Timing cover leak = first trip to dealer

[BlackWorksInc]

Thank you. Can you tell me what a DPR is?

Dealer Product Report. The long and short of it is that it is a manual reporting process dealers use to send data to Toyota regarding patterns of issues/odd issues on newer vehicles. That way the warranty side of things can see patterns that need to be investigated and possibly made into a TSB/Recall a little sooner. At least in theory, it's also a good way to get warranty to pay for weird issues that they might fight you on. lol

 

[DaveT4RTrail2021]

Issue not solved (yet)

So it turns out the issue is not solved. The oil kept coming back to the same spot I showed in the pictures and when I showed the mechanic myself he looked into it further. He removed the condenser and alternator to see it was in fact leaking from the timing chain cover where it meets the head on the drivers side. He said it was dripping onto the drive belt as well from there.

So they ordered several gaskets and will be replacing them. He said they have a method now to do this job without removing the engine from the vehicle.

Are there any of you out there that have been through this before and do you have any advice? Im hoping its just straight forward and there will be no worries moving forward. I welcome your thoughts if you have any!

 

[wsu_runner]

So they ordered several gaskets and will be replacing them. He said they have a method now to do this job without removing the engine from the vehicle.

Not to sound negative, but the first thing I thought when reading was that Toyota has been dealing with so many warranty claims on this issue that they figured out a shortcut to cut the cost of the payments they make to the dealers for the warranty work.

Our 4th gen had the timing cover leak issue and everything we'd heard up until we sold it 2 years ago was that the engine would have to come out.

Maybe have them walk you through the steps for the old process and the new one and make sure you're satisfied? Good luck - really sucks to have to be dealing with any warranty issues so early in the ownership of your new 4runner.

 

[DaveT4RTrail2021]

Not to sound negative, but the first thing I thought when reading was that Toyota has been dealing with so many warranty claims on this issue that they figured out a shortcut to cut the cost of the payments they make to the dealers for the warranty work.

Our 4th gen had the timing cover leak issue and everything we'd heard up until we sold it 2 years ago was that the engine would have to come out.

Maybe have them walk you through the steps for the old process and the new one and make sure you're satisfied? Good luck - really sucks to have to be dealing with any warranty issues so early in the ownership of your new 4runner.

I agree with you. I have not read about any other methods for doing this job either. If anyone has heard of this issue being fixed without the engine coming out please let me know; otherwise I will be asking them for the details on this method they plan to use.

 

[clutchmoney]

Hate to revive an old thread but my post count is too low.

I've encountered a similar problem on my '16 trail w/ 65k km (40k miles) except the oil is leaking much faster than a weep. It's dripping multiple drops on the ground after running and started happening out of nowhere. It's not from the oil filter housing or the valve cover... the pulleys/fan are flicking the oil everywhere so it's hard to determine where the leak is. After clean up it looks like the timing cover but I don't think the oil is pressurized here for it to be leaking this fast. I've read that this could be the front camshaft seal which could make more sense...

To be honest it is driving me crazy and completely unexpected for such low mileage...

 

[Jeremy556]

Hate to revive an old thread but my post count is too low.

I've encountered a similar problem on my '16 trail w/ 65k km (40k miles) except the oil is leaking much faster than a weep. It's dripping multiple drops on the ground after running and started happening out of nowhere. It's not from the oil filter housing or the valve cover... the pulleys/fan are flicking the oil everywhere so it's hard to determine where the leak is. After clean up it looks like the timing cover but I don't think the oil is pressurized here for it to be leaking this fast. I've read that this could be the front camshaft seal which could make more sense...

To be honest it is driving me crazy and completely unexpected for such low mileage...

Probably the VVTI oil line that is in that same spot. Mine recently let go and was making a big mess, much more so than the timing cover weep. Much easier to see without the power steering pump in the way.

Here are the parts:
15772-31010 Engine Oil Cooler Line $20.72
90430-16016 Engine Oil Cooler Gasket $1.34
90430-16012 Engine Oil Cooler Gasket $1.39

 

[clutchmoney]

So I brought the car to the dealer out of frustration and they've pinpointed it to the front crankshaft seal as suspected. Absolutely insane that this is leaking this amount with 40k miles but that's a separate rant.

The dealer is recommending replacement of the seal (obviously), belt (likely spoiled by the oil - ok fair), and the actual crankshaft pulley which doesn't make sense to me. The pulley is of course expensive. Does anyone see anything wrong with just doing the belt and seal?

 

[djeepin]

... replacement of the seal (obviously), belt (likely spoiled by the oil - ok fair), and the actual crankshaft pulley which doesn't make sense to me. The pulley is of course expensive. Does anyone see anything wrong with just doing the belt and seal?

if you doing it yourself, you may get away with old pulley, if you inspected and pulley has no wear at seal contact area. but shop will either replacing all mating parts to minimize customer come back, or install old pulley, at your request, and do not give you warranty on service performed.

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

Is there any cause - effect relationship between a clogged PCV valve and the timing cover gasket being the easiest thing to blow out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Grug556]

So I brought the car to the dealer out of frustration and they've pinpointed it to the front crankshaft seal as suspected. Absolutely insane that this is leaking this amount with 40k miles but that's a separate rant.

The dealer is recommending replacement of the seal (obviously), belt (likely spoiled by the oil - ok fair), and the actual crankshaft pulley which doesn't make sense to me. The pulley is of course expensive. Does anyone see anything wrong with just doing the belt and seal?

Just a thought, but any chance the pulley itself is out of balance and the vibration caused the downstream leak of oil by the pulley? For the work of removal and all the crap, I would ditch the old pulley to be sure. Would be a shame to put it back on and have the same problem again.

 

[clutchmoney]

Just a thought, but any chance the pulley itself is out of balance and the vibration caused the downstream leak of oil by the pulley? For the work of removal and all the crap, I would ditch the old pulley to be sure. Would be a shame to put it back on and have the same problem again.

It's definitely possible. I ended up replacing all the parts - Camshaft pulley, belt, seal and the leak is gone. Definitely more than I bargained for a 4R with low mileage but I'm hoping I won't need to cross this path again down the road and now the truck is running smoothly again. Just in time for a wintery drive up north.

Also good awareness and a potential weak point for anyone with a 5th gen. Camshaft seals can leak prematurely. My 4R is likely over-maintained. I scoured the internet after finding the leak and have found at least 2-3 people that have had the same occurrence. I'm the first one that's out of warranty. FYI the OEM camshaft pulley alone is about $400USD although the job itself is not overly difficult.

 

[lpsoldia311]

It's definitely possible. I ended up replacing all the parts - Camshaft pulley, belt, seal and the leak is gone. Definitely more than I bargained for a 4R with low mileage but I'm hoping I won't need to cross this path again down the road and now the truck is running smoothly again. Just in time for a wintery drive up north.

Also good awareness and a potential weak point for anyone with a 5th gen. Camshaft seals can leak prematurely. My 4R is likely over-maintained. I scoured the internet after finding the leak and have found at least 2-3 people that have had the same occurrence. I'm the first one that's out of warranty. FYI the OEM camshaft pulley alone is about $400USD although the job itself is not overly difficult.

Is your leak still gone? Im in the same boat and posted in another similar thread, but this is where I find myself. $30 for a new crank pulley bolt w crank seal and a long day at home to replace them, or face the newly quoted $6000 to do the whole timing cover reseal since the Toyota techs can't definitively pinpoint the leak location. My crank pulley seems to always be the most saturated and coated in oil but everywhere near and around the serp belt is getting splashed or sprayed by the resulting oil mist. Already replaced my oil pressure sensor, VVTi tube, and cleaned up that problematic timing cover corner behind the PS pump to cover it more with some FIPG. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[AuSeeker]

Is your leak still gone? Im in the same boat and posted in another similar thread, but this is where I find myself. $30 for a new crank pulley bolt w crank seal and a long day at home to replace them, or face the newly quoted $6000 to do the whole timing cover reseal since the Toyota techs can't definitively pinpoint the leak location. My crank pulley seems to always be the most saturated and coated in oil but everywhere near and around the serp belt is getting splashed or sprayed by the resulting oil mist. Already replaced my oil pressure sensor, VVTi tube, and cleaned up that problematic timing cover corner behind the PS pump to cover it more with some FIPG. Any help would be appreciated.

According to his profile page he hasn't been back on the forum in over 3 years.

 

[johnnygraphic]

Just to update this much larger and older thread with my experiences and from some research I've been doing.

My 2021 TRD Off Road with 31k miles developed this same timing cover leak. It was 2 months out of warranty (60 mos). I noticed the leak while doing an oil change. My truck has been totally cared for. 1st oil change at 500 miles, 5k mile oil changes since. Here's my recent thread.
ARGH! 30k Mile Oil Leak-Front Timing Cover!

Brought it to the dealership where I bought it from and they denied the goodwill repair under warranty. Called Toyota Corp and the same answer so far. I have another appeal pending.

Apparently, the leak is happening in the same place on these engines. They are finding that the gray FIPG (form in place gasket) is not drying. Many techs are finding that the sealant is still wet when they open it up. This was based off of videos from The Car Care Nut and a few others.

The repair should be an engine out repair from what I understand. My estimate is $6,500(!).

There is a YT channel where the tech breaks down the repair to a lot of the 1GR engines as well as others, including the new Tundra debacle. Check out his channel for a lot of detailed videos.

***ETA: Apparently, the Toyota fix is to use better black FIPG vs the gray used by the factory (while also making sure the area is ultra clean).

 

[johnnygraphic]

As a bit of a remedy for this, has anyone tried the infamous AT205?

I'm thinking that at this point, it's cheaper than the work to fix it.

 

[AuSeeker]

As a bit of a remedy for this, has anyone tried the infamous AT205?

I'm thinking that at this point, it's cheaper than the work to fix it.

The AT205 will never work even if it would under normal circumstances, it's designed to soften hardened gaskets, which isn't the problem, as mentioned the problem is the gray FIPG (form in place gasket) which is basically silicone is not drying and allowing oil to seep past it.

 

[johnnygraphic]

The AT205 will never work even if it would under normal circumstances, it's designed to soften hardened gaskets, which isn't the problem, as mentioned the problem is the gray FIPG (form in place gasket) which is basically silicone is not drying and allowing oil to seep past it.

That's what I was thinking as well. Thanks for confirming.

 

[lpsoldia311]

For what it's worth to anyone else with the excessive oil leaks onto the front of the engine, I do still have a slight timing cover leak on my drivers side back behind the AC compressor & alternator but it's manageable for now compared to what I had going on. Had the dealership recheck the location of the oil leak and they confirmed it was my main front crank seal but said it wouldn't fix everything but maybe 50%. I was in a rush to get my wifes car back on the road and I'm $600 lighter in the wallet, but that fixed 99% of the main oil film, belt slinging, and drops forming everywhere along the bottom of my undercarriage. The past few test drives have been clean and dry every time I've checked. Looking back I should've just done it myself for the cost of a $20 seal but I've heard how tough it is to get that crank pulley bolt broken free so screw it, plus has a 1 yr warranty if it starts again.

Also, to anyone with the common seep/leak at the passenger side timing cover corner that's not covered under warranty and dreading that $5-7k cost it really wasn't that bad to pull and access behind the PS steering pump to attempt to seal it, maybe 3-4 hours over 2 days total.
-Pop hood to remove serp belt off the PS pump.
-Jack up that corner and remove passenger wheel and fender well flap/cover, now you've got a pretty good shot of unbolting the PS pump. Use jack stands to be safe of course.
-Unclip the 3 electrical connectors and push them towards the rear out of the way.
-Unbolt the two bolts through the pump pulley, one of long and goes all the way through, the other is short.
-Pull the pump (without disconnecting the hoses) out of the way towards the front, and you've got access to that entire leaky area directly on front of you.
-Mine was still relatively clean in that corner with mild oily dirt. It was easily accesible especially with the VVTi pipe removed, but I'd think you could access it even leaving it on there. De-grease with a spray or brakleen, wipe down, scrape/pick any solid chunks or pieces of crud.
-Once that area is completely clean and dry, use Toyota FIPG along the seams reaching out about 1-2" in all 3 directions from that corner point. Make sure it covers the entirety of the existing gray bead if you still have it showing.
-Let it sit and cure overnight, then put everything back together.

That area has luckily still been dry for me since that repair and throughout all of this, we'll see how long it lasts but I plan to do the same to the other side and remove the alternator/ compressor in order to perform the same sometime in the near future.

 

[johnnygraphic]

For what it's worth to anyone else with the excessive oil leaks onto the front of the engine, I do still have a slight timing cover leak on my drivers side back behind the AC compressor & alternator but it's manageable for now compared to what I had going on. Had the dealership recheck the location of the oil leak and they confirmed it was my main front crank seal but said it wouldn't fix everything but maybe 50%. I was in a rush to get my wifes car back on the road and I'm $600 lighter in the wallet, but that fixed 99% of the main oil film, belt slinging, and drops forming everywhere along the bottom of my undercarriage. The past few test drives have been clean and dry every time I've checked. Looking back I should've just done it myself for the cost of a $20 seal but I've heard how tough it is to get that crank pulley bolt broken free so screw it, plus has a 1 yr warranty if it starts again.

Also, to anyone with the common seep/leak at the passenger side timing cover corner that's not covered under warranty and dreading that $5-7k cost it really wasn't that bad to pull and access behind the PS steering pump to attempt to seal it, maybe 3-4 hours over 2 days total.
-Pop hood to remove serp belt off the PS pump.
-Jack up that corner and remove passenger wheel and fender well flap/cover, now you've got a pretty good shot of unbolting the PS pump. Use jack stands to be safe of course.
-Unclip the 3 electrical connectors and push them towards the rear out of the way.
-Unbolt the two bolts through the pump pulley, one of long and goes all the way through, the other is short.
-Pull the pump (without disconnecting the hoses) out of the way towards the front, and you've got access to that entire leaky area directly on front of you.
-Mine was still relatively clean in that corner with mild oily dirt. It was easily accesible especially with the VVTi pipe removed, but I'd think you could access it even leaving it on there. De-grease with a spray or brakleen, wipe down, scrape/pick any solid chunks or pieces of crud.
-Once that area is completely clean and dry, use Toyota FIPG along the seams reaching out about 1-2" in all 3 directions from that corner point. Make sure it covers the entirety of the existing gray bead if you still have it showing.
-Let it sit and cure overnight, then put everything back together.

That area has luckily still been dry for me since that repair and throughout all of this, we'll see how long it lasts but I plan to do the same to the other side and remove the alternator/ compressor in order to perform the same sometime in the near future.

Thanks for the update and the tutorial. I may have to resort to the cheap fix.

 

[johnnygraphic]

Update on my case. 2021 4Runner with 31k miles. Timing cover leak discovered at 5 years and 2 months, just a hair over the 5 year powertrain warranty.

Toyota Corp has been reduced to a fraction of it's former self, becoming truly a US corporate entity. They can only recite the corporate lines and script and cannot step outside of the box.

Needless to say, my request for goodwill has been declined. No real good reason aside from it is outside the warranty period and I had my car serviced outside of the dealership network.

ZERO accountability of a known issue. TSB's on this same engine going back to 2003.

Sad. Just sad.