The Mushroom Factory

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A Mushroom Factory, is a place where you are kept in the dark and fed bullshit.

This is what is going on at IH8mud, I recently posted about the misconceptions about the enclosed steering knuckle, the thread has been since been sucked into this factory and deleted,

There are individuals that when a question comes up on this subject put out mis leading information, propaganda

This mis information is being piped out of none other than the Toyota university. There are 6 or 7 thing about the design that I have proven beyond any doubt that I was told by these folks with BS degrees, either flat out did not exist or were not possible, One of the fist things they will tell you is that there is a spindle seal,
Longfield if you are agreeing with this you are part of the problem not the solution

I have been in contact with the editors of the TLCA ,Todd there seems to see the situation for what it is . Robbie however is stuck in this pathetic place, spoon fed propaganda.

I dont care if you what you think of me, I am attempting to kick in this door and shed some light on the situation, I do not think that woody at IH*MUD is aware of the situation,
Kurt Williams and I are on much better terms than when we first met, he has stated that either way he will sell parts, If what I have found is the shit for you knuckle he will sell parts just the same,
Longfield I need your help, you know full well the is no spindle seal, I need some one in these Toyota circles that has some clout to fight this very effective machine,
I will put you in touch with those in the Spokane and North Id area that have helped me thu this past year researching this subject.

Thanks Frank
 
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I don't get it. What's the controversy over? What's the propaganda that their pushing? What is it about the enclosed steering knuckle that's causing such a debate? what's your research on? Just wondering....
 
A Mushroom Factory, is a place where you are kept in the dark and fed bullshit.

This is what is going on at IH8mud, I recently posted about the misconceptions about the enclosed steering knuckle, the thread has been since been sucked into this factory and deleted,

There are individuals that when a question comes up on this subject put out mis leading information, propaganda

This mis information is being piped out of none other than the Toyota university. There are 6 or 7 thing about the design that I have proven beyond any doubt that I was told by these folks with BS degrees, either flat out did not exist or were not possible, One of the fist things they will tell you is that there is a spindle seal,
Longfield if you are agreeing with this you are part of the problem not the solution

I have been in contact with the editors of the TLCA ,Todd there seems to see the situation for what it is . Robbie however is stuck in this pathetic place, spoon fed propaganda.

I dont care if you what you think of me, I am attempting to kick in this door and shed some light on the situation, I do not think that woody at IH*MUD is aware of the situation,
Kurt Williams and I are on much better terms than when we first met, he has stated that either way he will sell parts, If what I have found is the shit for you knuckle he will sell parts just the same,
Longfield I need your help, you know full well the is no spindle seal, I need some one in these Toyota circles that has some clout to fight this very effective machine,
I will put you in touch with those in the Spokane and North Id area that have helped me thu this past year researching this subject.

Thanks Frank

kewl beans brah
 
I can't say for sure what happened at IH8Mud but Frank has put a great deal time and effort into Toyota (and other) solid front axles of the Birfield design. The aftermarket has limited knowledge and access to the magic, mystery grease type the factory uses (a long strand lighter than #2 grease).

Why is it a big deal? Because the 'original build' seems to run 15years, 100k-150k just fine (or some REALLY long time). After that all the Birfield guys have to redo the grease every couple of years and far less miles. He's worked/working to make people aware of how important and how much money they can save with the correct grease type (and how to get it).

Frank's company*, Cruiser Outfitters, does a lot of work with the older Toyo axles in the LC's, 1st gen 4Runners and some SAS's.

Search his username, it's quite an education in grease:D
:cheers:


* I am unclear if he works/worked there, owns Cruiser Outfitters or what... "Frank's company" may have been a misleading way to make the point.
 
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Toyota core axle - Utah's Rock Crawling and Off-Road Forum

I do not have a affilitation with Kurt Williams, other than he supplied the parts,

The quote I use from him is when I first posted on Utah Rock Crawler on a thread called Toyota Steering Knuckle leak, lets just say my jaw just dropped when I read that cause I am met with such a fierce restistance to my findings that I can only think that this is a Type of lube Toyota uses that they do not want you to know about it

The fist time I brought it up on mudd I was compleatly astonished at the lack of knowledge on the subject

They had a answer for everthing, but none of them where right, they got on my case about this being my first axle overhaul and I didnt know what I was talking about

so a year later I did my second Toyota axle, and pointed out 6 things that the boys in the mushroom factory did not know other than the lube

basically any little clue that would tell a guy that this design was meant for a fluid they compleatly deny, or make up compleat and utter BS and then ask me to Prove what I was talking about I did they banned me again

The place is crawling with misconceptions about the design

Ih8mudd, steering knuckle lube thread read it will blow you away I disproved all there crap, with this latest, and they said what only your 2 or third axle?

no there are folks over there that pump in crap on the subject, actually this is only Toyota forum that hasnt banned me so I know for sure the Toyota folks out there that are pumping this crap out, arnt here, thanks
 
Having said all that, here's a primer on what I think is happening with your front axle. Looking under your front end from the front bumper, the front axle housing terminates at each end in spherical steel structure. In this sphere (STEERING KNUCKLE) are your birfield joints. The sphere is supposed to be full of thick grease. The axle housing (including diff) is supposed to be full of thin gear oil. Right as the axle housing flares into that sphere there is a seal through which the actual axle shaft pierces. The seal (AXLE SEAL) keeps the two types of fluids (thick grease/thin oil) apart. Another seal (STEERING KNUCKLE SEAL) keeps the thick grease from leaking out of the sphere onto the outside of the spherical surface you can see. It is normal for there to be some weeping here, and these seals slide directly against the outside of the sphere, leaving "edges" of thick grease built up at the limits of the wheel's turning ability. Normal.

Over time, the AXLE seal wears and allows the thin grease into the steering knuckle. Here, it thins the grease out, and the grease runs out of the steering knuckle through the STEERING KNUCKLE SEALS, and also sometimes even onto the wheels via the drive plates. After awhile, the differential oil is low, and the steering knuckle is low - endangering both expensive components.

Here is where things typically go horribly awry on a LandCruiser - owing to its uniqueness and the typical ignorance of many mechanics on these somewhat rare aspects.

The lowest form of this mechanic ignorance takes this form: On the upper forward part of the steering knuckle is a square plug. This plug is only to be used to CHECK the grease level in the steering knuckle. But mechanics think this is to FILL the knuckle. It should only be used as an indicator of the grease level since the last disassembly and repack. Not for adding. Putting grease in here does not get it to the actual birfield joint - which is the place where it needs to be. So, many mechanics simply stuff grease in here and send the LandCruiser owner on his merry way thinking he's properly serviced the knuckle/joint. Unfortunately, the birfield resides in a separate chamber inside of the steering knuckle and it's still devoid of grease no matter how much you jam in that plug hole. This is the lowest form of maintenance and the cheapest.

The second form of error costs a lot of money. The mechanic properly strips down the steering knuckle and repacks the birfield/steering knuckle by pulling the axle partway (but not all the way) out. Pulling it all the way out is simply a matter of pulling it another 3 feet and laying it on the bench, BTW. Upon reassembly, they replace the seals that seem to be allowing the grease to run out of the sphere where you can see it built up as mentioned earlier. They think this seal is the problem, after all (its actually a triple seal of rubber, felt and steel designed to contain thick grease, NOT thin oil) as that's where the leak is. Honest mistake, but it's the AXLE SEAL that is causing the grease to thin and leak. The axle is reassembled, the customer pays the bill (usually around $600 per side) and they drive off with that aforementioned axle seal not replaced. Anywhere from a month to 6 months later, the continued contamination of thin gear oil causes the thinned grease/oil mix to run out that new fancy triple seal again and causes a mess and lack of lube AGAIN. Sound familiar?

So, what needs to be done is a PROPER axle service that will again last 60,000 miles before the axle seal starts to wear and leak. I doubt your birfield is toast, but will wait to hear about the "click" test to help you make a judgement. If your front diff has not been allowed to get low, the birfield is still running in oil and that's completely OK.

Back to your front shaft. There are no less than THREE grease fittings on it and most mechanics are used to zero, or one. So, it may be that you simply need someone to grease the three zirc fittings. The more I think about it, this should be done before anything else and takes someone with a grease gun about 3 minutes if they take the time to properly wipe off each fitting before filling it with grease.

IdahoDoug

Unquote



This is a well crafted piece of propaganda that they will not allow me to post on NW Wheeler, and any other times that I have posted it just vanishes into the void of darkness at the Toyota propaganda machine

I dont know if you guys know much about the design but there are three things that I would like to point out

#1 The birfield does not reside in a seperate chamber
#2 The build up of grease Where the ball termintates only occurs with a semi fluid grease, from what I have observed
#3 If in the event of axle seal failure the oil will enter the seperate chamber that does not exist and be just fine

If some one could please email Bobby Long at Longfield axles and ask him what his position is at this Mushroom factory
Is he sucking it up or pumping it in or there on his own accord?

He has not repled to my emails,
From what I have gathered Idaho Doug is a corporate Toyota guy
 
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Any Ideas guys??

I would like to possibly get some imput on what to do here, I know it sounds a bit fantastical, but it is the sad situation in those circles

Perhaps I need to explain my self a bit better, I am just going around in circles with these guys trying to help them get the correct info

Dont get me wrong I am not anti Toyota they are great rigs what I am is anti BS who can I present this info to?
This info is regarded as a joke, on the NW Wheeler site,
so if you have any ideas please let me know where to go with this.
 
seems really weird that they would ban you for posting something like that

did they turn into arguments??

were there people that disagreed with your findings??
 
Hornets nest

Oh man you wouldnt believe it, I cant hardly believe it. I came to them with good hopes, Hey I found some thing here that is been over looked and is the answer to most of the problems with the solid axle

I was told the fist time I went to that sad place, by a individaul that worked for The Toyota Information services, that the Type of lube was a moly based grease, which come to find out is not actually a base of grease but a additive

In there lies the problem the FSM indicates to use a #2 lithium grease
The initiall fill is a #0 sodium grease the two are incompatible, causes wiper seal leaks one of there main complaints,
It is a design that will last 30 or more years with practically no maintance . with this factory lube

The factory manual tells guys to use the wrong grease that is harmful to the vehicle,
The mushroom factory has them snowed

I can find absolutly no body to take this serious,

I do have hope, consider yourself lucky your out in the light over here, in the real world, they are in the dark, I have heard of brainwashing but I have never seen it

More info on Toyota Trade secret thread, on this site
 
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update

Howdy 4-runner folks, I have been waging a information war, IH8mudd, Pirate, Yota tech, and a couple of others have banned me for introducing the Truth,

There have always been a bit misconceptions in the industry regarding the type of lube for the enclosed 4wd steering axle,

While the older books give rather vague discriptions and sometimes conflicting information, in the same book, I have found a unbreakable ring of deception surrounding these websites,

I am posting on NW Wheelers as I mentioned the last post I put up they completely eliminated the whole catagory

The problem is as I have stated that the FSM indicates to use a incompatible base of grease,
I know it doesnt directly apply here but I think there are some early 4-runners that use this design I have worked very hard launching a information war, at this point I feel this site is a island in a sea of deception

Thanks Frank
 
Editors

What about writing to a couple of Toyota or Off-Roading mags?,

I have,
I contacted David Zartman of Toyota Owner magazine, Gave him a press ready article,
His response was, "Very interesting but here at Toyota Owner Magazine we are into more hard parts technical"

I have contacted TLCA editors Todd and Robbie while Todd seems to see the situation for what it is, Robbie on the other hand has been mislead
 
Howdy 4-runner folks, I have been waging a information war, IH8mudd, Pirate, Yota tech, and a couple of others have banned me for introducing the Truth,

There have always been a bit misconceptions in the industry regarding the type of lube for the enclosed 4wd steering axle,

While the older books give rather vague discriptions and sometimes conflicting information, in the same book, I have found a unbreakable ring of deception surrounding these websites,

I am posting on NW Wheelers as I mentioned the last post I put up they completely eliminated the whole catagory

The problem is as I have stated that the FSM indicates to use a incompatible base of grease,
I know it doesnt directly apply here but I think there are some early 4-runners that use this design I have worked very hard launching a information war, at this point I feel this site is a island in a sea of deception

Thanks Frank
Dude you got banned because you are a troll. Also the tech section has not been deleted. You never once presented any evidence or even a coherent reason as to why there is a vast grease conspiracy. Also, the guys not that site are physically breaking the birds before they wear out. On those trucks they explode before wearing out, and they are using aftermarket longfields that are (8x?) stronger than the stickers and the guy that makes them recommends grease not oil. Now you're pitching this stuff on a site for IFS yotas, good luck!:flipoff:
 
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Troll

Dude you got banned because you are a troll. Also the tech section has not been deleted. You never once presented any evidence or even a coherent reason as to why there is a vast grease conspiracy. Also, the guys not that site are physically breaking the birds before they wear out. On those trucks they explode before wearing out, and they are using aftermarket longfields that are (8x?) stronger than the stickers and the guy that makes them recommends grease not oil. Now you're pitching this stuff on a site for IFS yotas, good luck!


Ok Dude, this is the only Toyota site where this subject is discussed in a friendly manner please lets try to keep it that way

I have only stated that the information in the FSM is incorrect as far as it being a vast conspiracy that is your Take

The design from a mechanical engineering standpoint is the evidence that it is designed for a semi fluid grease,
If you would like to explain 1 reason that a #2 grease as indicated in the Toyota FSM is better than initail factory Toyota fill please do so

1 reason, just one, I have studied and researched this subject for a year now

I cant think of any thing why Toyota would tell you to use a #2 grease, and have it be better than what they fill it up with,

1 reason

And by the way early 4- runners used this straight axle, 84-85
 
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I didn't want to do this, but I felt I must.

I have taken apart dozens of toyota solid axles (I'm a Toyota tech) and not once have I found any sort of grease like what frank is describing, UNLESS there was an axle seal failure.
Gear oil gets into the knuckle, thins out the thick (not soupy) grease that comes in the knuckles, then the knuckles start to seep past the sweeps, making a big mess of the knuckle ball, lower trunion caps, and eventually starts seeping out of the lockout hub or drive flange, etc.
Big nasty mess.

I have also torn into the knuckles on cars that had not had an axle seal failure. they did not have this thin soupy stuff in the knuckles, nor were the knuckles leaking before hand. (one was a broken ring/pinion on a fzj80, the other was a bad side gear on a fj62)

The repair manuals clearly state (multiple years, buth truck/4runner and landcruiser) what grease to use, and it is not sodium based.

I have done knuckle jobs on cars that are into the double digits of years since the repair, with no re-occuring knuckle leakage. ( I do live in washington, there is little rust here to speak of, so no severely pitted knuckle balls)

Frank has not, in any way shape or form, provided proof that the trucks came from the factory with any sort of sodium based grease.
The info he is feeding you is from VERY old jeep and "motors" manuals.
Nothing at all to do with Toyota.
his theory is that the solid axle's closed knuckles needs this really thin stuff to keep everything lubed properly. While it's a good theory, it just doesn't pan out.

This great conspiracy theory is just that too..... a conspiracy theory.

He'll also tell you that Bobby Long (longfield super axles) should NOT be putting moly grease in his lifetime warranty birfields.

I have nothing to gain or lose by him convincing anyone or not. Not a single thing.
BUT.
If I went and put the stuff he's talking about in my knuckles, not only would it ooze out all over the place, and if that stuff oozes out enough, it can get on your brakes.
It would probably void the warranty on the longfields.
AND.... this stuff he's toting doesn't perform as well as newer alternatives.

here's a description of variuous greases.
note the sodium section, and the lithium section.

(1) Calcium or lime grease, the first of the modern production greases, is prepared by reacting mineral
oil with fats, fatty acids, a small amount of water, and calcium hydroxide (also known as hydrated lime).
The water modifies the soap structure to absorb mineral oil. Because of water evaporation, calcium grease
is sensitive to elevated temperatures. It dehydrates at temperatures around 79 EC (175 EF) at which its
structure collapses, resulting in softening and, eventually, phase separation. Greases with soft
consistencies can dehydrate at lower temperatures while greases with firm consistencies can lubricate
satisfactorily to temperatures around 93 EC (200 EF). In spite of the temperature limitations, lime grease
does not emulsify in water and is excellent at resisting “wash out.” Also, its manufacturing cost is
relatively low. If a calcium grease is prepared from 12-hydroxystearic acid, the result is an anhydrous
(waterless) grease. Since dehydration is not a concern, anhydrous calcium grease can be used continuously
to a maximum temperature of around 110 EC (230 EF).
EM 1110-2-1424
28 Feb 99
5-7
(2) Calcium complex grease is prepared by adding the salt calcium acetate. The salt provides the
grease with extreme pressure characteristics without using an additive. Dropping points greater than
260 EC (500 EF) can be obtained and the maximum usable temperature increases to approximately 177 EC
(350 EF). With the exception of poor pumpability in high-pressure centralized systems, where caking and
hardening sometimes occur calcium complex greases have good all-around characteristics that make them
desirable multipurpose greases.
b. Sodium grease. Sodium grease was developed for use at higher operating temperatures than the
early hydrated calcium greases. Sodium grease can be used at temperatures up to 121 EC (250 EF), but it
is soluble in water and readily washes out. Sodium is sometimes mixed with other metal soaps, especially
calcium, to improve water resistance. Although it has better adhesive properties than calcium grease, the
use of sodium grease is declining due to its lack of versatility. It cannot compete with water-resistant, more
heat-resistant multipurpose greases. It is, however, still recommended for certain heavy-duty applications
and well-sealed electric motors.
c. Aluminum grease.
(1) Aluminum grease is normally clear and has a somewhat stringy texture, more so when produced
from high-viscosity oils. When heated above 79 EC (175 EF), this stringiness increases and produces a
rubberlike substance that pulls away from metal surfaces, reducing lubrication and increasing power
consumption. Aluminum grease has good water resistance, good adhesive properties, and inhibits rust
without additives, but it tends to be short-lived. It has excellent inherent oxidation stability but relatively
poor shear stability and pumpability.
(2) Aluminum complex grease has a maximum usable temperature of almost 100 EC (212 EF) higher
than aluminum-soap greases. It has good water-and-chemical resistance but tends to have shorter life in
high-temperature, high-speed applications.
d. Lithium grease.
(1) Smooth, buttery-textured lithium grease is by far the most popular when compared to all others.
The normal grease contains lithium 12-hydroxystearate soap. It has a dropping point around 204 EC
(400 EF) and can be used at temperatures up to about 135 EC (275 EF). It can also be used at
temperatures as low as -35 EC (-31 EF) . It has good shear stability and a relatively low coefficient of
friction, which permits higher machine operating speeds. It has good water-resistance, but not as good as
that of calcium or aluminum. Pumpability and resistance to oil separation are good to excellent. It does
not naturally inhibit rust, but additives can provide rust resistance. Anti-oxidants and extreme pressure
additives are also responsive in lithium greases.
(2) Lithium complex grease and lithium soap grease have similar properties except the complex grease
has superior thermal stability as indicated by a dropping point of 260 EC (500 EF). It is generally
considered to be the nearest thing to a true multipurpose grease.
e. Other greases. Thickeners other than soaps are available to make greases. Although most of these
are restricted to very special applications, two nonsoap greases are worthy of mention. One is organic, the
other inorganic.
EM 1110-2-1424
28 Feb 99
5-8
(1) Polyurea grease.
(a) Polyurea is the most important organic nonsoap thickener. It is a low-molecular-weight organic
polymer produced by reacting amines (an ammonia derivative) with isocyanates, which results in an oilsoluble
chemical thickener. Polyurea grease has outstanding resistance to oxidation because it contains no
metal soaps (which tend to invite oxidation). It effectively lubricates over a wide temperature range of
-20 to 177 EC (-4 to 350 EF) and has long life. Water-resistance is good to excellent, depending on the
grade. It works well with many elastomer seal materials. It is used with all types of bearings but has been
particularly effective in ball bearings. Its durability makes it well suited for sealed-for-life bearing
applications.
(b) Polyurea complex grease is produced when a complexing agent, most commonly calcium acetate or
calcium phosphate, is incorporated into the polymer chain. In addition to the excellent properties of normal
polyurea grease, these agents add inherent extreme pressure and wear protection properties that increase the
multipurpose capabilities of polyurea greases.
(2) Organo-clay. Organo-clay is the most commonly used inorganic thickener. Its thickener is a
modified clay, insoluble in oil in its normal form, but through complex chemical processes, converts to
platelets that attract and hold oil. Organo-clay thickener structures are amorphous and gel-like rather than
the fibrous, crystalline structures of soap thickeners. This grease has excellent heat-resistance since clay
does not melt. Maximum operating temperature is limited by the evaporation temperature of its mineral oil,
which is around 177 EC (350 EF). However, with frequent grease changes, this multipurpose grease can
operate for short periods at temperatures up to its dropping point, which is about 260 EC (500 EF). A
disadvantage is that greases made with higher-viscosity oils for high thermal stability will have poor lowtemperature
performance. Organo-clay grease has excellent water-resistance but requires additives for
oxidation and rust resistance. Work stability is fair to good. Pumpability and resistance to oil separation
are good for this buttery textured grease.
5-9. Compatibility
a. Greases are considered incompatible when the physical or performance characteristics of the mixed
grease falls below original specifications. In general, greases with different chemical compositions should
not be mixed. Mixing greases of different thickeners can form a mix that is too firm to provide sufficient
lubrication or more commonly, a mix that is too soft to stay in place.
b. Combining greases of different base oils can produce a fluid component that will not provide a
continuous lubrication film. Additives can be diluted when greases with different additives are mixed.
Mixed greases may become less resistant to heat or have lower shear stability. If a new brand of grease
must be introduced, the component part should be disassembled and thoroughly cleaned to remove all of
the old grease. If this is not practical, the new grease should be injected until all traces of the prior product
are flushed out. Also, the first grease changes should be more frequent than normally scheduled.
grease technology has come a LONG way since the first enclosed knuckle steering axles.
the fact that we have the quintisential birfield comnpared to the ball and claw design says the desigen has come a long way as well.


long story short, there is alot of info out there on the correct stuff used IN TOYOTAS, and none, exept frank, on this sodium stuff.

Do your own research, including searches on "tranny frank" and "backwoods goop" before you go tearing into your axles, that's all.
 
The burden of proof

I didn't want to do this, but I felt I must.

I have taken apart dozens of toyota solid axles (I'm a Toyota tech) and not once have I found any sort of grease like what frank is describing, UNLESS there was an axle seal failure.
Gear oil gets into the knuckle, thins out the thick (not soupy) grease that comes in the knuckles, then the knuckles start to seep past the sweeps, making a big mess of the knuckle ball, lower trunion caps, and eventually starts seeping out of the lockout hub or drive flange, etc.
Big nasty mess.

I have also torn into the knuckles on cars that had not had an axle seal failure. they did not have this thin soupy stuff in the knuckles, nor were the knuckles leaking before hand. (one was a broken ring/pinion on a fzj80, the other was a bad side gear on a fj62)

The repair manuals clearly state (multiple years, buth truck/4runner and landcruiser) what grease to use, and it is not sodium based.

I have done knuckle jobs on cars that are into the double digits of years since the repair, with no re-occuring knuckle leakage. ( I do live in washington, there is little rust here to speak of, so no severely pitted knuckle balls)

Frank has not, in any way shape or form, provided proof that the trucks came from the factory with any sort of sodium based grease.
The info he is feeding you is from VERY old jeep and "motors" manuals.
Nothing at all to do with Toyota.
his theory is that the solid axle's closed knuckles needs this really thin stuff to keep everything lubed properly. While it's a good theory, it just doesn't pan out.

This great conspiracy theory is just that too..... a conspiracy theory.

He'll also tell you that Bobby Long (longfield super axles) should NOT be putting moly grease in his lifetime warranty birfields.

I have nothing to gain or lose by him convincing anyone or not. Not a single thing.
BUT.
If I went and put the stuff he's talking about in my knuckles, not only would it ooze out all over the place, and if that stuff oozes out enough, it can get on your brakes.
It would probably void the warranty on the longfields.
AND.... this stuff he's toting doesn't perform as well as newer alternatives.

here's a description of variuous greases.
note the sodium section, and the lithium section.


grease technology has come a LONG way since the first enclosed knuckle steering axles.
the fact that we have the quintisential birfield comnpared to the ball and claw design says the desigen has come a long way as well.


long story short, there is alot of info out there on the correct stuff used IN TOYOTAS, and none, exept frank, on this sodium stuff.

Do your own research, including searches on "tranny frank" and "backwoods goop" before you go tearing into your axles, that's all.



"I have taken apart dozens of toyota solid axles (I'm a Toyota tech) and not once have I found any sort of grease like what frank is describing, UNLESS there was an axle seal failure"

Unless there was axle seal failure,

Well that is the Deal Rixxer, that your not seeing, #0 and #1 Grade of Greases is misdiagnosed by you (Sales Trained Toyota Tech) as

Varying degrees of axle seal failure,

.
Screenshot2011-07-07at71254AM.png~original


#0 and #1 grease,
 
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