Thoughts on 2010 model

[V8 AWD 4EVR]

Hi all, been enjoying the 2010 4Runner news on this forum for last couple months.

In 2003 I bought a V8 4Runner, and waited to get one until the V8 with full-time 4wd and no black fender cladding was available. I would not have purchased a V6 model 4Runner.

I use my truck pretty hard, not rock crawling much, but back road travel, fishing, hunting, skiing, snowshoeing, hiking, exploring, etc. I am pretty active and doing something at least every other weekend. It has been the perfect vehicle for snow, road trips, off-road, and daily driving. It has great power to pull, pass, and cruise the interstates.

Like many of you, I am frustrated by Toyota taking what was to me a perfect vehicle and eliminating the v8 option and forcing poorly thought out options packages on us, instead of upgrading the great platform they had and changing the sheet metal. No more v8 (yes I know the 2010 has a more powerful v6 than my 2003 v8, but I wanted a more powerful 2010 v8, thanks - like 350 hp/375 torque). the loss of the AWD and locking center diff on Sport or SR5 models, and Then the further insult of 20 inch wheels on the Limited. KDSS forces a crappy navigation system which we all know is no where near as good as my iPhone's free navigation. Arrrggghhhh. It's not that hard to figure out.

I think one of two things happened.

1) Toyota decided that they were selling a Landcruiser for 35K, which was killing the LC market. I think there is a strong chance this is a serious factor, if you look at the 2003 v8 4Runner, it was basically a 2003 LC with different exterior and interior look. My understanding is it has same motor and AWD system as 2003 LC. An extra 35K for lots of headroom is not a good buy! I believe most LC's are just larger and with some extra electoronic do0-dads, but don't offer anything more (unlike say the Mercedes G-Wagon with AWD and 3 locking differentials!!)

and/or

2) Toyota does not really understand the 4Runner market. You do not buy a new vehicle for 35K and go rock crawling. Very few people will do that until the truck is 5 years old or more and they have a second vehicle. What people really do with 4Runners is tow smaller boats like 16 foot outboards, drift boats, rafts, motorcycles, etc. and do other active outdoor activities in mud and snow. The full-time v8 AWD is so superior to any other car or truck I have owned I don't see why I would want to go backwards.

I also get an average of 19 MPG, and around town it is closer to 17 and on a long highway drive it is about 21. That is pretty good mileage for a v8 SUV from 2003.

*** One last thing, the whole navigation system issue is pretty outrageous. They want $2,000 bucks for this system they are forcing on you, when we all know you would be way better off with an iPhone and 2 years of ATT service for about the same $2,000.00, plus you would get 75,000 apps and a cell phone for free. In dash navigation systems make no sense and I bet they just had a warehouse full of them then needed to dump so thats why you can't say no to navigation. Rant off.

 

[JohnsD90]

The full-time v8 AWD is so superior to any other car or truck I have owned I don't see why I would want to go backwards.

Try a 93-97 North American Spec Land rover Defender, V8 center diff, full time 4 wheel drive and a 60 year legacy. And the G-wagon has a really powerfull V8 and AWD, 4runner V8 isnt the best.

 

[ToyTech99]

*** One last thing, the whole navigation system issue is pretty outrageous. They want $2,000 bucks for this system they are forcing on you, when we all know you would be way better off with an iPhone and 2 years of ATT service for about the same $2,000.00, plus you would get 75,000 apps and a cell phone for free. In dash navigation systems make no sense and I bet they just had a warehouse full of them then needed to dump so thats why you can't say no to navigation. Rant off.

Gotta disagree with you on the navigation comments. The in-dash factory system is superior for many reasons. You just can't beat the integration into the vehicle and the much larger display screen. Who wants to look at a tiny iPhone screen to view the maps and other navigation info? I'd pay $3000 for the facory navi or even an in-dash aftermarket unit before I'd even consider using either an iPhone or even a portable navigation system like a Tom Tom or Garmin.

 

[ToyTech99]

Try a 93-97 North American Spec Land rover Defender, V8 center diff, full time 4 wheel drive and a 60 year legacy. And the G-wagon has a really powerfull V8 and AWD, 4runner V8 isnt the best.

Or he could always look at the Jeep Grand Cherokee or Jeep Commander. Both come with two different available V8 engines and excellent QDII 4wd systems.

 

[V8 AWD 4EVR]

Gee guys, I didn't say it was the best V8 4 wheel drive ever made at any price or in any time context. I just said it was vastly better than anything else I have owned or driven.

It is silly to compare 70K or 120K vehicles to a 35K vehicle.

Buy what you want, I am probably going to get a Ford Raptor instead of a new 4Runner.

M

 

[JB.]

1) Toyota decided that they were selling a Landcruiser for 35K, which was killing the LC market. I think there is a strong chance this is a serious factor, if you look at the 2003 v8 4Runner, it was basically a 2003 LC with different exterior and interior look. My understanding is it has same motor and AWD system as 2003 LC.

Interestingly, even LC didn't have the Torsen center diff at that time, which only strengthens your point.

 

[arouth]

Gotta disagree with you on the navigation comments. The in-dash factory system is superior for many reasons. You just can't beat the integration into the vehicle and the much larger display screen. Who wants to look at a tiny iPhone screen to view the maps and other navigation info? I'd pay $3000 for the facory navi or even an in-dash aftermarket unit before I'd even consider using either an iPhone or even a portable navigation system like a Tom Tom or Garmin.

I've had 2 vehicles with factory navigation and they both left a lot to be desired. One disabled the nav functions after you started going like 2 mph, and the other had a horrible search function. I would type in Burger King and get a location 2000 miles away!

I'm using a portable garmin right now that I had hard wired into my car. Works great, and the smaller size does not bother me.

 

[ToyTech99]

I've had 2 vehicles with factory navigation and they both left a lot to be desired. One disabled the nav functions after you started going like 2 mph, and the other had a horrible search function. I would type in Burger King and get a location 2000 miles away!

I'm using a portable garmin right now that I had hard wired into my car. Works great, and the smaller size does not bother me.

Yeah, most factory navigation systems do disable a lot of the functions once you're in motion. There are ways around that though, to make them 100% usable while in motion.

As far as getting a Burger King location 2000 miles away, well, that's just user error. You need to learn how to search locally instead of all over the nation. Every factory navigation system has a way to search locally and not get results from far away. I've owned and/or used OEM navi on Acuras, Toyo/Lexus, BMW, MB, Land Rover, and even GM vehicles and they all can do it if you just search properly.

 

[Thai]

Buy what you want, I am probably going to get a Ford Raptor instead of a new 4Runner.

M

Does the Raptor have full-time 4wd?? I thought that it has part-time system too.

 

[Thai]

Gotta disagree with you on the navigation comments. The in-dash factory system is superior for many reasons. You just can't beat the integration into the vehicle and the much larger display screen. Who wants to look at a tiny iPhone screen to view the maps and other navigation info? I'd pay $3000 for the facory navi or even an in-dash aftermarket unit before I'd even consider using either an iPhone or even a portable navigation system like a Tom Tom or Garmin.

I currently have two NAVI systems. One is the one in my Sienna...OEM NAVI. The other is a Garmin NUVI 775 (top of the line). The OEM NAVI is superior in its computation skills and finding POIs much quicker...a million times quicker. The OEM NAVI also catches onto satellite signals instantly, while the NUVI can take up to several minutes (once, it took 15 min!!).

However, the NUVI is easier to update the maps...and a lot cheaper! I bought LIFETIME updates for $94 from Amazon. With the OEM NAVI, the update DVDs run around $200-300 easily. Both systems uses NAVITEQ maps. Additonal benefit of NUVI is that it says street names and is portable.

If i had to spend on one system, then i would pick OEM NAVI...but since i have both, i can eat my cake too!

Or he could always look at the Jeep Grand Cherokee or Jeep Commander. Both come with two different available V8 engines and excellent QDII 4wd systems.

Excellent QDII? Not sure if many people share that opinion. Off-road, it ain't very good.

 

[arouth]

Yeah, most factory navigation systems do disable a lot of the functions once you're in motion. There are ways around that though, to make them 100% usable while in motion.

As far as getting a Burger King location 2000 miles away, well, that's just user error. You need to learn how to search locally instead of all over the nation.

Actually, it wasn't user error. In the TL I had it was a known issue. Really really annoying. You could go deep into the search functions, but it did not always work and was a pain in the ass when driving. One thing I like about the garmin is that I'll just put a name in and it will find the closest place.

Does Toyota's lock out while driving and can you disable it?

 

[PredBlue]

Not sure the best place to post this, but I guess this thread will work.

My partial email to Toyota lamenting the backwards steps for the new 4Runner:

.....Toyota's decision to eliminate the current lockable Torsen center differential and replace it with a part-time 4WD system (SR5 and TE trim levels, full-time 4WD in Limited only) means that the 4Runner has a taken a monumental step backwards in drive line functionality and capability---back 10 years to when the 3rd Gen 4Runner first had this introduced....

.....Toyota's decision to go backwards in time and eliminate the Torsen center differential 4WD system has 100% guaranteed that the new 4Runner will not be considered as we look for a new mid-size SUV. The loss of this critical functionality and flexibility of the 4WD system as outlined above renders the 5th Gen completely useless to not only my needs, but to almost every other potential buyer I have talked to......I would encourage Toyota to check out the various new vehicle review sites and owner's websites to see the overwhelming disappointment with the changes to the 4WD system that will result in lower sales.

Toyota's partial response:


.....We are very sorry to hear of your dissatisfaction with the absence of a Torsen center differential on the lower model grades of the 2010 4Runner

We make every effort to manufacture a quality, appealing product by researching, testing, and constantly monitoring performance and conducting market research. Consumer opinion and perception also play an active role in our ongoing efforts to lead the automobile industry in quality, innovation, styling, and reliability.

We appreciate your feedback. It is through communications such as yours that we become aware of the reactions and expectations of our customers and consumers and are able to review and improve our products.

We are sorry if the lower model grades do not meet your current vehicle needs and will force you to defect from the brand.....



I'm only sharing the portions of what was a much longer email were I cited the various advantages and real world experiences of the 4th gen setup, my overall satisfaction with our current 4Runner as well as some other more detailed thoughts about the 5th Gen redesign as we've all discussed. Likewise, I only copied the relevant response. I'm sharing with you what is the total deal breaker (loss of the Torsen CD), since outside of the loss of the v-8 and style, this seems to be the biggest concern with the redesign.

Surprised I actually got a response, and even more surprised that the response actually addressed my concerns (in the full email). I would have predicted either no response, a general form letter, or Toyota trying to up-sell me into something else. Hey, at least they didn't tell me to stick it!!

 

[Co.Ag.2005]

Excellent QDII? Not sure if many people share that opinion. Off-road, it ain't very good.

I agree. My buddy at worked just traded his Grand Cherokee in for a 2006 V8 T4R SE because of the awful "4WD" that came with the Jeep. Now that he has his T4R, he is not looking back!

Good 4WD is def needed in Colorado!

 

[Thai]

One thing I like about the garmin is that I'll just put a name in and it will find the closest place.

Does Toyota's lock out while driving and can you disable it?

OMG, the POI's on the garmin is pain in the butt to use!! It searches for many minutes only to come up with a limited list! POI's on my Sienna's NAVI is far superior and the search engine is super fast!

My Sienna's NAVI does have a lockout when moving...and i am sure that there is a way to disable it somewhere on the net, BUT i have never really cared to look it up because i am OK with the lockout. It just gives me a chance to slow down my day and stop and smell the flowers. People make a big deal of this...and it is usually from people who are Honda owners or from people with Garmins! (BTW, i have a garmin too...so, don't flame me!)

 

[ToyTech99]

Actually, it wasn't user error. In the TL I had it was a known issue. Really really annoying. You could go deep into the search functions, but it did not always work and was a pain in the ass when driving. One thing I like about the garmin is that I'll just put a name in and it will find the closest place.

Does Toyota's lock out while driving and can you disable it?

My mother has a TL with factory navi. Her system never had that issue. You can sort the destinations by closest to your current location. Did you ever try that?

Yes, Toyota's navi locks most navigation fucntions while driving. But it can be overridden. The earlier units can be overridden by pressing a series of "hidden" buttons on the touchscreen. The later units can be "lockpicked" if you want to override them. Or of course most navi systems are coming out now with voice controls that allow you to do anything while in motion. Personally, I have an Eclipse 6620 (nearly the same exact unit as the OEM Toyota) and it allows full control at all times by grounding the parking brake wire.

 

[Thai]

Or of course most navi systems are coming out now with voice controls that allow you to do anything while in motion.

Pure useless for me...i guess that my FOB ("fresh of the boat") accent is just too much!

 

[V8 AWD 4EVR]

Thai, no the Raptor is not full time 4WD, but it has other upgraded off-road capabilities (not really a rock crawler, more of a rough country desert off-road truck).

If I have to give up AWD, I might as well get a V8 and the other Raptor goodies. It costs about the same as a Limited 4Runner 2010.

M

 

[hrudu]

I use my truck pretty hard, not rock crawling much, but back road travel, fishing, hunting, skiing, snowshoeing, hiking, exploring, etc. I am pretty active and doing something at least every other weekend. It has been the perfect vehicle for snow, road trips, off-road, and daily driving. It has great power to pull, pass, and cruise the interstates.

The V6 is more than adequate for what you do!!!

 

[Thai]

Thai, no the Raptor is not full time 4WD, but it has other upgraded off-road capabilities (not really a rock crawler, more of a rough country desert off-road truck).

If I have to give up AWD, I might as well get a V8 and the other Raptor goodies. It costs about the same as a Limited 4Runner 2010.

M

I see...well, the Raptor looks like a great truck!! I am having more faith in Ford products of late...quality stuff.

 

[ToyTech99]

Pure useless for me...i guess that my FOB ("fresh of the boat") accent is just too much!

You might want to give the newest generation units another try. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. My buddy just picked up a new Acura MDX with factory navigation and we were playing around with it the other day trying to make it not understand our commands by using various accents. I was simply amazed at how hard it was to make it mess up. We tried everything from a Boston accent, to a strong southern drawl and it seemed to work equally well the whole time. Now I have to admit that we didn't try any type of Asian accents, so I can't say anything about that, but still, the system was very receptive to accents in general.