This is going to sound crazy but...

[02SE]

not a chance. insurance is THE reason medical bills are so high. they charge it because they CAN.

almost always cash pay is cheaper than what is billed to the insurance.

also, there is no way an overnight stay in the hospital is worth $10k, but that is what they charge for JUST the use of the room. horseshit. actual expense my ass.

There's also the small matter of millions of illegal aliens in this country that go to the ER, cannot be turned away and must be treated, and then of course never pay a cent for their care.

Those costs are passed along to suckers (like me) that believe in personal responsibility.

 

[Lineman]

what's the difference? they ARE a debt if you insist on paying them. it is still a payment towards something that hasn't even happened.

Perhaps if you wish to think of it that way. Debt is buying items you can't afford to pay for them later. Think of insurance as paying now because you can't afford to pay for them later. If you decide not to have any type of insurance medical, home, auto, life, renters you better have a lot of liquid money.

 

[JBurt]

What did I miss? When did catastrophic plans become illegal?

There's also the small matter of millions of illegal aliens in this country that go to the ER, cannot be turned away and must be treated, and then of course never pay a cent for their care.

Or you could be like me. I am completely covered through my work in Mexico (~12 miles away) and they don't deduct a dime from my paycheck. So far it works. If I'm away from home I have a $100 deductible at an ER and if I or my family get admitted then it's covered 100%. Not too bad.

However other people that work for my employer get screwed by this because it is a smaller insurance company and instead of everyone paying premiums and lowering them, there are a lot of people who go with Mexico insurance and that raises the premiums for people who want the regular plan.

I don't know what is the better option, but to cover my family through my work it would be over 1k a month, instead of $0. Plus the coverage through my wifes work is expensive and it covers us in the US.

This system is really screwed up.

 

[VolcanoT4R]

I thought about intentionally dropping health insurance when Obama-care was instituted but opted not to. The only reason I even considered it was because I'm single with NO KIDS. If either of those weren't the case, I'd never consider intentionally going without insurance. I ultimately decided that one way or another the health care system was going to get my money, so I might as well be covered for everything. Then my dad was diagnosed with melanoma. My grandfather on my mom's side had melanoma as well, so it runs on both sides of my family==>better keep my insurance.

As Chris Rock says, "Insurance = IN-CASE-$HIT"; the reason you pay for it is "in case $hit happens.

:snacker:

 

[ndcent]

I didn't have health insurance for a long time, thankfully I never needed it.

I hate both gambling and losing money on stupid things (go hand in hand I guess) and well that's what it always felt like.

I have it now and my executive health primary has continental breakfast and there's never a wait. I had no idea these fancy doctors existed but it's where my wife goes, fun times.

 

[JayceeP]

You would have to be incredibly disciplined and probably want to save more than your current premiums at least for the first few years to build a cushion. Perhaps you could invest these savings but, given the purpose if the funds, additional risk taking probably isn't wise.

I've gotta say, though, I didn't realize premiums would be that high for a young 3 person family, not to mention a $2,500 deductible, in the US. I thought it was more like $500-$700/month.

 

[AKmoney]

I don't have the answers but I would be worried about what services will cost you without insurance. The insurance companies have negotiated rates/prices for everything and they're all a lot cheaper than what you'd pay if you were Joe Sixpack walking in off the street. For example, if you needed an MRI, the radiology house will charge you $X for the procedure, but if you were insured they'd only bill your insurance company a fraction of that, perhaps $X/4. And hospitals would charge you $250 for a box of kleenex, and so on and so on..

That's one of the major problems with the system. Stuff simply costs too much and nobody has any idea what they'll get charged until they see the bill. Walking into a doctor's office or hospital isn't like walking into a restaurant. There's no menu with a price list for you to use to shop around with other, competing doctors or hospitals. Not quite as free of a market as they want you to believe, IMHO...

 

[nevada]

I don't have the answers but I would be worried about what services will cost you without insurance. The insurance companies have negotiated rates/prices for everything and they're all a lot cheaper than what you'd pay if you were Joe Sixpack walking in off the street. For example, if you needed an MRI, the radiology house will charge you $X for the procedure, but if you were insured they'd only bill your insurance company a fraction of that, perhaps $X/4. And hospitals would charge you $250 for a box of kleenex, and so on and so on..

That's one of the major problems with the system. Stuff simply costs too much and nobody has any idea what they'll get charged until they see the bill. Walking into a doctor's office or hospital isn't like walking into a restaurant. There's no menu with a price list for you to use to shop around with other, competing doctors or hospitals. Not quite as free of a market as they want you to believe, IMHO...

it has been my experience that you have that backwards.

the prices are almost always MORE expensive when insurance is involved/billed.

 

[2014 Warthog]

it has been my experience that you have that backwards.

the prices are almost always MORE expensive when insurance is involved/billed.

This may be weirdly different by state or even hospital system. But I've noticed that individual no-insurance billings are significantly HIGHER than what the insurance pays. Nearly every bill I have ever gotten has the default charge and then the "Insurance negotiated rate" which can be 3 to 5 times SMALLER.

Insurance has always paid a smaller amount on every hospital and doctor bill I've ever gotten in my adult life.

I have also gotten billed for the full amount due to an insurance card screw up and once again, the bill was enormous compared to what the insurance company eventually paid on my behalf. And that reduced rate is what you pay your deductible on so that negotiated rate not only helps out the insurance company but it helps out your own wallet too (Assuming your not maxing your deductible, at that point it doesn't matter to you any more).

That's not to say that if in fact you are not rich and you cry and threaten the biller enough that they may not knock the price down equal to a negotiated rate. But I've never seen them do that by default in my entire life.

 

[leftyguns21]

I had considered what the OP is considering to save money so I could move out of state. at the last minute I changed my mind and ended up adding insurance through my employer and SO glad I did. I broke my arm 2 weeks after the effective start date and the bill was $36k..I paid $5k out of pocket which still hurt my wallet but a whole lot better than what I could have had to pay.

I had a buddy with similar rationale on car insurance. he figured why pay $100+/month for car insurance 'just in case'. he figured getting a no insurance ticket a couple times was still cheaper than paying monthly...until he got in an accident that was his fault.

to each their own, if you've put a lot of thought in to it and feel like its the best idea that's all you...I like the 'peace of mind' and would rather carry insurance...health and car.

 

[slapdappy]

I had a buddy with similar rationale on car insurance. he figured why pay $100+/month for car insurance 'just in case'. he figured getting a no insurance ticket a couple times was still cheaper than paying monthly...until he got in an accident that was his fault.

This is different. Driving puts others at risk. Lack of health insurance puts only oneself at risk. It is the worst kind of self centeredness that allows a person to think it is acceptable to drive uninsured. I have zero empathy for uninsured drivers, who should receive ever more burdensome penalties and punishments with each additional instance of being discovered. It boggles my mind that a person can somehow rationalize that they alone should be relieved of any and all burden for harm to health and property their mistakes will cause, that the innocent other who is injured should bear the entire cost of the uninsured's carelessness. If you cannot afford the most basic of liability insurance then DO NOT DRIVE.
Has your buddy paid his debt? Was anyone injured? Minor collision? Cost of repairs?

 

[leftyguns21]

This is different. Driving puts others at risk. Lack of health insurance puts only oneself at risk. It is the worst kind of self centeredness that allows a person to think it is acceptable to drive uninsured. I have zero empathy for uninsured drivers, who should receive ever more burdensome penalties and punishments with each additional instance of being discovered. It boggles my mind that a person can somehow rationalize that they alone should be relieved of any and all burden for harm to health and property their mistakes will cause, that the innocent other who is injured should bear the entire cost of the uninsured's carelessness. If you cannot afford the most basic of liability insurance then DO NOT DRIVE.
Has your buddy paid his debt? Was anyone injured? Minor collision? Cost of repairs?

oh yeah hes an idiot. stories for days about his stupidity.

he turned left across a double yellow and hit some guy test driving a car.
I highly doubt he paid for it. he left the state (CA) to run away. no one was injured in it thankfully. I don't talk to him anymore but I wouldn't be surprised if hes still driving around without insurance.

 

[nevada]

This is different. Driving puts others at risk. Lack of health insurance puts only oneself at risk. It is the worst kind of self centeredness that allows a person to think it is acceptable to drive uninsured. I have zero empathy for uninsured drivers, who should receive ever more burdensome penalties and punishments with each additional instance of being discovered. It boggles my mind that a person can somehow rationalize that they alone should be relieved of any and all burden for harm to health and property their mistakes will cause, that the innocent other who is injured should bear the entire cost of the uninsured's carelessness. If you cannot afford the most basic of liability insurance then DO NOT DRIVE.
Has your buddy paid his debt? Was anyone injured? Minor collision? Cost of repairs?

you want more people to have auto insurance? if the insurance companies would return some of the unused premiums paid over the year, when there are NO marks on someone's record, you can bet a lot more people would carry it.

its no different than health insurance, paying out the ass every month, and NEVER getting ANY return on that is absolute BULLSHIT. insurance is the biggest scam there is. and its MANDATORY. what kind of bullshit is that?



I went for 10+ years with no auto insurance. I think I got stopped ONCE in that time, and ZERO accidents. who was I hurting by not paying? I had a HELL OF A LOT more of MY OWN hard earned money tho.

 

[KidVermicious]

its no different than health insurance, paying out the ass every month, and NEVER getting ANY return on that is absolute BULLSHIT. insurance is the biggest scam there is. and its MANDATORY. what kind of bullshit is that?

Preach.

 

[MyHigh]

^^^^

Sounds like affordable health care......:help:

 

[BigNuge]

Sounds like affordable health care......:help:

There is no such thing in this country. If we are forced to give it away to half the country (and all illeagals) then the rest who are left to pay will never have anything affordable....plain and simple.

 

[Brique]

Insurance is a transfer of risk. You're trading the chance of a catastrophic loss that you can't afford for a guaranteed loss every month. If you don't suffer a loss in a given month, you still received the service of risk transfer. There are plans that offer return of premium on some Insurance types, but the cost of that feature is also built into the additional premium you pay for it.

My wife and i had a plan we were happy with, which is ending, courtesy of the unaffordable care act. Our premium on our existing plan shot up as a direct result of the uca, and when we're forced to switch to another plan in January, the closest thing to what we have now will give us less coverage.

The increase in premium after passage of the uca is directly attributable to two primary things: you're being forced to pay for additional coverages you don't necessarily need/want, and the fact that you're now picking up the tab for a portion of someone else's premium. A good chunk of that $1000/per month is subsidizing someone else, creating the illusion that the obamacare magic got the actual cost of their insurance down, when in fact they're actually recieving disguised welfare (which in many cases they don't even know that's what's happening).

 

[lelandr]

not a chance. insurance is THE reason medical bills are so high. they charge it because they CAN.

almost always cash pay is cheaper than what is billed to the insurance.

also, there is no way an overnight stay in the hospital is worth $10k, but that is what they charge for JUST the use of the room. horseshit. actual expense my ass.

I read through all of our bills. Or insurance company negotiates very low rates. The bill is huge, but in the end, I don't pay much & neither does the insurance company.

Sorry to say, but insurance rates are high because of people who, like me, work for big companies. I get high-end insurance mostly paid by the company as a tax-free paid benefit. Additionally, the company receives a huge tax benefit for providing it. Now, we don't go to the doctor often at all, even our son only gets the routine checkups. However, many people in my situation go to the doctor at anything. Sniffle. Doctor. At a $25 copay. The problem comes from the 3rd party payer system. Why does someone care about the cost of procedures when someone else foots the bill? Just like the government.

I am a huge beneficiary of this system, but I realize that the system needs to be put out of the hands of companies. The gov't should dump the tax benefits (which along with the mortgage interest deduction is one of the ways that they leave huge amounts of tax revenue on the table) and let the health insurance industry become life car insurance. Nothing better than competition. Plus life car insurance, the end user should have some incentive to find ways to reduce the costs.

 

[lelandr]

This is different. Driving puts others at risk. Lack of health insurance puts only oneself at risk.

Well, except when the rest of us have to foot the bill for someone who doesn't have health insurance. What is different is that to drive, someone has to put up money on the front end & has something of tangible value. If you're in the emergency room due to a serious accident, the doctor & facility have no idea if you have the means to pay. Ever. This would only work if any doctor could refuse service at any time due to an inability to pay. America's kind of a civilized country where we try not let people croak just because they're poor & had an accident.

 

[BigNuge]

Well, except when the rest of us have to foot the bill for someone who doesn't have health insurance. What is different is that to drive, someone has to put up money on the fruit end & has something of tangible value. If you're in the emergency room due to a serious accident, the doctor & facility have no idea if you have the means to pay. Ever. This would only work if any doctor Fouke refuse service at any time due to an inability to pay. America's kind of a civilized country where we try not let people croak just because they're poor & had an accident.

The problems with healthcare aren't from self pay people making efforts to pay out of pocket for care, even large ticket care.

It is, and always will be, the dead poor and career welfare dirtbag leaches. They get it all for free (housing, food, primary & secondary education, Childcare...the list goes on), shit out 3-6 kids each, go to the doctor for EVERYTHING because they feel they have the right...and could not give less of a f*ck about saddling the rest of the us with the bill.

Do not confuse those two scenarios.