The Effects of Pot

[Thai]

I have to ask, how many people do you treat in an average month for complications related directly to marijuana use? You know where I'm going with this, so let me hear everything you have to say about it.

I don't know. Why? More often than not, my patients (hospitalized) are tested positive for at least THC (via urine drug screen). Sure, most of them are there for other reasons than directly due to THC...but it is hard to separate out what is due to what. I have actually gotten used to it.

Thai, surely you must realize that people have been consuming marijuana a lot longer than tylenol. It seemed a lot of you argument was based on a 'only time will tell' argument. Smoking weed is certainly nothing new.

You're right JD. Medical data on long-term use of THC is not all that clear. There is some data (as noted above) that long-term use of THC at young age can impair IQ down the road.

I brought up Tylenol because just 3 years ago, many medical professionals tell people to use Tylenol at recommended doses instead of NSAIDs (Motrin, Aleve, BC Powder, etc.) on an empty stomach or as a general pain killer or a fever reducer. This was especially prevalent when NSAIDs (except Aleve) was found to be bad for the heart over the long haul (yet another point to digest!). Take it recommended doses and you will be OK! As long as your liver is not royally screwed up, Tylenol is perfectly safe. 3 years ago. How many Pediatricians (baby docs) tell mothers to use Tylenol as 1st line for fever or any aches and pain? Works well...and no immediate side effects...so, what is not to love about it, right?! What have we learned? Tylenol builds up in your body over time starting from infancy and can kill kidneys permanently. Tylenol used for vaccine-induced fever can lead to decrease effectiveness. Tylenol threshold for overdose is now 3 grams instead of 4. All of these "tidbits" were found within the past 3 or so years. Why now? Many life cycles have come and go since Tylenol was introduced to market, right? Why did we find about Tylenol cumulative effect in 2012? Were we looking in the right place? Did we know what we were looking for? Did we care even since Tylenol has shown no acute kidney disease in the short term?

Did we even expect Tylenol to affect the kidneys in the first place??!!! No. You can ask any kidney specialist 2 years ago if they thought that Tylenol can kill kidneys. NONE will believe it 2 years ago! Tylenol overdose causes liver damage, not kidney! No one in their right mind could even link Tylenol to PERMANENT kidney damage 2 years ago. Until we looked for it. Until we did a long term study LOOKING FOR IT.

Our mind is poorly understood. I can tell you. I take care of stroke patients all the time. Nothing is standard in terms of stroke presentations. Everyone is different even if the stroke is in the same place. If our mind is poorly understood, how can anyone say that THC is harmless to our mind in the long run? If you don't understand part A, then how can you even fully access the effects of part B on part A?? This is why almost all medical studies on THC has a disclaimer behind it. We just don't know enough yet.

You guys may be right...THC may be perfectly harmless (despite medical long term studies trending it the other way). Why do you want to take a risk that can affect your livelihood down the road.........just so that you can enjoy rolling mountains even more? WTF do you need it in the first place to enjoy a relaxing time? Think about it. I am not here to criticize anyone.

(And no, I do not NEED to drink at football games to enjoy it! I love the game too much to dilute my excitement and analyzing of player's performance! I don't just watch the game...I watch the each player that I am interested in!)

 

[Thai]

as someone who has never used it you can't purport to be the final word on the subject.

I am NOT an expert...never claim to be. I am NOT the final word. I don't think anyone is the final word because no one knows for sure on THC long-term effects. Because of such, I can only give you examples of something that we misunderstood for a long time until recently.

Do I need to use cocaine to know that it is bad for me? Do I need to pull water instead of oil into my engine to know that it is bad? Do I need to go up Black Bear Pass to know that it is dangerous?

As I told you above, I don't give a rats ass what you guys do. But, please understand that no one has the final word on THC...and there are plenty of examples of "safe bets" that are simply not so. Like I wrote above, the more people gets f*cked up from anything, the more I get pay.

Want another? Prilosec OTC. Prevacid OTC. Who here takes either of these? Ask your parents. I was against prescribing this unless absolutely indicated. Many of my colleagues disagreed since these drugs are very "safe" seemingly. FDA said so! And these drugs work wonderfully! They cure heartburn better than Jesus! Miracle drugs! But what has very recent studies and my personal experience found so far? Horrible infectious diarrhea. Bone fractures. Abdominal internal infections. Pneumonia. Malnutrition. All can cause death, especially the diarrhea one...very nasty! And you know what? I get lots of income from these complications!! As I had predicted and now studies confirmed...God gave us stomach acid for a reason. When you screw around with it, then long term effects will get you! Short term? Perfectly safe.

YMMV.

 

[Surge97]

Just for once it would be nice to have some sort of sanctuary from this topic. Apparently a 4runner enthusiast forum is not one of them.

 

[1engineer]

Just for once it would be nice to have some sort of sanctuary from this topic. Apparently a 4runner enthusiast forum is not one of them.

Don't come to the off topic section then. Stay on the 4Runner side and you will be fine.

 

[Thai]

Don't come to the off topic section then. Stay on the 4Runner side and you will be fine.

I never understood people who come into a topic to complain why they have to read or get involved in it. No one is forcing you to click on a topic...no one is holding a gun to your head. And if someone did, then just duck! Weird folks i tell you!

 

[IanB]

I don't know. Why? More often than not, my patients (hospitalized) are tested positive for at least THC (via urine drug screen). Sure, most of them are there for other reasons than directly due to THC...but it is hard to separate out what is due to what. I have actually gotten used to it.

I don't think you can draw anything resembling a correlation from that. Lots of people use THC, some regularly, some sporadically, they all show up on the drug test the same. Unless they are in for respiratory related issues and were never a tobacco user, just MJ, then I don't think you can blame MJ for any health woes, wether the patient is a user or not.

I bet even more of your patients drink coffee on a regular basis, would you blame all of their woes on caffine?

 

[Thai]

I don't think you can draw anything resembling a correlation from that. Lots of people use THC, some regularly, some sporadically, they all show up on the drug test the same. Unless they are in for respiratory related issues and were never a tobacco user, just MJ, then I don't think you can blame MJ for any health woes, wether the patient is a user or not.

Exactly...i can't say that THC causes what they have. I think that you mis-read my post. Do i deal with folks who are THC users on a daily basis as my patients? Yes.

 

[IanB]

Exactly...i can't say that THC causes what they have. I think that you mis-read my post. Do i deal with folks who are THC users on a daily basis as my patients? Yes.

Is there a conclusion you're drawing based on the fact that you deal with THC users on a daily basis? If not, then why mention it at all. That's what I'm saying.:dizzy:

 

[Thai]

Is there a conclusion you're drawing based on the fact that you deal with THC users on a daily basis? If not, then why mention it at all. That's what I'm saying.:dizzy:

You or someone asked if i see THC users in my practice...and i do. Have i dealt with complications of it? I can't tell you since we don't have a specific test to confirm it. Do i see pneumonia folks with THC? Yeah, can i say that it is from that? I don't know. Do i see folks with "altered mental status" with positive THC? Yes. Can i say positively that THC was not a contributing factor? No...nor can i say that it was since, again, we have no confirmatory test to say either side. I do advised these patients to stay away from THC...just in case.

BTW, if you're dizzy (as your emoticon implied), then you need to see a doctor...and drop the weed!

 

[IanB]

You or someone asked if i see THC users in my practice...and i do. Have i dealt with complications of it? I can't tell you since we don't have a specific test to confirm it. Do i see pneumonia folks with THC? Yeah, can i say that it is from that? I don't know. Do i see folks with "altered mental status" with positive THC? Yes. Can i say positively that THC was not a contributing factor? No...nor can i say that it was since, again, we have no confirmatory test to say either side. I do advised these patients to stay away from THC...just in case.

It was me that brought it up, and what I asked was:

"I have to ask, how many people do you treat in an average month for complications related directly to marijuana use? You know where I'm going with this, so let me hear everything you have to say about it. "

If there was evidence to support MJ being at fault, I have a feeling you would have brought it up. I'm not saying it's GOOD for you, but I am saying you can't state as fact that it's BAD for you. Aside from taking smoke into your lungs (and there are other ways to ingest THC), it's unproven to have negative physical effects.

BTW, if you're dizzy (as your emoticon implied), then you need to see a doctor...and drop the weed!

LOL!

 

[RunninInGA]

Just for once it would be nice to have some sort of sanctuary from this topic. Apparently a 4runner enthusiast forum is not one of them.

:sadwave:

Your sanctuary is simply to not to enter these types of threads if you'd rather not participate.

Instead, you chose to post in the thread, further reinforcing the fact that some people find it worthy of discussion......your post brought the thread right back up to the top of the page. (Kinda defeats the purpose of posting your passive displeasure of those who are engaged in the conversation, don'tcha think?)

 

[Thai]

I NEVER said that there was evidence of short-term effects of MJ. I never said that i see 100% undeniable direct MJ effects in my practice...that i know of.

I am talking more about the long-terms effects of MJ. No one really knows. Medical studies thus far show a negative trend. You all are saying how wonderfully safe it is...and i just caution you guys on that. I have given examples of stuff that we all thought was perfectly safe...and later turns out being quite toxic on a cumulative basis.

Summary: brain has a lot of unknowns...MJ is unknown long-term...i would caution jumping to conclusion that MJ is safe on the brain over the long haul, especially when we don't even understand the brain process completely.

Last post folks...feel free to continue bashing me if needed...like i said above, i am not here to change anyone's lifestyle...just be smart about it. My business thrives on indiscretions.

 

[Dusty Driftwood]

[MENTION=2]Thai[/MENTION] I'd like to ask you to drop out of this conversation. As mentioned a page or two ago, this discussion has pretty much run its course and we've already determined what (basically) everyone already knew; THC impairs your reaction time, etc. However, you continue to debate information that is non-essential to this topic.
Though others have engaged you, I ask that you remove yourself from the conversation because (as you've stated) you have no first hand experience with the drug at all. So, you're drawing all your conclusions from assumptions and questionable logic. And, in my opinion, you are just here to argue, not contribute anything useful to the conversation.
You may feel some of the less articulate, or maybe less patient, posters in this thread who advocate it's use "prove your point" - whatever that is. To which, I would say every group has their bad apples. You said that ignorant people use THC, but I kind of think you forgot to realize that not all THC users are ignorant.
I've worked in the medical industry for a number of years and met physicians that are arrogant, close minded, conceited, condescending know-it-alls. But, it would be short sighted of me to lump all of you in the same boat or assume that you all have the same god complex and personality deficiency regardless of how many of you have proved that point over and over again. I guess the point is not to judge a whole group of people based off your experience with such a small cross section of users. Fact is, there are more people out there like cacoghill that used the substance without issue and still went on to be upstanding, successful members of society. You just never hear about those people because those people typically prefer to fly under the radar and stay out of trouble. So, please, stop assuming you know soooooo much about something you clearly know almost nothing about.

 

[Thai]

[MENTION=73750]Dusty Driftwood[/MENTION]. Dusty, you just had to pull me back in! What is YOUR assumption...what is YOUR proof that THC is safe over the long haul? From the look of things, i have based my assumptions more on medical findings and common sense. From my viewpoint, no one knows definite long term effects of THC. But that does NOT mean that there isn't. Seriously, you're a smart person...why do you keep on missing my point(s). Weed in the brain?

When did i say that THC users are ignorant? No, i just question why they even need THC to enjoy a great moment in the first place. Whether that twists your panties or not, i don't care...grow thicker skin!

What did you do in your medical industry? Drug rep? Of course, like i said earlier, there are bad apples everywhere...WHERE did i say that doctors are so much better?? Are you putting words in my mouth there, dusty?? There are hypocrites everywhere...you won't find it with me though.

There are more George Burns too and alcoholics who live a great long life. Stop putting words in my mouth that somehow through magic that i am trying to change your life. I am not. Screw it up if you want to. This is a discussion board/forum. Thus, i express my views. Stop whinning. Move on.

Lastly, see my previous post. Thanks.

 

[Thai]

I can't link from my medical account (Uptodate.com), but here is a fairly decent article on THC: An Evidence Based Review of Acute and Long-Term Effects of Cannabis Use on Executive Cognitive Functions

Is it as bad as cocaine? No. Is it as bad as alcohol? No. Is it as bad as tobacco? No. Is it as good as water? No. Does it affect you over the long haul especially if you started early in life for heavy users? Conflicting evidence; no clear cut answer...but it does seem like it is leaning toward the negative side.

 

[-JD-]

Thai, my point about weed being around longer than Tylenol was that there are PLENTY of long term users around. I know many personally. While that's not a scientific study my own common sense and first hand experience leads me to believe the long term effects are negligible.
Given the fact that IMO certain people have been looking for a reason to demonize weed, combined with generations of long term users and weed being one of the most studied substances in existence I would think we would have seen any serious long term issues before now.

As far as unknown long term effects I am much more concerned about some of the substances in modern processed food than I am weed.

 

[IanB]

GMO foods are likely a much bigger risk to your health for people in this day and age than MJ.

 

[ddnww]

too much discussin, not enough puffin. :eyebrows:

 

[absolute yota]

I just read this thread and it killed my high. But I don't mind trying again! Thanks a lot guys lol

 

[mijbr90190]

Well thai, regardless of your professional opinion, im going to enjoy this bowl.