Synthetic oils are more stable than conventional petroleum oils under high temperatures; this enables synthetics to out-perform their petroleum counterparts by approximately 10 percent in the area of heat transfer. Furthermore, it means synthetics will absorb 5-10 percent more heat before a change in oil temperature occurs.
Petroleum oils are not only less efficient at removing heat, they also begin to break down significantly above 275 degrees F. Unfortunately, temperatures at high stress areas within the engine—like cam and follower contact areas, pistons, etc.—can routinely exceed 400 degrees F. Petroleum oils may boil away, or vaporize, a those temperatures, leaving high stress areas without adequate protection.
In addition, conventional petroleum oils react with oxygen at high temperatures to form acids, which then combine to form varnish deposits that coat the metal. The varnish deposits formed by this process, which is called oxidation, will reduce the ability to transfer heat, and will build up to cause sludge and ring sticking.
Remember, synthetic bases are more stable partly because they are formulated without reactive carbons, which have a tendency to react with oxygen. The more stable molecular structure of modern synthetic oils enables these products to resist this harmful oxidation, as well as vaporization. Red Line‘s synthetic motor oil, for example, will still lubricate at temperatures in excess of 700° F. This resistance to breakdown means a cleaner oil, and a more durable one.
Containment of Contaminants
Another important function of oils is to contain and retain contaminants within the engine. Engine combustion can leave behind byproducts, like partially burned gasoline, water, dirt, etc.; it is the oil‘s job to contain these contaminants and prevent them from doing harm to the engine. Oils contain these particles through the use of additives called dispersants. These chemicals encircle foreign particles and prevent them from coagulating with others; this lessens their effect by helping to prevent clumping, plating and varnishing.
Most synthetic oils are formulated to contain significantly more dispersants than conventional petroleum oils; this means that synthetics can be used for much longer drain intervals. Their greater dispersancy also makes synthetics a better choice for engines that are driven only a few miles at a time. Unburned fuel is more likely to build up into sludge and varnish in engines that do not regularly reach operating temperatures. If this fuel is not vaporized by heat, the oil needs to be able to contain and isolate the fuel particles before they get a chance to build up.
The combination of better stability and dispersancy enables synthetic oils to maintain much longer oil change intervals than conventional petroleum oils. For example, Bel-Ray says its EXS synthetic can remain in service for upwards of 15,000 to 20,000 miles of non-racing use, provided an oil analysis program is in effect to monitor critical engine functions.
Another factor that makes synthetic oils long-drain lubricants is their better oxidation stability. As mentioned, synthetics do not break down as much at high temperatures as their conventional petroleum-based counterparts; this means synthetics produce less varnish and sludge, which shorten the life of an oil.
Conclusion
Whether you’re building a high-performance engine for your race car, or are driving the latest in high-tech hardware, chances are good that performance and reliability will be greatly enhanced by the latest synthetic lubricants. Synthetics have been proven to increase horsepower, lower engine operating temperatures, increase gas mileage, and dramatically extend the life of your engine. Translated, that means more trips to the winner’s circle, as well as more satisfaction down the road.
The Price Tag
Synthetics versus petroluems: A realistic cost-benefit analysis of synthetic oils
When it comes to technology, there’s always a price to pay. If you want the biggest, the fastest, or the best, you can bank on the fact that it’s going to cost you more. Just as there are folks who are happy with a 10-inch black and white TV instead of a gargantuan wide-screen sensory assault weapon, however, some car owners look at the added cost of running synthetic oils and question just how much better these products will perform. After all, automobiles have been running with various combinations of dinosaur bodies for decades with little trouble, so why switch?
Well, let’s first look at the basic cost of synthetic oil versus petroleum-based oil. A bottle of Red Line Synthetic Oil costs about $7.25 a quart, while the average petroleum oil clicks the register at about $1.50 per quart. This means the average five-quart engine would ring up a purchase of about $36.25 versus $7.50. At face value, it would appear that synthetics demand a much higher investment; but let’s probe deeper.
First drainage intervals are usually doubled, sometimes tripled, with the use of synthetic oils. This means that for every $36.25 spent on synthetics, $15.00 to $22.50 worth of petroleum oils must be purchased to attain comparable mileage figures.
Next, take into account the performance properties of synthetics. Their superior protective abilities can greatly increase the life expectancy of a street-driven engine. On the race track, this can mean fewer rebuilds within a given racing season—plus more horsepower. In addition, synthetics have demonstrated their abilities to reduce the amount of damage, should a catastrophic engine failure occur.
In layman’s terms, this could mean the difference between driving the family truckster 200,000 miles without failure, or giving it up to terminal engine failure at 125,000 miles. It could also mean an engine that holds together for that last lap (or run) to give you the win. Bottom line: fewer rebuilds mean you spend a whole heck of a lot less money down the road.
If it seems as if we’re pushing for synthetics, it’s because we are convinced the long-term benefits more than overwhelm the higher initial cost. In fact considering how much synthetics do for the money, they’re a downright bargain. So, as that transmission commercial suggests, you can pay ‘em now, or you can pay ‘em later. We’ll take our ounce of prevention now, thank you—preferably in something polyol-ester, and neatly packaged in a one-quart bottle.
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Nunyabiz
New member
This is a key point I was trying to make with the flash point and heat handling properties of synthetic.
Very good write up of the huge differences between petroleum based oil Vs Synthetics.
Which is basically like I have been saying, synthetic oil handles HEAT better, controls it, lubricates better so less heat is built up in the first place and very importantly retains its viscosity FAR better in high heat/pressure/stress situations inside the engine. Thus you have far less blow by from combustion and the oil stays cleaner longer and you get all the power you can out of the engine.
That is why in my old Baja Bug from many years ago the synthetic oil was the only solution that worked, my engine ran cooler, no loss of power.
I had leaks start when I switched to synthetic on my 2005 4runner.
I switched back to dino and the leaks eventually stopped.
I only use and gone back to a good conventional brand now. I live in Nassau Bahamas and trips are short - like 5 miles. 4runner hardly gets hot on short trips. I changed the coolant one time to the good stuff (7 years) a year ago. Write the dates down or keep receipts. 4 runners hold a little over 2 gallons of coolant.
Synthetic isn't necessary or even desirable IMO. I get more oil leaks on synthetic. My 15 year old 4runner V6 has no oil leaks, but shows a little oil sweating around the gaskets. I don't like engines that leak. My Cadillac Northstar V8 leaked oil after three years. It ran well, but sold it early because of the leaks.
I believe my 4runner engine (4.0) made a bit more noise on synthetic. Oil pressure was good - and I was surprised as synthetic 10W-30 is thin-looking compared to conventional 10W-30 (if I remember).
I won't try synthetic again. I will change the conventional oil at 5,000 miles to get the dirty oil out, and new fresh oil in there. Dirt and combusted gasoline is going to end up in your oil every 5000 miles no matter what lubricant you use.
I do my own oil and filter in the driveway. Any idiot can do this.
Just watch out for an "overheat". One good overheat can ruin an engine. Check your overfill coolant tank once a week. Watch for water under the car. Only your AC should drip on the ground.
BTW.. I ran around in the Bahamas in a Performance 42 with three Yamaha F225s (4 strokes) for 13 years before I blew one engine and sold the "boat" for $60,000. Thirteen year old Yamahas (3) all leaked a little oil as well. A new Performance with three F300 go for $350,000 to $500,000 today.
That's Jimmy T with his 80# YFT on the Performance 42. I gaffed the fish.
I still own a slip (and house) in Gated Sandyport Bahamas for anyone in Florida with a $400,000 fast fishing boat that needs a slip for a weekend (to take us fishing or diving).
[email protected]
Tom
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anniesball72
Member
Same with me.
