Throttle body spacer and cold air intake for high altitude usage

tnine

New member
Hey guys,
First, I have minimal mechanical knowledge. I can work on my own suspension, change fluids, etc. However, when it comes to engine and transmission modifications, I don't have a lot of knowledge and could use some help.

I've read several posts that cold air intakes are a gimmick, since the ECM regulates the flow of the air/fuel mixture.

I live in Denver, and I off road in the mountains, usually at 10,000 + feet. At higher altitudes, there is a noticeable lack of power from my 4Runner.

Would a cold air intake, coupled with a throttle body spacer make any difference? Or, will I still be limited by the ECM?

I'm on the fence of doing that vs a turbocharger or a supercharger. My wife has a turbo Forrester, and it performs really well at altitude. However, I'm concerned with the engine wear on my 4runner if I were to add a turbocharger or supercharger. I want my rig to last for at least 10 years.

Thoughts?
 
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I would like to know too. I was thinking the same thing this weekend as I'm charging up Loveland Pass. I'm usually not buying into CAI's, but with this engine, I want to give it everything she can take and put out.
 
No. So called "cold air intakes" and throttle body spacers are snake oil. Modern motors are way too efficient for those things to do anything but harm performance, at any altitude.
 
Cold Air Intakes are not gimmicks. They breath cooler and denser air than old-style hot-air intakes mounted on top of the engine.

That's why your 5th gen 4Runner has a cold-air intake stock from the factory. Look under the hood; the filter is off to the side, and it sucks "cold" air from the passenger fender well instead of heated air from inside the engine compartment. Every vehicle I've owned since my old 1996 T-Bird had a factory CAI. An aftermarket CAI may provide a more "open" intake channel, but that only affects power at wide-open throttle. Any other time the air flow is controlled by valves closer to the engine.

Throttle-body spacers only work with carbureted or older fuel injection systems. They provide more space for fuel-air mixing. A TBS does not give any benefits with modern multi-port fuel injection systems like that on the 4Runner, so snake oil.


The only known way to get a normal-use power boost of of the 5th Gen 4Runner is to replace the exhaust system with a more free-flow version (URD Y-pipe, catback exhaust, etc.). An aftermarket free-flow CAI may give a tiny boost during WOT acceleration.
 
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The "CAI" that I have been debating about is the TRD version. I also thought about the TRD cat-back as well. But then again...that is a bunch of money for a few HP and a handful LB-FT that may or may not be noticeable.
 
Hey guys,

I'm on the fence of doing that vs a turbocharger or a supercharger. My wife has a turbo Forrester, and it performs really well at altitude. However, I'm concerned with the engine wear on my 4runner if I were to add a turbocharger or supercharger. I want my rig to last for at least 10 years.

Thoughts?

Same boat here. GF has a '16 Forester XT and it will handily outrun me up I-70 unless I keep the throttle completely floored. The forester, meanwhile, is loafing along at 2,500 RPM or less most of the time.

I don't think there's much you can do unless you want to roll the dice on a URD S/C... if it is ever released.
 
So a follow up question. How do I increase my highway speed power? I'm not concerned with < 50 mph or 4 wheeling in 4x4 low. I have more than enough power necessary at those speeds.

I'll also be towing a small trailer with 2 ATVs, so more highway speed power would be great.

Has anyone modified the ECM and had a successful result?
 
So a follow up question. How do I increase my highway speed power? I'm not concerned with < 50 mph or 4 wheeling in 4x4 low. I have more than enough power necessary at those speeds.

I'll also be towing a small trailer with 2 ATVs, so more highway speed power would be great.

Has anyone modified the ECM and had a successful result?
You could get a supercharger, a GX460, a Tundra, or a Land Cruiser. A supercharged Land Cruiser would be ideal, or course.

Unfortunately the altitude here in Colorado significantly reduces the power of NA engines, about 3% per 1000 feet above sea level. By the time you get to 10,000 feet that's a lot less power. There's not much you can do about it because the air is thinner, and the engine can only suck in so much air. It's well designed from the factory, so there are no simple mods that will get more air in. The computer maintains an ideal air to fuel ratio in almost all conditions, so even if you modified it to dump in more fuel you would just be wasting gas not making much more power.

If you can't increase power, decreasing weight will help equally. There's not much you can easily take off to reduce weight without making major compromises. Maybe you can make the trailer lighter, or leave some passengers at home?

I don't think re-gearing will help because what you need is closer ratios between gears, not different overall gearing. For example, my last car was an 8th gen Civic, and climbing any mountain passes in Colorado I couldn't exceed 65mph because that's where it would shift from 2nd to 3rd. At that speed it was below the power band in 3rd, so it could no longer accelerate. That is with the gas to the floor the whole way up. Hypothetically if 3rd was closer to 2nd the engine would be turning a bit faster when it shifts, and it could continue to accelerate. I don't think the typical re-gearing where you change the final drive ratio in the diff would help much in that case (if it is even possible in a Civic since I think the transmission and diff are integrated).
 
Has anyone modified the ECM and had a successful result?

If you figure that one out somehow, you can certainly make a killing around here.

Seems to be where everyone got stuck with the whole forced induction dream for a 5th gen.
 
the engine is designed for a 14.7 to 1 air to fuel ratio. so when you go higher less air then the PCM reduces the fuel injector on time to keep the fuel trims close to zero .

adding fuel will not help for getting more power . if you could add more air then it would increase power the PCM would then add more fuel to keep the ratio 14.7 to 1 more air more fuel more power .

years ago I had an engine that was tough to tow 4K lbs boat. I changed the air intake from OEM to a ram air that I designed . it worked on towing .. did not do much with no load .
 
So a follow up question. How do I increase my highway speed power? I'm not concerned with < 50 mph or 4 wheeling in 4x4 low. I have more than enough power necessary at those speeds.

I'll also be towing a small trailer with 2 ATVs, so more highway speed power would be great.

Has anyone modified the ECM and had a successful result?

Being realistic:

There is no supercharger for this motor.

There is no easy turbo adder.

The vehicle already has a cold air intake. There is no colder air intake.


Solutions:

Shed unnecessary weight

Smaller diameter tires

Regear for added torque

Trade for something with more power


That's all you can do realistically. There are thousands of 4runner in Colorado. Most of them are pretty happy with them. Did you not test drive?
 
I don't think re-gearing will help because what you need is closer ratios between gears, not different overall gearing.


It would definitely make a HUGE difference if re-gearing! Same change could be made by going with much smaller diameter tires (45 series vs. a 75 series tire).

When re-gearing, shorter gears will give you more torque at the expense of top-end speed.

So, basically, a shorter gear, like going from 3.73 gears to a 4.10 gear set (just as an example and not a specific ratio for a 5th gen) will allow more work from the engine to be applied to the same final turn of the wheels. Instead of 3.73 rotations of the engine to produce 1 turn of the axle, it can now use 4.10 rotations to turn the axle the same, single revolution. More torque, less top end.

So long as you're not trying to drive at 90+ mph all the time, this would help greatly with high altitudes and inclinations while driving over the passes.
 
Your wifes Subaru weighs a shitload less than your 4Runner. Math.

My girlfriends Edge Sport with twin turbos and 315 HP will smoke my ass all day long going up Floyd Hill but ironically if we hit Tincup Pass and rocks and such the tables turn. ;-)

The 4Runner is a (fairly) large, heavy SUV. Just stay in the middle lane and enjoy the beautiful Colorado scenery.

I've had cars that will do 120 MPH all day long UP Floyd Hill but they weren't worth a shit when I wanted to hit the dirt road less traveled. ;-)
 
I will try to provide some helpful information that is gleaned from a combination of personal experience gained in my past career working with an automotive engineering firm, building multiple 800whp cars and personal high performance car. Along with a massive amount of time spent researching online and in books to satisfy my automotive obsession.

Anyone who tells you that they are snake-oil or don't make a difference is way over simplifying and in 90% of the cases wrong. They do make a difference and they can add power. Every engine and vehicle will respond differently and the design of the intake will make a difference. This is not rocket science, an engine is an air pump plain and simple. Fuel is never the problem, adding more fuel is easy, it is getting more air into the engine that is the key to power. Every engine responds differently to different air/fuel ratios and different ignition timing but simply speaking adding air means additional fuel, means increased mixture density in the cylinder, means more power. The poster (catrains) above is right that the ECU is targeting a specific A/F ratio, he is not quite right that it is usually 14.7:1, that 14.7:1 is what is known as stoichiometric and is the ratio of air to gasoline that fully burns the fuel in the mixture. That ratio is rarely the ratio that produces the most power under full throttle, if you were to dyno a 4Runner I would bet that Toyota has it running somewhere between 13 and 14. Cars run A/F ratios all over the map under difference scenarios to produce the best combination of power, economy and emissions. Depending on the car you have it is most likely using a mass airflow sensor (MAF) to measure the "mass" of the air moving into the engine or a manifold pressure (MAP) sensor and air intake temperature sensor (AIT) to measure the air density and volume moving into the engine to determine how much fuel to add.

So, if we come back to the air pump concept we can think our way through this. The engine itself (no intake, no exhaust) has a theoretical maximum amount of air that it can flow or pump. Now, put that engine in a car, add an exhaust with a catalytic converter, long sections of piping that bends and winds, mufflers to control noise, an intake that has been tuned to filter out unwanted noise with baffles and resonation chambers, a filter to catch dust and provide a specified service interval, corrugated tubing to flex and cut down on costs. Well now you have taken that engine and reduced the amount of air that it can pump. Take that car and run it on a 110 deg. day and you also reduce its efficiency because hotter air is less dense than cold air. Take it to the top of a mountain and you have done the same thing but to a much greater extent.

Now we see how improving the efficiency or reducing the restriction in any of these components can increase power. With the "cold air intake" you are increasing the efficiency of the air intake tract. This is done typically with a smoother intake pipe that removes the resonation chambers and corrugation and a higher flow air filter that reduces the restriction provided by the OEM filter. Now, the once caveat here comes from the air temperature and density issue that I mentioned before. If the factory intake system is taking its air from a duct or area that is providing fresh, cool air to the engine and you replace that with a cone filter that sits in the hot cabin air you may have installed a less restrictive system but are now hindering its effectiveness by removing the cool air component. For the 5th gen 4Runners the TRD and AFE intake systems draw the same cool air as the factory airbox but have higher flowing filters and ducting and will increase power. It may not be 25hp like you can see on some turbocharged vehicles but you will pick up some gains, especially under full throttle. The removal of the resonation chambers will provide increased induction noise which is also desirable for many people.

The throttle spacer lengthens the intake tract after the throttle which can, sometimes, provide increased low end torque. The results from these are usually suspect at best, save your money.
 
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There are no free lunches.

Even if I could get another 25hp from whatever, I don't see that making any difference driving up and down I70. I drive at least the speed limit up and down from summit county all the time, that's with an extra 350+lbs of steel bolted to it.
 
[MENTION=138742]Colorado S14[/MENTION]

That's all true, but the 4Runners have had factory intake inlets that pull from the passenger fender for both 4th and 5th generation units. The majority of CAIs just exchange the intake box and usually do not pull from the factory location.

Also I have yet to see throttle body spacers do much of anything on modern OBDII vehicles.
 
The 4runner engine produces more power just like very other ICE. More air = more power. The 4runner does it by spinning the internals faster to process more air rather than use a turbo to pump in more air. A 2.0L turbo is pretty similar to a 4.0L N/A engine. An IS350 is a dead heat with a 2.0L STI for example. But the IS350 is a more reliable engine. The Subaru is more tunable. Is that better or worse? I can't argue either way. I've had both and both are fun. I had a Mitsu 3SI not an STI, but they're similar. I would not want to own a turbo engine as my only car. I don't like riding the bus. The GR will produce 300hp for many many more continuous hours than the 2.0L turbo will. Higher RPMs are not inherently a death nail for an engine.

There's not really any meaningful way to add power to the GR. Basically you need higher rpms. It's not likely that this will satisfy many of us. At 9k rpms I'm sure we could push 450hp, but it wouldn't be useful.

The biggest issue I find is that the gearing isn't well matched to keep the 1GR in it's correct power band at higher highway speeds. The engine hp grows roughly linearly with rpms (slightly less because volumetric efficiency goes down with greater rpms.) At highway speed wind resistance grows exponentially with speed. So... engine rpms that are well matched to provide adequate power at 75mph may not be well suited for 85 or 90mph. - this is where a turbo can help by varying power independently of rpm, so gearing is less critical to match. Anyway, my opinion is that with stock tires size the 4runner was perfect at 75mph and marginal at 90.

With 285s it's not well geared to produce enough power to equal wind resistance at 80-90mph. Lower diff gears would go a long way. A 6th gear would let us run lower gears without sacrificing the final gearing on flat ground. The highlander for example has a very similar engine with 4.30 gears adn a 6speed. Unfortunately we don't have any options between 3.73 and 4.56. That's a huge jump. 4.10 gears would be just right imo.
 
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What [MENTION=138742]Colorado S14[/MENTION] said is 100% true... at wide open throttle. A less restrictive air box (remove sound baffles, conical filter with more surface area, less dense filter media, etc.) will provide more air at WOT and therefore more power. You'll notice this when passing or racing. This would be useful with his "800whp cars and personal high performance car".

But my understanding is the OP specifically didn't want to run at WOT all the time. He wanted sufficient extra power to mash the pedal halfway and cruise along at 80. IMHO, at lower speeds opening up the air box won't make a noticeable difference in normal cruising power. But I could be wrong.
 
My solution to driving in the Colorado high country: Put 4Runner into S mode and select the proper gear before you hit a big hill. Problem solved. If there were a way to quickly get an extra 30hp out of the Runner, 90% of us would have done it already.
 
[MENTION=138742]Colorado S14[/MENTION]

That's all true, but the 4Runners have had factory intake inlets that pull from the passenger fender for both 4th and 5th generation units. The majority of CAIs just exchange the intake box and usually do not pull from the factory location.

Also I have yet to see throttle body spacers do much of anything on modern OBDII vehicles.

Yea I mentioned that, for this reason the TRD and the AFE are the only ones that I would run as they pull in cool fender air just like the OEM system.
 

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