theesotericone
New member
Top strut is fine. So is the a-arm. Nothing is bent or cracked that I can find. Even with over-compression on the suspension the CV should not allow that force to transfer to the diff. Or so I would think.
theesotericone's Trails and BS Thread
- Thread starter theesotericone
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Top strut is fine. So is the a-arm. Nothing is bent or cracked that I can find. Even with over-compression on the suspension the CV should not allow that force to transfer to the diff. Or so I would think.
jkeith.w
Official Vendor
I bet that big honkin' king upper mount acts as a strut tower reinforcement, so there's that. I also assume that the compressed length of the axle is appropriate, but I haven't actually measured it to know..
Dezert4Runner
Senior Member
Could any of the tweaking (especially the King c/o shaft) have been caused from all that sideways winching when your tie rod bent?
theesotericone
New member
Nope. I never actually winched it. We just put the line under tension to keep the truck from sliding downhill. Even if I did winch if for 20 feet the UBJ or LBJ would have taken the force. I'm pretty handy with physics and other than a hydrolock in the shock when I was taking a hard drop I cant figure out how that bent without other components bending.
Dezert4Runner
Senior Member
What about the truck moving forward with the LCA bushings deflecting? I’m thinking the LCA is designed to go straight up and down so any movement horizontally could potentially cause that, especially when the shaft (giggity) is extended since it would be at it’s most vulnerable to bend with some leverage :shrug:
Black798
New member
Im also thinking this had to of happened at the same time the tie rod bent. I remember one of the guys from your trip mentioning and seeing a picture of one of the CVs you had broken with a split outer case. To me it looked like it tore the actual case rather than fracturing.
What may have happened was when you bent the tie rod the suspension was also drooped out, this mass amount of movement allowed the outer rzeppa joint to fully bind up at the very far extreme end of it range of motion rather than break the cage inside. When that happened it essentially turned the whole axle into one big pry bar hooked to the diff which I see having the potential to break/bend all sorts of things.
As for the bent king shaft that both blows my mind and confuses me. Are there any scrapes in the powder coat on the coil that would show the CV making contact or something else pushing on it?
EDIT: after doing some reading there is also a chance that there could have been an error in assembly on that specific coilover. There is one bolt that holds the to the alignment guide and if that came lose it could have caused the shock to basically bottom out and bind on compression causing the bend.
What may have happened was when you bent the tie rod the suspension was also drooped out, this mass amount of movement allowed the outer rzeppa joint to fully bind up at the very far extreme end of it range of motion rather than break the cage inside. When that happened it essentially turned the whole axle into one big pry bar hooked to the diff which I see having the potential to break/bend all sorts of things.
As for the bent king shaft that both blows my mind and confuses me. Are there any scrapes in the powder coat on the coil that would show the CV making contact or something else pushing on it?
EDIT: after doing some reading there is also a chance that there could have been an error in assembly on that specific coilover. There is one bolt that holds the to the alignment guide and if that came lose it could have caused the shock to basically bottom out and bind on compression causing the bend.
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Mark_BC
Senior Member
I say SAS it. These things weren't meant for this kind of abuse. If you want the handling of IFS but also be strong you'll need to build it up like the Outlaw. I'm just p!ssed we have such a poor selection of SFA vehicles to choose from in North America. We definitely got shafted by Toyota and Nissan.
theesotericone
New member
Except both the upper shock mount and the lower mount are built on pivots. It could happen but the LCA would have to be moved back a large amount. That didn't happen unless it self repaired. lol
Both joints would have to be bound for that to happen and the CV cage would have to be stronger then the force required to move the diff up. I'm pretty much an expert on shredding CV's at this point and I don't believe they're strong enough to do that. I like the theory though. It's possible.
There's some scuffs but nothing that would be able to cause enough force to bend a 7/8" shaft. It had to be vertical drop that caused it. The only way that happens is if the shock hydro locks. So the full weight of the rig comes down on a locked shock causing the shaft to bend exactly like mine did.
Dezert4Runner
Senior Member
I guess what I’m trying to say is of the LCA bushings have enough play to allow some lateral movement while the c/o is fully extended or even partially extended it probably wouldn’t be impossible since the upper c/o mount is fixed and the LCA could be the leveraging factor. That tire was pointing pigeon toed and while moving forward it has to be putting tremendous force on areas it shouldn’t be, like the LCA mounts.
theesotericone
New member
I emailed Filthy today and they got back to me. In the email I sent them a few photo's of the bent King. They emailed back saying they'd get the process started but would like to see some photo's of my LCA and UCA. LMAO. There thinking the same thing I was. Something has to be ****ed. lol
Hopefully this goes quickly and painlessly. Knowing King I'm sure it's gonna be a super easy process.:snacker:
Hopefully this goes quickly and painlessly. Knowing King I'm sure it's gonna be a super easy process.:snacker:
AssBurns
New member
theesotericone
New member
I'm trying to give them this thing called the benefit of the doubt. I don't really no what the hell that is but my wife tells me I need to do it more. Or at all really. lol
I haven't sold my old Billies yet so I'll use those until this gets sorted out. Those Billies have 2 years and thousands of miles of wheeling under them and are till going strong. Those Kings have 1 month and 33 miles of wheling on them. Remind me again why I wanted these things? lol
thezentree
Senior Member
because trophy truck
theesotericone
New member
OK. Here's a few small updates.
The bent King #fvckking is not hydrolocked. I'll take it apart sometime this year and replace the shaft.
I also put some limit straps up front. I used TG's 8" straps and TG's clevis. I mounted the lowers to the stock sway bar bracket. For the upper a piece of 3/4" chromoly was welded to the frame.
I limited my droop by 1/2" per side. This resulted in no binding of the CV at any angle. To test them I went out and ran Motino Wash. It's a pretty good trail to break shit on. My rig performed great and I didn't break a damn thing.
I was way to hung over to get any photo's so maybe someone else will do a trip report for this trail. It was a big group. 7 rigs. All told the 1.5 mile trail took 6 hours. There was 2 broken CV's on a 4th gen, one destroyed axle shaft on a Taco and some body damage. Good times. lol
Here's some shots of the limit straps.
Here's the two shots a took of Motino. lol
The bent King #fvckking is not hydrolocked. I'll take it apart sometime this year and replace the shaft.
I also put some limit straps up front. I used TG's 8" straps and TG's clevis. I mounted the lowers to the stock sway bar bracket. For the upper a piece of 3/4" chromoly was welded to the frame.
I limited my droop by 1/2" per side. This resulted in no binding of the CV at any angle. To test them I went out and ran Motino Wash. It's a pretty good trail to break shit on. My rig performed great and I didn't break a damn thing.
I was way to hung over to get any photo's so maybe someone else will do a trip report for this trail. It was a big group. 7 rigs. All told the 1.5 mile trail took 6 hours. There was 2 broken CV's on a 4th gen, one destroyed axle shaft on a Taco and some body damage. Good times. lol
Here's some shots of the limit straps.
Here's the two shots a took of Motino. lol
theesotericone
New member
Johnson Valley CA
CLAW HAMMER
CLAW HAMMER
Johnson Valley holds a lot of appeal for off-road types. There's this little thing there every year called King Of The Hammers. Maybe you've heard of it. It's also 5 hours south of me so I never got a chance to wheel there.
After running Motino Wash a simple question was asked. How much harder is Claw Hammer then Motino. That answer was "not much". I knew I needed some like minded wheelers to pull this plan off. Luckily the group I wheel with is pretty easy to convince to actually go wheeling.
[MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] had some plan to go to an expo down south somewhere. Sounds like fun. Wouldn't you rather go wheeling though? Like, maybe, Claw Hammer? 38 seconds later he was in. Then Kyle quickly followed suit. Three rigs. Three guys that kinda know how to wheel. Three guys that definitely know how to turn a wrench. Perfect.
I headed down after work Friday night. I turned off of 247 onto Boone Road at 9:30PM. I aired down just as this was coming over my rig. Shitty photo but it's this crazy reddish moon. It was rad.
After driving around for a bit I found a nice flat spot to call home for the night. I met up with the others Saturday morning at 9:30ish. From there it was off to the trail. Luckily [MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] knew exactly where it was so we made quick time.
It's basically one giant boulder field with some larger obstacles thrown in. Looking up canyon I was pretty stoked to get into lo/lo and get going.
Here's Steven making one of the first obstacles look easy. It's not.
Who says you can't run this trail with 33's?
This was a super fun line.
More of that easy stuff.
Trust me, those rocks are bigger then they appear.
Kyle putting the tires to work.
Stevens first CV failure of the trip. He'd suffer one more. Easy fix as always.\
So many rocks to help you break things. More on that in a bit.
Sometimes those long ass Taco's need a few stacks to clear. Steven getting it done while Kyle keeps his foot on the brake. lol
I'm gonna have to cut that bumper back a bit when I go 35's.
At this point we're cruising the trail. We had to stack a few rocks but not much time was spent at all getting past obstacles. It's about 1:30PM and other than Stevens two CV's there's been no real carnage. Kyle is at the top and Steven and I aren't far behind. About 200 yards to go. That's when real carnage decided to say hi.
Here's real carnage:
My drivers side lower control link had folded at close to 90 degrees. That pulled the tire into the wheel well and slider. After getting out I also found the passenger upper control link bent at 70 degrees as well as the mount itself folded over.
After talking it over we decided to try pulling me a bit. That worked for about 30 seconds until my driveshaft snapped at the rear flange. It literally broke the flange on the diff side.
I got under the truck and strapped up the shaft. I tried again with just the fronts. 60 seconds later I lost the drivers side CV. If your gonna have a catastrophic failure make sure you do it right. lol
So, out comes the winch. It stays out for the longest 200 yards of my life. Kyle had to come back down to chain to Steven because I was just pulling him towards me. We got set up and winched. And winched. And winched.
Check out the angle of the shadows in these shots. It got late fast.
After getting to a sandy flat area up top it was time for some field repairs. With all the winching my lower control link had snapped by this point. That was actually a good thing. Kyle happened to have a 16" metal pry bar. We used that, some straps and some Gorilla tape to affect a quick repair.
I also pulled the rear driveshaft and fixed my busted CV. With that done we limped me back to the road under my own power.
I thanked both those guys and they went home. I went to bed. In the morning I called AAA and got towed 200 miles. Then another 60 miles home on my wife's membership. Sweet.
Tonight I pulled my rig into the garage. It likes it there. Metal Tech lowers are on the way. My driveshaft will go back to Tom Woods tomorrow. They're gonna look at the failure, fix it, and warranty it. Here that King? #fvckKing
So by next weekend I'll be back to wheeling. At least that's the plan.
Even with all the carnage this has to be one of the best trails I've done. It's super technical and gives you just enough to let you pass in a well built IFS rig. So, that's Claw Hammer guys. Get after it.
theesotericone
New member
I heard about this from Steven already, so I knew you made it back home; but then I saw this in your photo:
Is that King bent now, also?
I think that it's still straight. I might have dinged the upper cylinder though. I'll know for sure when I get some time to pull it. If it's bent at least I know how this one happened. Like I've said a bunch. Usually if you bend a shock shaft you have catastrophic failure on some other component that explains it. The front just bent without any failure. Oh and #fvckking. lol
It was a 5 dollar harbor freight pry bar that saved the day. You can prepare all you want but sometimes you just use what you have. This was one of those times and I'm glad Kyle had it.
Also, one of you guys needs an onboard welder!
No kidding. That discussion was had as we where fixing the lower link. lol
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