Throttle sensitivity issues

pipspeak

Member
During a recent 1500 mile road trip I got increasingly annoyed with the tiny bit of lag in the throttle of my 2004 SE and wondered if it's normal (the lag, not getting annoyed).

My last car - a jeep - had an amazingly sensitive and light-feeling gas pedal that you could easily blip the engine with. Tap it and you take off. The 4Runner's gas pedal by comparison is like a slug. At a green light I hit the gas and there's a brief lag before I surge off the line. At speed on the freeway I press the pedal harder to pass and it still takes a while for the damn car to accelerate.

To get decent freeway acceleration I seemingly have to stomp on the gas, which throws the tranny into a tizzy. To accelerate at low speed I also have to stomp a bit, which results in downshift and surge. I'm not an aggressive driver but just cannot seem to make fine adjustments to speed quickly, as is often necessary in city driving. It seems to be a choice between surging or barely accelerating at all, and all with a half-second lag.

Is this lag and lack of overall throttle sensitivity a typical feature of the electronic throttle control? Is it a Toyota thing? Or is it a "me" thing?!
 
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pipspeak said:
During a recent 1500 mile road trip I got increasingly annoyed with the tiny bit of lag in the throttle of my 2004 SE and wondered if it's normal (the lag, not getting annoyed).

My last car - a jeep - had an amazingly sensitive and light-feeling gas pedal that you could easily blip the engine with. Tap it and you take off. The 4Runner's gas pedal by comparison is like a slug. At a green light I hit the gas and there's a brief lag before I surge off the line. At speed on the freeway I press the pedal harder to pass and it still takes a while for the damn car to accelerate.

To get decent freeway acceleration I seemingly have to stomp on the gas, which throws the tranny into a tizzy. To accelerate at low speed I also have to stomp a bit, which results in downshift and surge. I'm not an aggressive driver but just cannot seem to make fine adjustments to speed quickly, as is often necessary in city driving. It seems to be a choice between surging or barely accelerating at all, and all with a half-second lag.

Is this lag and lack of overall throttle sensitivity a typical feature of the electronic throttle control? Is it a Toyota thing? Or is it a "me" thing?!
I think a little bit of the lag is associated with the electronics, and a little bit is associated with your head. :) Since its not a direct mechanical connection there is going to be a small delay while the TPS (throttle position sensor) input is fed into a CPU and processed with the other inputs, then the signal is output to the throttle servo. To increase response on the highway while passing try manually downshifting to 4th before nailing it, then all you have to wait for is the downshift to 3rd for the real power to come on, rather than waiting for the 5-4-3 downshift, which to me, is annoying.

A couple things that could be done here are simple fixes that are all software related. Toyota could make the throttle servo more responsive to low rpm inputs; maybe the same response as high rpm input, which to me, seems better. Also, they could get rid of that hideous 5-4-3 downshift which, when passing on a two lane road, seems like an eternity. What's wrong with the good ol' 5-3 downshift? I bet 3rd would come in like a sledgehammer if the tranny was programmed to bypass 4th at certain throttle positions, speeds, grades, etc.
 
pipspeak said:
During a recent 1500 mile road trip I got increasingly annoyed with the tiny bit of lag in the throttle of my 2004 SE and wondered if it's normal (the lag, not getting annoyed).

Is this lag and lack of overall throttle sensitivity a typical feature of the electronic throttle control? Is it a Toyota thing? Or is it a "me" thing?!

It's not you, it's mostly Toyota. To me it seems the transmission's control algorithm has been so fluffed up with nifty features and self preservation code, that it has become way too plump for the processor to handle in a reasonable amount of time. I've heard complaints from 4Runner, Camry, and Tundra owners about how wacky their transmissions are at times. It's just something we have to live with...
 
Glad it's not all me. :)

My options seem to be to either lurch around the roads like a madman if I get impatient and punch the gas too hard, or drive like a granny as I gently push the gas and wait for some response.

It's definitely a low-RPM issue, and unfortunately the tranny likes to try and keep things under 2000 RPM even driving around town, which is annoying. I guess I'll use 2 or 3 if I'm not going to go above 40mph, and as long as I don't end up burning too much gas.
 
That's funny you mentioned that. I also went from a jeep and one of the good things about it was the instant throttle response. I guess that's another one of the "quirks" about 4Runner. When I know I'm going to have to merge into another lane or heavy traffic, I just have to give myself enough room to do it, knowing there's going to be lag time.
 
Make that another former Jeep owner who has noticed this as well. I had to smile about the comment earlier about passing on a two lane road. I did that the first time with the 4R and I almost paniced when I went out and hit the gas, that delay was crazy. I guess it will get some getting used to.

The brakes sure are tight as well, they are brand new of course, but I just about launched my dog through the windshield the first time I had to really hit them.
 
Any/all of the Toyotas with drive by wire have that delay....I found it annoying at first, but it's fairly easy to drive around.

In manual transmission cars equipped as such, it's even more noticeable; you really have to pre-plan it if you want a throttle blip to match revs on a downshift.

You'd think with the computer systems of today a quicker reacting system would be possible. Maybe a smoother/delayed opening/closing of the throttle is better for emissions than quick snaps open and closed. Regardless, I wish it was more direct with what's going on at your foot.
 
BuckyBadger said:
The brakes sure are tight as well, they are brand new of course, but I just about launched my dog through the windshield the first time I had to really hit them.
The brakes definitely take some getting used to, especially in traffic and when the engine is cold and in "here's your 330 ft-lbs of torque at idle" mode. That being said, the brakes on the SE's are among the best I've ever driven, car or not. They are simply amazing for SUV brakes.

4 piston calipers with 13+ inch rotors is sports car territory and our 70-0 braking is on par with sport sedans like the S4. When I test drove my Runner for the first time I was heading down a two-lane backroad going about 70 when I decided to nail the brakes without warning. I almost put my girlfriend's forhead right in the dash, and she had her seatbelt on!! Based on Car and Driver's most recent test of the 4Runner (April 2005: Rock Climbing SUV's size M) the 4Runner (a 2005 SE V8) stopped from 70-0 in 170 feet, an alarming 20 feet shorter than its nearest competitor!! The brakes are simply amazing...
 
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Yeah my brakes still catch me off guard every once in a while, granted it is only my second month to have the car, but at 4000 miles I would think that I would be pretty accustomed to it.
 
BuckyBadger said:
Make that another former Jeep owner who has noticed this as well. I had to smile about the comment earlier about passing on a two lane road. I did that the first time with the 4R and I almost paniced when I went out and hit the gas, that delay was crazy. I guess it will get some getting used to.

:D Passing certainly took me some time to get used to. About half the delay seems to be the throttle and the other half seems to be the tranny calculating how to downshift itself and then doing a double downshift. Now I just downshift myself before attempting to pass, which makes life a little easier. Still not Jeep speed tho.

Seems our trucks need some more processing power... hey do you think we can just add another stick of RAM into some of the ECUs??! ;):
 
OUTRNNR said:
The brakes definitely take some getting used to, especially in traffic and when the engine is cold and in "here's your 330 ft-lbs of torque at idle" mode. That being said, the brakes on the SE's are among the best I've ever driven, car or not. They are simply amazing for SUV brakes.

4 piston calipers with 13+ inch rotors is sports car territory and our 70-0 braking is on par with sport sedans like the S4. When I test drove my Runner for the first time I was heading down a two-lane backroad going about 70 when I decided to nail the brakes without warning. I almost put my girlfriend's forhead right in the dash, and she had her seatbelt on!! Based on Car and Driver's most recent test of the 4Runner (April 2005: Rock Climbing SUV's size M) the 4Runner (a 2005 SE V8) stopped from 70-0 in 170 feet, an alarming 20 feet shorter than its nearest competitor!! The brakes are simply amazing...

:iagree: I can't understand why anyone would go aftermarket!

Koz
 
pipspeak said:
:D Passing certainly took me some time to get used to. About half the delay seems to be the throttle and the other half seems to be the tranny calculating how to downshift itself and then doing a double downshift. Now I just downshift myself before attempting to pass, which makes life a little easier. Still not Jeep speed tho.

Seems our trucks need some more processing power... hey do you think we can just add another stick of RAM into some of the ECUs??! ;):

I make sure I'm in the lowest gear (With at least 1k rpm left) before I even get the chance to pass. There are to many assholes that drag their ass until someone wants to pass, then they speed up. I don't give them the chance. When I'm on the bike I like to pass them in the air; Did I say that out loud? Bring on the flames!

Koz
 
4 speed vs 5 speed?

Is this a 5 speed transmission thing? My '04 V6 doesn't have this lag problem, and it has the 4 speed. It does seem like a dog in first, although it's a burner in second. But there's no response lag.
 
Re: 4 speed vs 5 speed?

lockerc18 said:
Is this a 5 speed transmission thing? My '04 V6 doesn't have this lag problem, and it has the 4 speed. It does seem like a dog in first, although it's a burner in second. But there's no response lag.
Possibly. It's all software though, its not like the 5 speed is a physically slower shifter than the 4 speed. Its all done for comfort, since 99% of people who drive 4Runners don't notice shift/lag time...

I don't think that its lack of computing power either. I just think the whole truck is programmed to take its time from the throttle tip-in to tranny shifting. Also, as someone eluded to earlier, I'm sure emissions plays a role in the slow response as well...
 

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