They've been out a while now, but how do the Bilstein 6112's compare to Icon, Kings??

[BXPhoto]

Untitled by Andrew Abalos, on Flickr

Updates to the 4Runner by Andrew Abalos, on Flickr


So its time for me to upgrade my front suspension. After my trip to the Mojave recently I realized that my front suspension just isn't enough for all the whoops etc on many of the trails. A couple of jumps and bottoming out on some of the whoops caved/pushed my front fenders LOL... 5100's and eibachs.

So now I know I need beefier 2.5" front shocks to handle miles of wheeling and some highspeed wheeling as well as my group was flying through the area. Most were built FJ's and Tacomas on Kings/Icon etc. I just couldnt keep up once we hit the whoops and my valving wasnt good enough.


How do the Bilstein 6112's compare to the Icon 2.5's and the King 2.5's? Also why do the Kings only give 2" of front lift? Is that enough to level my truck which is lifted 3" in the rear? The kings seem to have a much better overall reputation online vs the Icons. Is the extra cash over the Bilstein 6112's worth it? Are the external Resi 2.5's that much more of a help on long runs? Some threads I read people said they regret paying the extra for the external resi shocks. And in others they say they needed it.

 

[AssBurns]

From what it looks like, the 6112's are just 2.5" versions of the 5100's. I could be wrong though. For the price they are asking for them, I would save up the extra cash and go with Fox or King. Also the ability to tune your shocks is a bonus. If you are doing a lot of higher speed stuff, having the external resi is a big deal. Keeps your fluids cool and keeps your oil and gas from mixing. I would rather have 2.0 with resi's than 2.5 w/o resi's. I couldn't imaging that our stock suspension would really need 2.5's with resi's. Just added cost for the cool factor IMO.
As for Icon vs King or Fox. The difference is Digressive vs Progressive dampening. Digressive is nice for street driving where the suspension feels firm but on big hits it softens up, whereas progressive is soft until the bigger hits. For desert stuff, I'd go with progressive.

 

[ToyTec Lifts]

From what it looks like, the 6112's are just 2.5" versions of the 5100's. I could be wrong though.

THAT + they are a digressive shock. Not progressive.

 

[AssBurns]

THAT + they are a digressive shock. Not progressive.

Aren't the 5100's Digressive also?

 

[repo]

I thought they are beefier than 5100? 60mm vs 46mm piston.

 

[jstim]

So you're going to get a bunch of opinion. After a long talk with [MENTION=63487]A.Wilson013[/MENTION] I decided to buy the icons. He rode in a truck with the equivalent king version of what he had and couldn't tell a difference. That being said...icon is digressice, king is progressive. Before you get 1000 opinions, here is a graph that should tell you all you need to know about what you want. Outside of the spring rate on the coil lol.

 

[AssBurns]

[MENTION=110387]jstim[/MENTION] that is an great graph to show the differences between the two. Is that graph for offroad or on road conditions? On a street car I can see the benefits of digressive but for offroad conditions, it seems like progressive would be better since you would have softer dampening for the little bumps and stiffer dampening for the big hits like whoops, dropoffs, ruts, etc to keep you from bottoming out harsh.
I'm sure either one will be fine, especially if tuned properly but overall I think there is a general consensus that progressive is superior for offroad conditions.

 

[jstim]

[MENTION=110387]jstim[/MENTION] that is an great graph to show the differences between the two. Is that graph for offroad or on road conditions? On a street car I can see the benefits of digressive but for offroad conditions, it seems like progressive would be better since you would have softer dampening for the little bumps and stiffer dampening for the big hits like whoops, dropoffs, ruts, etc to keep you from bottoming out harsh.
I'm sure either one will be fine, especially if tuned properly but overall I think there is a general consensus that progressive is superior for offroad conditions.

On road or off would be the same. I mean, that graph is a general explanation of the difference. If you were going to compare King to Icon, you would have to pull their data to compare curves. This is one of the best explanations I have seen, and gives you the best idea of what your shock or coils are going to do. I'm with you, fast through the desert, King is the way to go, again according to how progressive vs digressive works. My rig is made for slower, overland type excursions, and I drive it a lot on the street. So I am running Icon.

 

[AssBurns]

What I mean was the differences of progressive vs digressive based on the notes it's not talking about offroad suspension. Probably road cars or motorcycles. The notes are biased. But yes I think we both agree on the application plays a big role in what type of shock you should go with.

 

[BXPhoto]

And then I ran into this article while doing my research. Claiming that Digressive shock technology is best for high speed off road situations with its newest valving design.


Screepcap by Andrew Abalos, on Flickr

 

[AssBurns]

[MENTION=142574]BXPhoto[/MENTION] what did you end up going with? Or still undecided?


By the way, that webpage you posted above is from a website all about upgrading Honda Elements. And the graph that was posted above that was in regards to Mountain Bike shocks. Either way they still describe how digressive and progressive works but they are referenced to different applications.

 

[BXPhoto]

[MENTION=142574]BXPhoto[/MENTION] what did you end up going with? Or still undecided?


By the way, that webpage you posted above is from a website all about upgrading Honda Elements. And the graph that was posted above that was in regards to Mountain Bike shocks. Either way they still describe how digressive and progressive works but they are referenced to different applications.

Im pretty sure Im going to go with the Kings 2.5 with resi for my fronts once budget allows. After weeks of forum searching they seem to have the least amount of complaints.

 

[AssBurns]

That would be a pretty *****in setup. That would have to be a custom order though, right? I don't remember King offering that in their catalog. You could always save a few bucks and get 2.0 with resi's so you don't have to save for so long. I'm sure there is nothing our stock suspension (non-long travel) can do to outrun a set of 2.0 with resi's. 2.5's with resi's would be awesome but definitely not needed for our application. Plus 2.0's with resi's are probably cheaper and carry more fluid than just 2.5 IFP's. Just a thought. That's what I'm planning on doing when I have the extra cash to do so.

 

[BXPhoto]

That would be a pretty *****in setup. That would have to be a custom order though, right? I don't remember King offering that in their catalog. You could always save a few bucks and get 2.0 with resi's so you don't have to save for so long. I'm sure there is nothing our stock suspension (non-long travel) can do to outrun a set of 2.0 with resi's. 2.5's with resi's would be awesome but definitely not needed for our application. Plus 2.0's with resi's are probably cheaper and carry more fluid than just 2.5 IFP's. Just a thought. That's what I'm planning on doing when I have the extra cash to do so.

Hmmmmm I did shop around and I think you're right. How high do the kings lift anyways? If I was going to a 2.0 setup with Resi's Toytec just updated their BOSS setup with resi's for a decent price. Im not sure who else makes a 2.0 setup that offers resi in the front with their coilovers.

 

[AssBurns]

You might be right about others not offering 2.0 w/ resi's. Fox offers 2.5's w/ resi's. Part #880-02-409. I'm going to just get an off the shelf set of coilovers and doing all the work myself. Probably gonna go with #980-02-006. It's a 6.5" shock but the length should be good for our setup as long as I run limit straps.