Oh boy, we haven't gotten into interior parts yet at my current company. However, my first job out of college was designing commercial airline seats. Trust me, you don't want them - quality is total garbage.
TMT Front Bumper - BUYER BEWARE
- Thread starter MTN4RNR
- Start date
Oh boy, we haven't gotten into interior parts yet at my current company. However, my first job out of college was designing commercial airline seats. Trust me, you don't want them - quality is total garbage.
Swarty
New member
I'm probably just a cynic
IDK... that's how design refinement and capitalism works. If they had something novel you can use IP to protect yourself. There's not much engineering in that design and the CAD is pretty fast so in my mind you either have a novel design and use IP or be ready to compete on quality/cost.
IDK... that's how design refinement and capitalism works. If they had something novel you can use IP to protect yourself. There's not much engineering in that design and the CAD is pretty fast so in my mind you either have a novel design and use IP or be ready to compete on quality/cost.
MTN4RNR
New member
Yep. I definitely support the free market. Legally they have covered themselves by changing a few elements. All I’m here for is to tell it how it is and let people decide who they want to support. I’ll tell you right now, I’d rather buy from the company who designed and tested the product when it comes to major stresses that happen during winching and recovery operations. Not something I’d trust with a knock off.
honda250xtitan
New member
we bought two rows of airplane seats when we were in college... (Embry Riddle Aeronautical University)
they weren't much fun actually lol. took up our entire dorm "common area", one row didn't have a support leg on the end so it was perfect to eat sh1t in if you sat down on it.
found them on craigslist lolz
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MTN4RNR
New member
When you’re talking about R&D on a new design for this type of product, you bet there is time and money going into it. Engineering, CAD, fitment, fabrication, testing, revisions, etc. The CAD portion is a small part of what it takes to turn these products from a concept to reality. All of that time and money to develop comes from somewhere and with it being a smaller business it’s hard to make those costs back, let alone with someone taking your design.
Just sharing what I know with the community to help support a hard working small business. Who people spend their hard earned money with is ultimately up to them.
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Oh I agree. If I was in the market for this I would look at the OG manufacturer first. Unless their customer service was non existent or lead times were absolutely atrocious..........
But yeah, in this case, if they bought an original part for the sole purpose of copying it, that's a bit more morally ambiguous than if they came up with their own and it happened to look really similar - since there's only a handful of ways you can weld sheet metal together in a 1' x 3' section on the front of a vehicle.
LawnDart
Senior Member
I don't think anyone but ARB does. Since the process is MASSIVELY expensive.
MTN4RNR
New member
Nope. Not me.
MTN4RNR
New member
No crash testing. But there is engineering involved to make sure that the unit can withstand the forces involved with winch recovery. Otherwise you end up with a winch, no longer attached to the vehicle.
PeoplecallmeIan
New member
I didn't know that. I just checked their site to see their dealer network and it only had a few countries listed. Sucks for sure.
83Mule
New member
There are at least 3 of these style bumpers out there and they all vary enough that I have a preference to one over the others. This one is better than the one being ''copied'' for me as I don't like the lower grill on the ''original'' and the recovery points look stouter as well. A Patent can be applied for if you really want to stop knock-offs but I like the variety so I can choose.
Inv4drZm
Senior Member
I doubt Relentless or TMT did much in terms of strength-testing or R&D. Honestly I could draw up that exact design in a couple hours on Solidworks just given the front end of the truck to measure from. There is nothing secret going on, make it how everybody else has made bumpers for our trucks, use 3/16" or 1/4" plate, and know how to weld.
There are no cutouts that are the same on the front, they even changed the shackle mounts, the only similarity is where they placed the bend in the front sheet but that is necessary to follow the contour of the truck. I'd like to see the backsides, that is what separates good designs from bad.
I love Relentless's stuff, but who cares if there is one out there that looks similar? The only difference (on the outside) between C4 Fab's and Relentless' is C4's sticks out further, has a lightbar cutout, and a hoop. I think more people point fingers when a product is made out of the country that looks similar to an existing product made inside. Would it be as big of an issue if TMT's was made in the US by an existing offroad shop run by Toyota enthusiasts? Nope.
There are no cutouts that are the same on the front, they even changed the shackle mounts, the only similarity is where they placed the bend in the front sheet but that is necessary to follow the contour of the truck. I'd like to see the backsides, that is what separates good designs from bad.
I love Relentless's stuff, but who cares if there is one out there that looks similar? The only difference (on the outside) between C4 Fab's and Relentless' is C4's sticks out further, has a lightbar cutout, and a hoop. I think more people point fingers when a product is made out of the country that looks similar to an existing product made inside. Would it be as big of an issue if TMT's was made in the US by an existing offroad shop run by Toyota enthusiasts? Nope.
MTN4RNR
New member
There are at least 3 of these style bumpers out there and they all vary enough that I have a preference to one over the others. This one is better than the one being ''copied'' for me as I don't like the lower grill on the ''original'' and the recovery points look stouter as well. A Patent can be applied for if you really want to stop knock-offs but I like the variety so I can choose.
Yep. Everyone has their own taste for sure. One thing I’ll say about the “stouter” recovery points on the TMT is that if they are surface welded, which it looks like they are, they aren’t nearly as strong as the Relentless which are welded into the frame mounts behind the outer layer.
MTN4RNR
New member
I know for a fact that R&D went into the Relentless winch plate. Not in the same way that might be standard in the automotive world with controlled lab tests, but by designing a product and then testing it in the real world, identifying weak points and then refining. Any fabrication company that’s worth their salt does R&D when making a product. If a weld breaks on a recovery point during a hard pull or on the frame mounts to the winch while winching, that comes back to them as a manufacturer. And you won’t know what will work or fail without R&D. If you had an opportunity to look at the business end of one of these winch bumpers you’d see that there is A LOT of stuff going on back there that took a lot of time to properly design, fabricate, and perfect.
The main point of my post was to share that TMT bought a Relentless Fabrication winch bumper (that is verified with the invoice that they have) and then TMT came out with “their own” version months later. You are absolutely correct by saying that any fab shop can design and build one of these style of bumpers. It’s not a secret. But this isn’t the case here. They bought someone else’s, changed enough so it couldn’t be legally enforced, and is now trying to turn a profit while taking sales from the company that DID put in the time and money to build it. This has absolutely nothing to do with nationality or who is making the product. It’s simply a shady business practice that our community shouldn’t encourage.
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Well - after the horror stories, and examples on this forum, of Orangeboxx’s customer service - I don’t have any sympathy for them.
Similar to not feeling bad for Gobi when anyone copies their design.
phillyd2
Senior Member
Don't think there is much there unique enough to be patent worthy.
I get that some may not emotionally like this kind of business but it's nothing new and certainly not limited to any industry. It's been going on since the dawn of time and will always be with us. Hell, ford buys GM vehicles to tear them down to individual bolts. Anything good that is not covered by a patent is copied.
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