The Effects of Pot

[-JD-]

Colorado definitely jumped in a bit too prematurely IMO. But the issues they encountered can be taken as lessons for everyone else.

One of the more disturbing issues I read about was the widespread use a fungicide called Eagle 20. Its been used on flowering plants successfully for a long time, and was used on the legally grown weed being sold in Colorado for quite awhile before someone discovered it contained myclobutanil. What no one realized was that, unlike normal flowering plants, its use on cannabis exposed the fungicide to high temperatures due to smoking. When heated myclobutanil converts into hydrogen cyanide. Hydrogen cyanide is highly toxic.

Weed was legally grown and sold in Colorado for a significant amount of time containing the fungicide. This among other potential hazards posed by pesticides and moulds are things that should have been more thoroughly researched, controlled and tested for prior to the legal sale of the drug to the public.

 

[CXS]

For pain management you want something high in CBD (Pure Indica's) like white Rhino or Aurora, or you can get milder Indica dominant strains like any of the Kush varieties, or you can go straight CBD concentrates with smaller amounts of THC

One big negative is the lack of consistency of strains from one place to another. A named strain in one place isn't necessarily the same elsewhere but I'll see if White Rhino or Aurora are around me. Straight CBD hasn't helped me but a guy I know with Parkinsons is very happy with it.

A side story: A guy I know, with the help of his father, has eliminated 7 of 8 meds his grandmother takes by substituting pot. She commented that her medicine is working because she feels so much better. Grandmother doesn't know anything about the change. He's looking forward to going with her to her doc to see what he has to say after they bet rid of med #8.

 

[CXS]

Colorado definitely jumped in a bit too prematurely IMO. But the issues they encountered can be taken as lessons for everyone else.

One of the more disturbing issues I read about was the widespread use a fungicide called Eagle 20. Its been used on flowering plants successfully for a long time, and was used on the legally grown weed being sold in Colorado for quite awhile before someone discovered it contained myclobutanil. What no one realized was that, unlike normal flowering plants, its use on cannabis exposed the fungicide to high temperatures due to smoking. When heated myclobutanil converts into hydrogen cyanide. Hydrogen cyanide is highly toxic.

Weed was legally grown and sold in Colorado for a significant amount of time containing the fungicide. This among other potential hazards posed by pesticides and moulds are things that should have been more thoroughly researched, controlled and tested for prior to the legal sale of the drug to the public.

Yep, it was quite a revelation to many people and exactly why research is important. There's a huge market surrounding the legal market such as growing supplies which, unlike dispensaries, is unregulated. Since anyone over 21 can grow for their own use they can be using products like Eagle 20 withput knowing it. Just another reason to legalization across the country needs to happen along with the research that would follow.

 

[Dusty Driftwood]

...it does not take money to survive. I have family who can attest to such. They obviously live outside of the US, but they work on their land to self-sustain (own a very, very rural orchard in Canada that they bartered for 1o acres of land.... no joke), and what they cannot provide for self on their own land, they use their produce and skills to work out barter for other services.

NEVER have they ever taken a dollar from the Canadian government, nor have they received charity from anyone in the community. Their energy is produced through solar and wind, leaving them entirely off the grid for their electricity needs, they're on wells for water, and they use timber from their own land to heat their home. They sound poor, eh? Not at all. Their home is quite nice, and they own plenty of newer vehicles. Their most recent Subaru (2012 Outback) was traded for engineering services to an expanding Subaru dealership (uncle is a structural engineer, and also has a bachelors in architecture from the University of Tehran).

I'm not doubting the validity of this story, but you have to know that your family members are an anomaly. So few people can/do live like this. It makes the data point mostly irrelevant. If this were an actual case study, this data wouldn't even be considered. That said, I think it is awesome they are self sustaining.

My wife's grandpa (at 92 yo) smokes a joint a day due to chronic pain from multiple hip surgeries... This in turn gives him a better outlook on life and helps his mood, which is very important in an elderly person. They can't lose the 'will to live'.

My experience: a single toke helped my asthma far better than any emergency inhaler I've ever tried.

Both examples are great. But they are clearly the exception, not the rule. I would not assume what is right for one is right for all.

Just things I have seen from my job:

MJ is a VERY complex drug. It has both stimulant and depressant qualities. It also has euphoric and hallucinogenic qualities. It causes long term health issues, especially in younger people.

I have done many cases where people high on MJ committed numerous crimes. One was a DUI case where a young man high on MJ collided with a middle aged dentist with a family, killing the dentist and badly injuring his wife.

Another was a MJ dealer who got in an argument with a customer during a drug deal while UI and attacked him with a razor knife nearly slicing his face off (over 100 staples).

I also did a case with a group of deaf people who were hanging out and smoking pot, got in an argument and the belligerent "leader" of the group shot another guy.

It is a myth that people on pot don't commit violent crimes. It is a myth that pot is harmless. It is also a myth that usage doesn't go up in teenagers when it's legalized. Just look at all the issues CO and WA have had.

Pot today is much more potent than when the baby boomers were kids and it's a drug whose only purpose is to alter one's perceptions. There are medical prescriptions for people that need/want MJ for medical reasons (it's called Marinol).

Just my 2 cents but backed up by my actual life observations and experiences.

Cheers, Steve.

Steve, thanks for your service and perspective. I agree that MJ is a complex drug, especially in today's genetically engineered strands.

I believe the long term negative impact MJ has on young people is a result of altering the brain chemistry before the organ has had a chance to fully mature.

I would only add that criminals commit crimes, violent people resolve issues with violence, belligerent people act hostile and aggressive, sometimes resulting in violence...

The fact that they are on MJ cannot be proven as a root cause or catalyst for these events.
Sober people have committed crimes as well. When they do they blame stress, insomnia, finances, love, etc.
I believe people should stop looking for 'things' to blame and own their actions...

 

[J-Roc]

[MENTION=73750]Dusty Driftwood[/MENTION] Well said Sir...

 

[grave]

Steve, thanks for your service and perspective. I agree that MJ is a complex drug, especially in today's genetically engineered strands.

I believe the long term negative impact MJ has on young people is a result of altering the brain chemistry before the organ has had a chance to fully mature.

I would only add that criminals commit crimes, violent people resolve issues with violence, belligerent people act hostile and aggressive, sometimes resulting in violence...

The fact that they are on MJ cannot be proven as a root cause or catalyst for these events.
Sober people have committed crimes as well. When they do they blame stress, insomnia, finances, love, etc.
I believe people should stop looking for 'things' to blame and own their actions...

Yes. Well said, Dusty. Alcohol "causes long-term health issues, especially in younger people," but it is still legal and regulated. It's one of the reasons 21 is the legal age to drink alcohol, because parts of the brain are not fully developed until that point and alcohol can severely hinder that development, as can marijuana. that doesn't stop teenagers from procuring it from people of age, or their parents' liquor cabinet, though, same as they will get (and have been getting) weed from someone of age.

any argument people give for not legalizing marijuana can be proven to be way worse when alcohol is substituted. alcohol was outlawed at one point and that was repealed. now look where we are. why not do the same with marijuana? hopefully in 80 years we will look back on this time and think this was all so silly and it will be the norm and we will take weekend trips to craft growers and be smoking weed flights paired with the nummiest edibles made of artisanally-grown organic ingredients from the owner's farm. actually i hope it's like that in the next few years, not 80.

 

[bmecler]

For me, the good:

- increased creativity
- increased verbal communication
- removes my brain to mouth filter
- suppresses appetite for up to one hour

The bad:

- feeling burnt out
- feeling lazy
- increased anxiety
- isolation once anxiety kicks in
- being in my head

Personally the negatives outweigh the positives for me. If I could tailor the effects of marijuana to my personal needs, I would indulge on a daily basis.

 

[Thai]

For what its worth:

Marijuana Use Tied to Death from Hypertension, Study Suggests
By Amy Orciari Herman

Edited by Susan Sadoughi, MD

Patients may ask about a widely reported study suggesting that marijuana use is associated with increased risk for death from hypertension. The findings appear in the European Journal of Preventive Cardiology.

Researchers studied 1200 adults who completed the 2005 National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. Over half reported having ever used marijuana.

During follow-up through 2011, the incidence of death from hypertension was 2.6 per 1000 among marijuana users versus 1.4 per 1000 among nonusers. After adjustment for confounders, including prior diagnosis of hypertension, the risk for hypertension mortality was significantly higher with marijuana use (hazard ratio, 3.4). Risks for heart disease and cerebrovascular mortality were not significantly increased in marijuana users.

——————————————————————————————-

Hypertension (elevated blood pressure) + Pot = not good.

 

[mscot]

Researchers studied 1200 adults who completed the 2005 National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. Over half reported having ever used marijuana.

Correlation does not equal causation. And few people believe that studies using self-reported data are even remotely scientifically valid. Compound that with a sample size of 1200 out of 300 million americans (4/10,000%) is a bigger waste of tax money than it is a scientific study.

Also, I wouldn't believe much that comes from a federal program when its a discussion of drugs the federal government currently believe should be illegal.

 

[Thai]

Correlation does not equal causation. And few people believe that studies using self-reported data are even remotely scientifically valid. Compound that with a sample size of 1200 out of 300 million americans (4/10,000%) is a bigger waste of tax money than it is a scientific study.

Also, I wouldn't believe much that comes from a federal program when its a discussion of drugs the federal government currently believe should be illegal.

Here is the original article: SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

FYI.

Yes, getting REAL information from the dealer is much more reliable than these (European?) research hacks!

 

[mscot]

Here is the original article: SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

FYI.

Yes, getting REAL information from the dealer is much more reliable than these (European?) research hacks!

The NHANES is a survey of US citizens done by the federal government.
I'm not picking apart their conclusion so much as their methodology.
1200 is not a sufficient sample size.
Self reporting studies are notoriously unreliable.
Plus, the federal government has an anti non-pharma drug agenda.

And again, correlation does not equal causation.

I'm sure you could look at some self-reported study done somewhere and come to the opposite conclusion.

FWIW, I don't smoke (or eat) mj. But I'm anti-prohibition.

 

[Off-choader]

drugs are bad mkkaay

 

[Thai]

The NHANES is a survey of US citizens done by the federal government.
I'm not picking apart their conclusion so much as their methodology.
1200 is not a sufficient sample size.
Self reporting studies are notoriously unreliable.
Plus, the federal government has an anti non-pharma drug agenda.

And again, correlation does not equal causation.

I'm sure you could look at some self-reported study done somewhere and come to the opposite conclusion.

FWIW, I don't smoke (or eat) mj. But I'm anti-prohibition.

I understand. But the survey done by NHANES probably under-estimates MJ use because most people will lie about their MJ use.

The European researchers then use that data and then follow those 1200 folks who were selected from NHANES survey for years and then see who DIES.

This study was to show if there is an association b/w MJ use and cardiovascular DEATHS. If anything, this study probably UNDER-estimates the MORTALITY risk of MJ and those with hypertension (elevated blood pressure).

 

[mscot]

I understand. But the survey done by NHANES probably under-estimates MJ use because most people will lie about their MJ use.

The European researchers then use that data and then follow those 1200 folks who were selected from NHANES survey for years and then see who DIES.

This study was to show if there is an association b/w MJ use and cardiovascular DEATHS. If anything, this study probably UNDER-estimates the MORTALITY risk of MJ and those with hypertension (elevated blood pressure).

LOL. And you just took an already unreliable study and blew it apart with your supposition. Excellent work.

 

[Thai]

LOL. And you just took an already unreliable study and blew it apart with your supposition. Excellent work.

LOL...ok dude, keep that tin foil cap on your head....

 

[mrblah]

I love weed, and when I had my MJ card, I smoked it every day. It did relieve my foot pain (plantar fasciitis), helped with insomnia, and also helped me with anxiety.

With that said, I can't smoke weed, because as people have mentioned, I become a lazy bum. I just want to chill all day every day on my couch and watch stupid things on youtube. I am absolutely happy doing absolutely nothing when smoking weed, which is probably counterproductive in every aspect of my life. Also, I found out if you smoked or ate way too much, the next day, you feel way out of it, and I was a incoherent mess even though I wasn't technically high anymore.

 

[aa.allen]

I have never smoked pot. In high school and college when people around me were smoking it I was always scared it would turn me in to one of my meth or heroine addicted cousins. In that same time frame there isn't a thing I wouldn't drink.

I have gotten older and I drink 1-2 beers a week. Still haven't smoked weed but I have come around to it has some great uses medically. I am a few days short of 38 and already have bad arthritis in my back as the result of an accident and surgery 15 years ago. There are some days it's a chore to get out of bed even with my RX arthritis medication. If it ever becomes legal for medicinal use I'm open to give it a try if it helps as much as I have been told marijuana helps arthritis

 

[BlackWorksInc]

So lots of knowledgable people here apparently. Let's hear it pros and cons. I think here we can keep it civil and have a nice discussion. Reino is not invited. COB, Dusty, JB, Mt. Rush and others are welcome. I honestly would like to know. I know all about alcohol lol. Keep it civil and everyone may learn something.

Honestly so far legalizing it has been a good thing in regards to controlling quality/reducing the amount of "cut weed" that is laced with a lot of bad crap. It provides a taxable revenue for states that ends up working well for them. The health aspects of it are still being studied and if the Federal status of it becomes legalized we may see a lot of good medical advancements coming from studying it more.

The biggest problem right now with weed is the sheer amount of damage it's doing to the environment fro growing. This was the most shocking thing I learned about recently, I figured it wasn't great; but the extent to which it's hurting a lot of the California forests and other popular grow areas is astonishing. I think as it progresses to being legalized federally this type of damage will be reduced/better regulated, but right now it's just shocking.

 

[xwake4lifex]

Honestly so far legalizing it has been a good thing in regards to controlling quality/reducing the amount of "cut weed" that is laced with a lot of bad crap. It provides a taxable revenue for states that ends up working well for them. The health aspects of it are still being studied and if the Federal status of it becomes legalized we may see a lot of good medical advancements coming from studying it more.

The biggest problem right now with weed is the sheer amount of damage it's doing to the environment fro growing. This was the most shocking thing I learned about recently, I figured it wasn't great; but the extent to which it's hurting a lot of the California forests and other popular grow areas is astonishing. I think as it progresses to being legalized federally this type of damage will be reduced/better regulated, but right now it's just shocking.

I could go on and on about this. I've seen a lot of this damage first hand and it's horrendous.

 

[Thai]

Evidence Lacking on Benefits of Cannabis for Treating Chronic Pain, PTSD
By Kelly Young

Evidence is limited on the benefits of cannabis use for treating chronic pain and post-traumatic stress disorder, according to two reviews in the Annals of Internal Medicine.

The review on chronic pain included 75 studies that examined the potential benefits and harms of cannabis use. There was low-strength evidence that cannabis could help ease neuropathic pain in some patients, based primarily on studies of nabiximols (oral spray containing tetrahydrocannabinol plus cannabidiol). The authors found insufficient evidence to make a conclusion about other forms of pain. In terms of potential harms, some evidence suggested that daily use may lead to adverse pulmonary effects over time.

A separate review of five studies found a dearth of evidence on cannabis's benefits and harms in PTSD.

An editorialist concludes: "Even if future studies reveal a clear lack of substantial benefit of cannabis for pain or PTSD, legislation is unlikely to remove these conditions from the lists of indications for medical cannabis. It will be up to front-line practicing physicians to learn about the harms and benefits of cannabis, educate their patients on these topics, and make evidence-based recommendations about using cannabis and related products for various health conditions...."