Temp Gauge, Sag/Lift, Clutch Cyl, Slightly-rough Cold Start Questions

[JaredB3000]

Greetings yall,

New member to this forum, just posted a couple of pics to the photo gallery (http://www.toyota-4runner.org/class...a-4runner-picture-gallery-50.html#post1008308). Decided to throw these questions out to the T4R world after searching around this forum quite a bit (finding enough difference of opinion that I've decided to ask...) After the sag, I'm gonna pick up a tan soft top for the summer time. Gonna keep this one stock, then find one for trails. Then maybe a 3rd for a trip to South America. 80s vanwagon with 4wd? Then an FJ45... Anyhow, here be the questions:

1) Finickey temp gauge reading (exactly 50% or nothing, totally arbitrary between the 2)- definitely a wiring issue, though I've come across some folks swearing by taking apart the gauge cluster and cleaning connections, others insisting that its the connection at the send unit. Wiring seems OK at the send... Before I go taking apart the console, I wanted to ask- do I need to fully disconnect the cluster to access the cleaning points (which sounds like a bit of a pain in the ass), or can I get away with dropping the finish panel?

2) I've read a bunch of rear-end sag threads, and it seems like the best bet for returning to stock height is to replace leaf springs with a new pair. Any brands to stay away from? I'm liking the sounds of the 120$pair as opposed to the 500$OME set. This rig won't be used for trails, but when I have 5 people in it, would like to see her sit straight.
Any add-a-leaf/jeep spring horror stories? The rear leaf pack as it is, is still pretty damn decent. Cheaper the better, but would like to get it right the first time. Any before and after pics of stock restoration projects appreciated.

3) Changing the oil the other day, I noticed this vacuum line (?) disconnected from the clutch master cylinder:

Here's where I'll make a quick admission- everything I know about cars is from s*** breaking, and then figuring out how to fix it. Don't know much about clutches/clutch systems, never had to mess with one on my previous 80s pickups or any other car.

I suspect this is an outlet for air in the clutch system, but I have no idea. Does this need to be reconnected with a hose clamp? It doesnt seem to want to fit particularly snug as is... Do I need to reconnect and then bleed the clutch? Clutch is working like a champ, no probs whatsoever...

4) Curious about the cranking at cold start- my 2 previous 22res when living in Montana never seemed to need to crank as long as this one does in the morning at 30-40 degree temps. Its negligible, like 4 or 5 cranks and then good, and after operating temp it starts immediately. If its warm in the morning, it starts immediately. Any input much appreciated if it might help keep the starter alive for as long as possible.

5) Used enough oil on the long drive to raise a brow (1 qt/500miles), no smoke, full power, drives as good or better than my previous rigs with the same wheel base/motor/drive-train. I'm gonna do a compression check in the next week, and most of what I've come up with is that it would be the piston rings. Gasket/chain/top end work has been done recently by a Yota master tech. My question regarding this scenario, to preempt any motor work but not make something small something big- once I identify the culprit (valve guides, piston rings, something else) do any or all of these probs need to be addressed immediately, or is it more of a keep oil levels proper and drive another xx thousand miles until its time for a rebuild? I've only done a front end rebuild on a Subaru, so my motor trouble-shooting knowledge is limited (as per the 22re, my knowledge is change the oil and watch the levels and they will outlive most other motors...).

Thanks for any and all input! I dig this forum and all the 1st gen fanatics.

JB

 

[Bad_Vision]

1 TEMP GAUGE
a. test the sending unit itself
b. taking the dash apart is NOTHING a screw driver and a 10mm socket YOU WILL ONLY NEED A SCREWDRIVER to get at your gauge cluster two screws in the top on the inside by the window of the cluster and 2 screws on the underside of the facing piece that holds the cluster. you may have to take the six screws out that hold in your steering wheel cover no biggy its 2 peice. once that is off youll have to take 4 screws off of the cluster itself, they are the ones that hold it in place. once those are out you will have to have a slim hand and reach behind the cluster to the speedo cable, it is held on the cluster by a clip you simply pinch the clip in and pull, the cluster will be free to take out after you disconnect the wiring harness's, there are 3 that connect to the cluster.

this was done in 15 minutes. and another 20 min to do this

c. Dont be afraid to take things apart on a toyota its not a jack in the box its simple just look for the screws and pull them out then put them back


2. REAR SAG
a. summit sells 0inch lift springs for 350 for the pair.
b. If you want cheap and works, just do the ADD a leaf if you have no cracked leafs.

3. RANDOM HOSE
a. remeber you have a mechanical clutch it doesn't use any air. its hard to tell were that line is but i think that's a water drain tube, if a hose that big was leaking vacuum your truck wouldn't run right. if it goes into the body then its a water drain.


4. COLD START
a. the first gen only sends fuel to the rail when your starter fires now in cold weather fuel is denser and travels slower like milliseconds but still. when things are cold they are hard to start, LIVE WITH IT. if you cant then get a block heater and plug it in every night to a extension cord.

5. OIL BURNING
a. you have options
1. buy a used 22re and drive your truck while trowing oil in it until you rebuild the spare engine you bought. kits for rebuilds are only $288.00 with HD timing rails, here is the link to the rebuild kits 22R, 22RE, 22REC
.2 Rebuild the one you have in the truck now and do it all at once! never do one at a time youll end up spending more in the long run that way. if you rebuild you will have it out and then you only take the engine out once!

any question im always available to help several members here from other states have my cell number

 

[JaredB3000]

Thanks much Bad Vision!

I wasn't much of a mechanic when I had my other Yotas, I appreciate your input on all these issues. Good to know the cold start is nothing to worry about, and the cluster is easy to get at. And yeah, that hose is totally drainage now that I looked at it. Seemed a little suspicious, being right next to that nipple on the clutch cylinder (bleeder valve?)...

I've been leaning towards the used rebuild for sure, that way if and when its time for a swap I could keep the original motor and rebuild it as well. My general plans for global domination is to have a fleet of old Toyotas and get to know all the ins and outs. Rebuilding a motor will push my knowledge thus far, but I'm looking forward to it.

One more question I forgot add to the above- does anyone know of a company that will do an Agreed Value policy on a classic daily driver? The ACV value is shyte on this vehicle, and I'd definitely be out a few grand if some nitwit on a cell phone hits me... As this is my only vehicle, Haggerty wont insure me...

 

[BucknutBob]

The nipple on the clutch cylinder IS your bleeder valve, just like on brakes.

 

[4runnertank]

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa403/Bad_vision/dash1-1.jpg[/ [/QUOTE]

How did you get that dash off???

 

[Bad_Vision]

i used the factory service manual!
its really simple when you know were all the screws and nuts are.
you have to take out a vent to get one nut but other then that the hole thing is stupidly simple

 

[JaredB3000]

Instead of starting up a new thread, figured I'd revisit this one regarding the temp gauge issue...

Having mulled over this forum and yotatech trying to figure out the cause of an erratic temp gauge -usually the needle is sitting at 50% (even when cold) with an occasional flutter to 0%, and even more rare visit to 35-40% which I suspect is an actual reading- I've tried a couple thangs.

Based on what I've found mostly at yotatech, I've since pulled out the gauge cluster and cleaned up (lightly with an eraser) the brass rings at the terminals on the back of the gauge (fastened with brass screws that contact the circuits) and gently cleaned up the wiring harness contacts- same deal with the 50% with key at ACC.

With a multimeter at the Ohm 200 setting, I tested the 3 terminals with the key at ACC position and received the following reading:

IG-TU: reading of 70.5 - should be 135 (per the service manual)
TU-E: reading of 74.3 - should be 138 (per the service manual)
IG-E: reading of 5.4 - should be 273 (per the service manual)

These readings were with the meter touching the screws themselves, if I touch the brass contact ring the number would jump around, usually to a much higher number.

I was a little unclear how to get a proper reading from the temp sender (at the thermostat housing), and then noticed that the gauge remains at 50% with or without the the connector fastened to the sender, so I've ruled that out for the moment.

Having looked at numerous threads (where opinions vary drastically) the 85 22re sending unit is a one prong unit, of which there is only one sender and not 2 like on later 22re models (so says the service manual and a few folks' threads...)

If anyone can help narrow it down based on my ramble, and/or walk me through how to test for which wire has issues if I've exhausted the likely culprits (again- I'm a novice with electrical but its starting to make sense) I would really appreciate it.

As there is no such thing as dumb question - for resistance testing does it matter whether the key is in ACC, ON, or actually fired up to affect the reading?

Lastly- in disconnecting the negative battery terminal to install a stereo and then work on the temp gauge, I've come to find that the bolt holding the contact to the terminal is movable, and as such, although snug, the connection is by no means tight (its only held on by tension). The current connector that needs replaced is stout, and soft making me think its lead- the replacement connector I've yet to replace is "lead free" (recommended by an autozone employee...), and much skinnier (stainless probably, its not in front of me at the moment); question 1: although there is no other electrical issues, could this alone be the culprit? 2: is it OK to replace the current lead connector with a non-lead one?

Thanks much-

JB

 

[Bad_Vision]

just a kick, see how much resistance the wire itself has from the sensor to the gauge strip.
i have a feeling you have a corroded wire which is causing the issue.
you may have to rewire from the harness point.

if your coolant wire is getting resistance with the sensor unplugged then you have corrosion

 

[JaredB3000]

Thanks BV-

I'm gonna try this tomorrow. Having reassembled (had to go to work the next morning) before I saw this post, I wanted to double check on getting a resistance reading from the wire per your suggestion-

With battery on, I'll want to disconnect the wire from the sensor, contact the multimeter's + prong with the wire, and the - prong to grounded metal, right? If there's resistance at this point due to corrosion, would I need to replace the wire all the way from its connection at the sensor into the main wire assembly, and then splice the new wire into the gauge cluster harness? Or, would I want to redo all the wires coming off of the gauge harness that has the temp signal- if its corroded, would that mean its picking up a signal from another wire thats also corroded? I'm gunna study the wiring diagram in the manual when I get home from work- still asking alot of Qs so I don't F*** anything up...

Not sure if this confuses the matter at all, but as an FYI- since I've cleaned the gauge cluster, I noticed this week that although the needle will still go 50% and 0 arbitrarily, its seems to actually work for a couple minutes at a time, slowly but steadily rising (prior to disconnecting, it never stayed in one position long enough to see slow and steady movement). In one of these instances, I parked and disconnected the wire from the sender, and the needle did not move or go down to 0 as I figured it might when working properly... Could this suggest the truck might actually have 2 components to the sending unit and the one in the thermostat housing is not the main unit? Or- could it still be corrosion even if its disconnected when its appearing to work like its supposed to?

Any input much appreciated- wanting to sort this out before a trip into the mountains in a couple weeks, to break in the soft top that showed up last night...

 

[Bad_Vision]

you have to think about it a little your engine is vibrating the wire is too and copper corrosion will conduct even in dust form but as it vibrates the density can change this may be causing your issue.
it may be worth checking the gauge cluster itself. could be the circuit strip is having issues.

 

[JaredB3000]

Greetings all,

I could sure use some aftermarket gauge advice (temporary solution) on the matter. I had to take a breather on my truck until yesterday because of school/work. Had I fixed this yesterday or today, I would have been on my way out of town, and I cant justify taking such a well taken care of ride for a 2000 trip without knowing whats going on heat-wise...

So, per the suggestions from other folks here and over at Yotatech, followed by using some deduction, all with no luck- I've most recently cleaned/checked the ground under the kick-plate, put in a new sender after cleaning everything well (the old one was looking a bit funky), ran a new wire to the gauge cluster- this was the most promising at first, as the gauge worked as it should for the first time from cold to operating temp before I reassembled the console, the unclipping/reclipping/movement however resulted in a return to erratic gauge behavior. As the problem is now narrowed down to the gauge, and not feeling comfortable soldering anything on the cluster, after maaaany hours cleaning screws, inspecting connections etc, I decided to put in an aftermarket gauge for the time being.

After expressing my concern with the length of the "universal" sending unit possibly not contacting coolant as it is much longer, **** pipe at the O'reillys assured me that the 16 1.5 adapter would work. It threads in properly, but the underside of the 16mm adapter head does not mate with the housing on the motor...

So, my questions:

1) Would teflon tape create a sufficient plugging of the fluid for a few months, or should I bag this adapter all together? I ran to op-temp w/out tape and it leaked a bit.

2) Does anyone know a part # and/or chain auto part store that might have a proper adapter for the universal aftermarket temp gauges?

3) Any input on using the aftermarket sending unit length? It seems to me it could possibly not be touching coolant-how important is this to identifying the critical moment when overheating is about to unfold?

4) Any insight as to a go-to product readily available in a chain part store much appreciated!

JB