TC vs ToyTec rear arms
- Thread starter Bijan
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Konkordmusk
New member
A quick phone call to either of those companies should be able to answer your question.
JayRolla
New member
If you read the description it states there is a bushing that can be greased.
"LCAs are built from 1.5" x ¼" wall DOM tubing. With a fixed greaseable poly bushing in one end and a fully adjustable PTFE lined, 28,090 radial load heat treated rod end on the other.
These new links are as tough as you can get with the ability to adjust your pinion angle on your lifted Runner"
MStudt
official vendor
The new Toytec arms do NOT have bushings on one end. They're using Johnny Joints on both ends of the new arms. It also seems like they're only offering adjustable arms which are worthless unless you plan on adjusting your axle position/pinion. Some of Toytec's suppliers still have the old style with the bushing on one end. I'm pretty sure TC only offers their's as a complete kit.
If you're looking for something else you can contact me. I can get you fixed or adjustable arms with poly bushings on one end, and a Summit Flex Joint on the other. You'll save some money, and still get a good product.
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Bijan
New member
I was under the impression the "1st gen" ToyTec arms had the johnny joints. I saw an ad on CL of a guy selling them. I called and asked why he was selling - and his main reason was there wasn't a bushing on one end - thus making it rougher than he wanted.
A flex joint is the same as the bottom end of your sway bar end links yes?
Have you made a set before? I am very interested - yet don't want to be the guinea pig.
Lastly - if adjustable arms are for only if you will be adjusting axle/pinion angle...why are panhard bars adjustable?
snivilous
Senior Member
I doubt having a bushing on one end makes a considerable ride difference versus a more "solid" joint, but I have nothing to back that up. [MENTION=98153]MStudt[/MENTION] stuff is very high quality, you can look at the links he's made and sold here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/176121-rear-control-arm-build-5.html#post1799490
And crawl under the back of your truck and look at how the axle is located and held in place. There are four links going forward/back which control where the axle sits relative to the front/rear direction AND controls the angle of the pinion (think about a chair with four legs, adjust the length of two adjacent legs and the chair gets angled). The panhard controls the position of the axle left/right. So all five links together angle the axle and hold it in place, and then the springs of course hold the body up.
Bijan
New member
Thanks!
MStudt
official vendor
All their new arms have Johnny Joints on both ends. One end is fixed, and the other is adjustable.
The Flex Joint is similar to a Johnny Joint, but not the same as what I use on my sway bar links. I can make them anyway you want them. I haven't made a set using heim joints yet simply due to the cost. With having to purchase the heim joint, bung, and make spacers to fit a 3rd Gen. It's the same price as using a good joint on that end.
The reason for an adjustable pan hard is for side to side movement. When you lifted your 4runner the rear axle was pulled to the passenger by maybe a 1/2". Having an adjustable pan hard will allow you to position it back in it's intended place. Same concept as the drop bracket, but looks cleaner.
AZBub
New member
All their new arms have Johnny Joints on both ends. One end is fixed, and the other is adjustable.
The Flex Joint is similar to a Johnny Joint, but not the same as what I use on my sway bar links. I can make them anyway you want them. I haven't made a set using heim joints yet simply due to the cost. With having to purchase the heim joint, bung, and make spacers to fit a 3rd Gen. It's the same price as using a good joint on that end.
The reason for an adjustable pan hard is for side to side movement. When you lifted your 4runner the rear axle was pulled to the passenger by maybe a 1/2". Having an adjustable pan hard will allow you to position it back in it's intended place. Same concept as the drop bracket, but looks cleaner.
You make enough stuff, have an online store yet? I really like those lower arms.
That was probably me. Just sold those to HammerHead about 1 week ago.
Let me back up and explain (Ill probably over-explain) but want to share what I know and why I went the route that I did.
21 year old daughter has a '99 4runner. Before she left for college she wanted to do a lift kit, larger tires, etc so she could go offroading and 4 wheeling. She had already learned to ride dirt bikes as a teen and seemed to get into it (and still does that when she has time). 4 wheeling was just an extension of her desire to do lots of outdoor and wilderness exploring, hiking etc. She and I researched a bit and decided she wanted the Toytec 3" ultimate lift (funny at the time I thought that these kits were hugely expensive...little did I know). I had never installed anything like that but am a pretty good shadetree mechanic and have rebuilt several old musclecars. She and I worked together to install it in the driveway. Took about 15 hours as we moved slowly. Hardest damn thing was removing the top bolt on rear shocks and then getting new ones tightened properly.
Since that time she has done more offroading and wheeling and one of the things that I kept noticing every so often is that when we went over speedbumps or backed out of the driveway that you could feel what felt like a side to side looseness or body roll. Several times I had found that the rear trackbar nut had loosened just slightly and it was enough to give this side to side body movement when going down curbs or over bumps. Over 12-18 months it seemed to get worse and I finally decided that the original rubber bushings on the track bar were wearing out and deteriorating , and the bolt holding the rear track bar was wearing (and was hoping the hole was not getting wallowed out due to movement (it wasn't). So I decided to replace the OEM rear track bar with Toytec adjustable:
Adjustable DOM Panhard Bar
Installed that and found that OEM bolts had some wear and the OEM rubber bushings were OK but not great. Once installed, this greatly improved the body rocking we would experience...but eventually this rocking came back. Thought about replacing the OEM upper and lower control arms with replacement OEM. Found the best OEM price was nearly identical to buying upgraded adjustable rear upper and lower control arms. Ordered the ToyTec rear UCAs and LCAs. Here are the uppers:
*NEW* Fully Adjustable Rear DOM UCA
At the time, Toytec advertised/sold a rear lower control arm with Johnny Joint on one end and poly or rubber bushing on the other end. Price was about $300 for the set. Right after I ordered them, ToyTec called me and said they are moving away from the Johnny Joint/Bushing style to one made by Rokmen (who has a great rep in the Jeeper world) that has adjustable Johnny Joints on both ends and no rubber or poly bushings at all. They said it was stouter and a bit more expensive but would sell at same price as the ones I originally ordered and they had discontinued (e.g. $300 rather than $380). That is what they currently sell, as shown here:
HD Long Travel Steel Lower Control Arms for 96-02 4Runner
So once I received, Inow had upper control arms, rear trackbar, and lower control arms, all with solid joints on every end. There is no 'give' with solid connections everywhere from rear diff to the frame at 5 different locations (of course there is give with the rear springs and shocks) . Many folks run rubber bushed upper rear control arms and the solid johnny joint rear lower control arms (both ends). Not sure that many run solid connections at all points unless they do lots of offroading/crawling. My original plan was to have solid upper with rubber bushed lower control arms (at least on one end....but Toytec changed out their offering in the middle of all this).
The result was no strange body rolling, and a VERY solid connection....but a bit too solid. Some bumps felt very jolting. Received several calls from my daughter when she was out wheeling about metallic clanking and maybe the control arms were loose, etc. This happened several times. Every time I checked, everything still solid and not loose, no unusual movement, but I would see that the rear control arms would twist (as designed) when the rear axle moved and the rear edge of the Johnny Joint, would ever so slightly kiss the edge of the steel mount on the rear differential and then she would hear the clanking and think something is coming apart. One solution to this issue would have been to grind a little bit of clearance near the rear differential mounting point and carefully chamfer it so as the lower rear control arm twists/rotates so that the 'square' edge of the Johnny Joint does not graze against the diff mounting gusset (I think that might be what it is called). The other solution is to use a rear lower control arm that has the Johnny Joint on one end that allows movement in several directions, but then a rubber or polyurethane mount on the other end (I consider this square mount since it cannot rotate and is held in place by the bolt through the frame) which was my original plan when I ordered the now discontinued ToyTec rear LCA's.
So, while the Rokmen built ToyTec rear lower control arms are really incredibly stout units and can twist and turn as needed (you will note these are built for long travel and can be used for 3 " lifts but probably for up to 6" lifts), if I knew I was getting those originally, I would have probably opted for poly or rubber bushed rear UCAs and maybe the same for the rear trackbar.
So, I punted and went the route of Sonoran Steel rear lower control arms that are about as stout as the Rokmen built arms but use the Toyota OEM rubber bushings in each end. See here:
4Runner/FJ Crusier Extreme Duty DOM Lower Links - $310.00 : Sonoran Steel, Sonoran Steel Custom Metal Fabrication L.L.C. Custom Toyota Truck Parts
No strange rocking as we go over crubs or speedbumps, very solid LCAs that can take some abuse but have some 'give' to them.
I had put the barely used Rokmen's up for sale on CL locally for $250 when I think you called and inquired about them. I ended up selling them to HammerHead for $200 plus shipping (only about $25 for FedEx ground from CO to IL). Hopefully they will work well for him. I know he was surprised how heavy duty and stout they are.
Sorry for the long explanation, but wanted to provide what experienced to you and anyone else considering these Toytec rear LCA's
MStudt
official vendor
Not yet. If a couple more things come through I'll most likely get one. The arms are cheaper than Toytec's, and everybody else.
MStudt
official vendor
No. You'll just have to contact me about what you need. Right now for 3rd Gen's I'm making cb antenna mounts, LCA's, UCA's, and pan hards.
I'm working on a front bumper, and at some point a roof rack.
