Tire Pressure Too LOW? GY DuraTrac E Load

He'll pay attention to it closely if he wants his tires to wear properly and ride closest to stock.

A thicker, heavier constructed tire needs MORE air pressure to carry the same load? Um, no. This doesn't even jive with common sense, much less real world results.

Not many people here run the larger 35x12.50 and up sizes, but go over to a Jeep Wrangler forum and ask what those guys are running their tires at. NONE of them will tell you 40 psi or higher. Almost everyone is running 20-35 psi on the street with larger LT tires.

We have on many occasions seeked help from tire manufacturers and also tire distributors/vendors about the proper pressures to run in larger tires, and NEVER have they told us that a heavier duty tire or larger tire needs MORE air pressure. In fact it's just the opposite...larger tires hold more air. A higher volume of air requires less of it to hold the same load. This is science I know.. but science and common sense agree in this case.

Heavier duty and Larger are opposite factors as far as tire pressure is concerned.

Heavier duty (LT) = more pressure
Larger = less

I realize the heavy duty aspect is unintuitive (although if you think of it from a tradeoff viewpoint, it starts to make sense). Don't take my word for it. Check the primary sources in the LT tires thread.
 
He'll pay attention to it closely if he wants his tires to wear properly and ride closest to stock.

A thicker, heavier constructed tire needs MORE air pressure to carry the same load? Um, no. This doesn't even jive with common sense, much less real world results.

Not many people here run the larger 35x12.50 and up sizes, but go over to a Jeep Wrangler forum and ask what those guys are running their tires at. NONE of them will tell you 40 psi or higher. Almost everyone is running 20-35 psi on the street with larger LT tires.

We have on many occasions seeked help from tire manufacturers and also tire distributors/vendors about the proper pressures to run in larger tires, and NEVER have they told us that a heavier duty tire or larger tire needs MORE air pressure. In fact it's just the opposite...larger tires hold more air. A higher volume of air requires less of it to hold the same load. This is science I know.. but science and common sense agree in this case.

There is so much wrong here its hard to know where to start!

1st he's not running 35" tires, he's running 32" tires, so lets leave that out of the discussion for now (I'll get back to it later). I'm not going to re-post and re-quote all of [MENTION=2798]JB.[/MENTION] 's information here, I'll give a quick summary. LT tires the exact same size as a corresponding P metric tires require more inflation pressure to carry the same load. That's not a theory, it's a fact - all of the tire manufacturer's will supply you with information on load - look at the load rating/inflation pressure's in [MENTION=2798]JB.[/MENTION] 's thread.

Yes LT tires are thicker and heavier than corresponding P metric tires - that means they will build up more heat for any given combination of load & inflation pressure. I haven't looked at every single load rating/inflation pressure chart for every size of LT tire - I have looked at them very carefully for the 265/70R17 sizes, and they all start at 35psi. 35 psi is the minimum inflation pressure required to achieve the stamped speed rating for LT tires in this size.

That's not to say that running an LT tire with a Q speed rating at 34 psi means its going to blow up at highway speeds, it just means that you are now operating outside of the engineered parameters of the tire and are cutting into the safety factors of the tire and its ability to dissipate heat at high speed. The faster you go and the lower the inflation pressure you go, the more likely you are to exceed the tires capability to dissipate heat and the more likely you are to have a failure. Because you are operating outside of the tire manufacturers guidelines you are purely guessing at this point.

DOT establishes minimum performance characteristics for tires based on their size, designation and speed rating. P Metric tires in 265/70R17 require a minimum inflation pressure of 26psi to meet in their speed rating. This inflation pressure is below the vehicles manufacturers recommendation, as Toyota is making recommendations based upon even wear, maximizing mileage and handling/braking characteristics. When you change from a P metric tire to a LT tire you have to start at the minimum inflation pressure (35psi in this case) and walk your pressure up from there seeking your optimum inflation pressure bases upon the aforementioned characteristics (handling/braking, mileage, wear).

There is no perfect right number - most seem happiest w/ LT tires inflated between 38-44psi in 265/70R17, but there is a wrong number - THAT'S ANY NUMBER OUTSIDE OF THE TIRE DESIGN PARAMETERS! Below 35psi is outside the design parameters for LT tires in this and it is potentially dangerous to operate LT tires in this size below this min pressure.

Back to the 35" LT tires - those aren't LT 265/70R17 tires and as such they have different design parameters. Referencing the Load Tables [MENTION=2798]JB.[/MENTION] was kind enough to link to:

http://www.toyotires.ca/sites/default/files/loadinflationtable.pdf

We can see that the minimum inflation pressure for LT 35x12.5 R17 tires is 25psi. I can easily see a tire manufacturer suggesting a light weight vehicle with comparatively large tires to run at the min. inflation pressure, so it's not surprising that Jeeps running this size are getting good performance on the street at 25-30psi. I could even see that some may run less than the min 25psi and get away with it because they probably are not running at high speeds for long periods of time, but it doesn't change the fact that they are operating outside of the tire manufactures engineered design parameters and they are "on their own" at that point.

Recommending tire pressures for someone running LT265/70R17E's based on previous experiences running LT35x12.5 R17 on a different vehicle is ignorant. And wrong!

David
 
and for simplicity's sake...

A thicker, heavier constructed tire needs MORE air pressure to carry the same load? Um, no. This doesn't even jive with common sense, much less real world results.

...

We have on many occasions seeked help from tire manufacturers and also tire distributors/vendors about the proper pressures to run in larger tires, and NEVER have they told us that a heavier duty tire or larger tire needs MORE air pressure. In fact it's just the opposite...larger tires hold more air. A higher volume of air requires less of it to hold the same load. This is science I know.. but science and common sense agree in this case.
i'm certain we've all sought information from manufacturers of all stripes and been provided with erroneous information. call back the next day and get more erroneous—yet somehow simultaneously contradictory—information. call again and maybe you're lucky enough to connect with someone who gets it right.

in that vein...
LTToyotable.png
 
From 4Wheel Parts, an industry leader in offroad equipment:

Let’s start with two simple ideas. One, the load of your truck is supported by the air volume in the tires. The constant is how many cubic feet of air can hold up a specific weight. What isn’t constant is the size of the container holding the air. Say you have two containers of different sizes holding the same volume of air. In this scenario, the smaller container will have higher pressure than the larger container. That means the larger tire needs less pressure than a smaller tire to carry the same vehicle weight. What many truck owners don’t know is how much less pressure is required. You can calculate this difference using one of four methods."

Then they go on to illustrate how to figure out what LOWER pressure you need for your new tires...

Nobody here buys LT 265/65-17, if they even make such thing. Everybody either stays stock or goes bigger. So the LT argument isn't valid. You're using a larger tire with more capacity to haul the load and you need less air to get the job done.

If you guys want to beat your kidneys out by running pressures that are wayyyy too high for the application, go right ahead. It's your vehicle. The rest of us with real world experience will continue to enjoy our ride quality and great tire wear. :pizza:
 
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From 4Wheel Parts, an industry leader in offroad equipment:

Let’s start with two simple ideas. One, the load of your truck is supported by the air volume in the tires. The constant is how many cubic feet of air can hold up a specific weight. What isn’t constant is the size of the container holding the air. Say you have two containers of different sizes holding the same volume of air. In this scenario, the smaller container will have higher pressure than the larger container. That means the larger tire needs less pressure than a smaller tire to carry the same vehicle weight. What many truck owners don’t know is how much less pressure is required. You can calculate this difference using one of four methods."

Then they go on to illustrate how to figure out what LOWER pressure you need for your new tires...

Nobody here buys LT 265/65-17, if they even make such thing. Everybody either stays stock or goes bigger. So the LT argument isn't valid. You're using a larger tire with more capacity to haul the load and you need less air to get the job done.

If you guys want to beat your kidneys out by running pressures that are wayyyy too high for the application, go right ahead. It's your vehicle. The rest of us with real world experience will continue to enjoy our ride quality and great tire wear. :pizza:


You are hysterical as you desperately quote things out of context and don't provide a link in an attempt to prove your point. I assume at this point you must realize you are wrong and are just arguing to "win", instead of trying to actually provide any useable advice.

Here is a link to your quote:

Tire Pressure Checker: Righting the Pressure in Your New Tires

They are specifically addressing going from a smaller sized LT tire to a larger sized LT tire. They do NOT address at all switching from P metric tires to LT tires. Still, they do provide some useful information on upsizing your tires and establishing a new correct tire pressure.

At no point to they EVER suggest that it is OK to operate a tire at a pressure that is below the design min. In fact, method 3 is my favorite:

Let the chart tell you If your truck has not been substantially modified, outside of the larger tires, you can use your tire inflation placard and a load inflation chart to identify a tire pressure.

The first step is to find the chart that goes with your stock tires. Locate the pressure that relates to the recommended pressure on the tire inflation placard. Then, look for the weight the tire should bear at that level of pressure. Next, get the chart for your new tires. Look for the same weight there. If that specific weight isn’t listed, select the next highest weight and record the recommended pressure.

Wow! Where have we heard that before?

Then they go on to provide an actual example:

Let’s go through an example, using a 2005 F-150HD that originally had 245/70R x 17D Load Range D tires.

  • According to the tire placard, at maximum load, the tire pressure should be 50 psi in the front and 60 psi in the back.
  • When you locate that tire at those pressures on the load inflation chart, the rated loads are 2,205 lbs. and 2,469 lbs.
  • The proposed new tires are 285/70R x 17D Mickey Thompson MTX Load Range D tires. The closest numbers on the load inflation chart for those tires is 2,340 lbs. and 2,540 lbs. These equate to 40 psi and 45 psi, respectively.
Wow! Looky there! Hmmmm, that looks an awful lot like what some other people have been telling you! Thanks for suggesting this resource - when you actually read what they are recommending, it is exactly what we have been recommending and exactly the opposite of what you have been recommending!

David
 
If you guys want to beat your kidneys out by running pressures that are wayyyy too high for the application, go right ahead. It's your vehicle. The rest of us with real world experience will continue to enjoy our ride quality and great tire wear. :pizza:
i suppose you must be referring to some other "real world experience" than my own 3.5 years and 32k miles with those exact same E-load 265/70-17 Goodyear Duratracs on a 4Runner.

you've had the facts laid bare to you several times, several ways, by several different people; doesn't matter to you. frankly, it doesn't matter to me either. i can only wonder, and marvel, at the unique combination of certainty, inflexibility, and impenetrability your "real world experience" has afforded you. :crazy::lalala:
 
i suppose you must be referring to some other "real world experience" than my own 3.5 years and 32k miles with those exact same E-load 265/70-17 Goodyear Duratracs on a 4Runner.

you've had the facts laid bare to you several times, several ways, by several different people; doesn't matter to you. frankly, it doesn't matter to me either. i can only wonder, and marvel, at the unique combination of certainty, inflexibility, and impenetrability your "real world experience" has afforded you. :crazy::lalala:


I've logged right at 250,000 miles in two Tacoma's and my wife's 4Runner with either 265/70R17E or 265/75R16E tires and kidneys are still very much intact!

David
 
thats a balance issue.

and has been said, 40 should be fine. but watch for uneven tread wear, and adjust accordingly.

Thanks man! Actually going back to have them rebalanced today and will check back in.

The shop owner was HORRIFIED that it was shaking AND set to 85psi. He said the tire balancer adjusts the air automatically for balancing purposes. The machine may need to be calibrated. Their tire changer does do high PSI, but It also adjusts pressure to complete the tire change. It's either human error or a faulty pressure sending unit. That could also be the reason why the tire balance was off.

Hopefully all is well today. And based off all the posts here, I should be riding around 44psi. Sorry it has turned into a pissing match of sorts, but these conversations help to get the real facts out.
 
Thanks man! Actually going back to have them rebalanced today and will check back in.

The shop owner was HORRIFIED that it was shaking AND set to 85psi. He said the tire balancer adjusts the air automatically for balancing purposes. The machine may need to be calibrated. Their tire changer does do high PSI, but It also adjusts pressure to complete the tire change. It's either human error or a faulty pressure sending unit. That could also be the reason why the tire balance was off.

Hopefully all is well today. And based off all the posts here, I should be riding around 44psi. Sorry it has turned into a pissing match of sorts, but these conversations help to get the real facts out.
hope they sort it out for you. like i said, you'll love those tires once they're set up properly. :cheers:
 
I'd have them rebalanced now that they're at a more suitable psi for you. A tire might require a bit more/less weight after more than half the air is removed.
 
hope they sort it out for you. like i said, you'll love those tires once they're set up properly. :cheers:

I'd have them rebalanced now that they're at a more suitable psi for you. A tire might require a bit more/less weight after more than half the air is removed.

Tires were rebalanced. Order has been restored.

Set at 44psi, they are comfortable, fun, and badass looking.

No wobble from 0-100mph, and they corner pretty well. They rebalanced all 4 tires so I'm not sure which ones were off. But they were very embarrassed about their error!
 
Tires were rebalanced. Order has been restored.

Set at 44psi, they are comfortable, fun, and badass looking.

No wobble from 0-100mph, and they corner pretty well. They rebalanced all 4 tires so I'm not sure which ones were off. But they were very embarrassed about their error!

Glad you got it sorted, enjoy!

David
 
I was running my GY DT's 275/65-18 at 35psi until I read this. Just changed them to 44psi and I can say they definitely ride better. They weren't very responsive at 35psi and felt like they were all over the road. Now at 44psi they definitely ride a little firmer but they corner 100% better.

I'll be curious to see how much my MPG increases also.

Thanks!
 
Just found this thread after realizing that the tire place had inflated my Duratracs - LT 265 70 17 E Range - to 32psi. That just seemed too low. I bumped them up to 40 last night after having a dim memory of running some E Range Michelin ATX AT2s at 40 all around on my '05 Tacoma. Just for the hell of it, I called Goodyear today and got a pleasant woman. After she initially said "run what the sticker says" and after I patiently explained that I was running a much heavier tire, not OEM, etc, and that I wanted to know the minimum pressure they recommended for a 2015 4Runner, she put me on hold for about 10 minutes. When she came back, she said 55 to 60psi. I said, "did you get the info from a technician or a chart?" She replied that it came out of a "Tire Pressure Book" that she had to go find.

I know the tires can take that pressure because - aside from the sidewall numbers - I run the exact same ones on my E350 van at 70psi. The question is, do I really want to go that high? I'm leaning towards pumping in another 4 pounds and going for 44, as you decided to do.
 
Im running Duratrac 285/70/17. I have been keeping them at around 32-34 psi. I would like to inflate them more for a more firm ride, so is it decided to run around 40 psi cold?
 
Viberation

So I bought a 3rd gem and put on some duratrac's aswell and now I'm getting a viberation in the wheel and or seat at 103-115km so I got my tires rebalanced as I thought it was the tires. The viberation didn't go away so I had the driveshaft checked and I still have the viberation I have warped rotors but I believe that should only affect the steering wheel under braking. I'm kin of at a loss ATM and would appreciate a direction in which to look. Maybe wheel bearings or cv shafts
 

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