To supercharge or not to supercharge

[vtferret]

Oh 4runner gods, I come to you seeking guidance in a time of confusion.

I have been thinking about supercharging my baby. I have a 2002 with the 3.6 v6 engine. I know that, because I'm military, I will be moving sooner or later and know that a bit of extra power would certainly help me pull a trailer. And plus it's a pretty cool thing to have, or something.

I have a few questions before I start on my quest to find the parts and a mechanic that can slap them in for me:

1) Does it hurt my 4runner in the long run? I love my 4runner more than I loved my ex fiance, hints to why she's my ex, and I would cry if I ended up killing her.

2) Does it hurt/help gas milage? I already get like 18 city, so if it's just a small change down it wouldn't be a huge deal, but someone told me that they can actually help your fuel efficiency.

3) Does it actually make a noticeable difference? I know that some mods we can do (such as deck plate/ISR) will only boost the HP a little bit. Will a supercharger actually help in the task of pulling a trailer?

4)This is the big question. Would you recommend doing it? If it really is just a huge trouble for not a huge gain I could just make Uncle Sam move all of my stuff and forget about the prospect all together.

Thank you for listening to my pleas, oh wise ones of the 4runners.

 

[geohil]

As one that went through this there are goods and bads. You will love the power, sound, performance, and other 3rd gen owners wanting to see it. That said here are the questions back at you:
1. How mechanical are you? You will need some knowledge for the tuning even if you outsource the install.
2. How far do you want to go. A supercharger without fuel mods will eventually be bad for your motor. So at least a 7th injector kit should be considered.

As far as your questions:
1. When done right with fuel mods it will not hurt your 4runner.
2. My gas mileage stayed about the same - but you will be burning super from here on out.
3. S/C makes a big difference - including towing. Getting up to speed anyway, but the challenges of a trailer mostly have to do with tongue weight, steering, and stopping.
4. I like messing with my truck so for me the S/C is a good fit. If you want to toss it on and forget about it....think again. There is some additional maintenance and if you decide to go with a smaller pulley (more boost) be prepared to upgrade every dang part of your drive-train.

Before the vultures descend - our V6 is a 3.4. Bullet proof V6.

 

[JayRolla]

Oh 4runner gods, I come to you seeking guidance in a time of confusion.

I have been thinking about supercharging my baby. I have a 2002 with the 3.6 v6 engine. I know that, because I'm military, I will be moving sooner or later and know that a bit of extra power would certainly help me pull a trailer. And plus it's a pretty cool thing to have, or something.

I have a few questions before I start on my quest to find the parts and a mechanic that can slap them in for me:

1) Does it hurt my 4runner in the long run? I love my 4runner more than I loved my ex fiance, hints to why she's my ex, and I would cry if I ended up killing her.

2) Does it hurt/help gas milage? I already get like 18 city, so if it's just a small change down it wouldn't be a huge deal, but someone told me that they can actually help your fuel efficiency.

3) Does it actually make a noticeable difference? I know that some mods we can do (such as deck plate/ISR) will only boost the HP a little bit. Will a supercharger actually help in the task of pulling a trailer?

4)This is the big question. Would you recommend doing it? If it really is just a huge trouble for not a huge gain I could just make Uncle Sam move all of my stuff and forget about the prospect all together.

Thank you for listening to my pleas, oh wise ones of the 4runners.

1. Usually the little added power doesnt put to much more stress on the motor, just have to use premium fuel only. There has been some trans failures on high mileage after superchargers but not to much without going to the upgraded pulley for more boost.

2. It will hurt gas mileage, more air, more power, needs more fuel, period. Mostly caused by heavy foot which happens after SC install.

3. Yes it helps. Its like going from v6 to v8. That extra 70+hp and tq really is noticeable.

4. If you got the money, dont mind loss in fuel mileage than go for it. Superchargers, turbos and Nitrous are probably the most fun things to add to any vehicle. LOL.

 

[geohil]

Just give these guys a blank check if you want more power:
URD Fuel Upgrade Kits - Underdog Racing Development

 

[s20004runner]

do it.

My plan is to go w/ the larger pulley (less boost) w/ no fuel mod or get a meth/water injector kit. I haven't done it yet, but my hope is that I don't have to refill meth/water frequently cause of using lower boost.

I don't want to do the 7th URD as they are expensive in my opinion.

 

[vtferret]

As one that went through this there are goods and bads. You will love the power, sound, performance, and other 3rd gen owners wanting to see it. That said here are the questions back at you:
1. How mechanical are you? You will need some knowledge for the tuning even if you outsource the install.
2. How far do you want to go. A supercharger without fuel mods will eventually be bad for your motor. So at least a 7th injector kit should be considered.

As far as your questions:
1. When done right with fuel mods it will not hurt your 4runner.
2. My gas mileage stayed about the same - but you will be burning super from here on out.
3. S/C makes a big difference - including towing. Getting up to speed anyway, but the challenges of a trailer mostly have to do with tongue weight, steering, and stopping.
4. I like messing with my truck so for me the S/C is a good fit. If you want to toss it on and forget about it....think again. There is some additional maintenance and if you decide to go with a smaller pulley (more boost) be prepared to upgrade every dang part of your drive-train.

Before the vultures descend - our V6 is a 3.4. Bullet proof V6.

Incredibly useful info! Thanks! I am a pretty mechanical, or at least I learn quickly when it comes to it. I just lack the space and specialized tools to do a lot of the jobs. I live in an apartment without a garage, so doing things more complicated than changing oil or painting parts with a rattle can is a battle. Especially considering I live in Florida where it rains every day. One of the guys who used to work where I work was telling me about the 7th injector upgrade, he slapped that, a snorkel, and a 9 gal spare tank into his 4runner before he had to trade his for a sequoia due to having a 3rd kid. He lived in Arizona though, where he actually got to play with his in the dirt. There are some places to play around here, but they are mostly sand, so having open differentials really doesn't help at all.

Any way, I'll start pricing everything out. And maybe try to become friends with someone that owns a garage down here so I can negotiate some cheaper install prices!

And thanks for correcting my 3.4 issue. I don't know why I thought it was a 3.6, meh.

 

[geohil]

do it.

My plan is to go w/ the larger pulley (less boost) w/ no fuel mod or get a meth/water injector kit. I haven't done it yet, but my hope is that I don't have to refill meth/water frequently cause of using lower boost.

I don't want to do the 7th URD as they are expensive in my opinion.

Look at the SnowPerformance meth kit. It reads your MAF to determine when to turn on and ramp up. It conserves meth as much as possible. That said you will still be filling it a bunch if your foot is hard down.

Incredibly useful info! Thanks! I am a pretty mechanical, or at least I learn quickly when it comes to it. I just lack the space and specialized tools to do a lot of the jobs. I live in an apartment without a garage, so doing things more complicated than changing oil or painting parts with a rattle can is a battle. Especially considering I live in Florida where it rains every day. One of the guys who used to work where I work was telling me about the 7th injector upgrade, he slapped that, a snorkel, and a 9 gal spare tank into his 4runner before he had to trade his for a sequoia due to having a 3rd kid. He lived in Arizona though, where he actually got to play with his in the dirt. There are some places to play around here, but they are mostly sand, so having open differentials really doesn't help at all.

Any way, I'll start pricing everything out. And maybe try to become friends with someone that owns a garage down here so I can negotiate some cheaper install prices!

And thanks for correcting my 3.4 issue. I don't know why I thought it was a 3.6, meh.

Once you go for the URD stuff you will be dropping your gas tanks and snipping wires on your ECU so a garage and a friend help a lot. That said I did mine in my driveway by my lonesome and it still worked out. The install of the actual S/C really isn't too tough. Try to get one with the dynamic belt tensioner and all the hardware included. It will save you time and frustration. Also if the S/C you buy is used make sure it is in decent shape or has been rebuilt (http://www.thehighspeedlab.com/). Nothing worse then having a bad bearing and sending metal down your motor.

 

[afg10000]

I asked this same question a few months back. I'll quote ShootMyMime, "do it, you won't regret it". I agree with geohil, the URD 7th is a much more complicated install than slapping the SC on. If you're able to get the SC with all it's goodies, it's pretty straight forward. I installed the SC w/7th at the same time. Truck was pissed for a few days whilst the comps were getting happy but after that it runs like nothing ever changed. Until you decide to give it some juice. If you don't do the URD 7th, I'd highly recommend at least getting the 170* thermostat. That at least makes the engine run at stock operating temps with the SC. It by far the funnest mod. Every time you turn the key, it'll make ya smile -

 

[FlipStyle54]

Now is the hardest part finding a supercharger? I've been looking for a while but finding one on the east coast has proved to be difficult to me.

 

[buccaneerbandit]

Sc

What part of Florida are you in ? I have a garage and a decent tool set up with compressor. Im in Orlando so let me know. Either way good luck

 

[Rock_Rat]

I have been thinking about supercharging my baby. I have a 2002 with the 3.6 v6 engine. I know that, because I'm military, I will be moving sooner or later and know that a bit of extra power would certainly help me pull a trailer. And plus it's a pretty cool thing to have, or something.

I'm in the middle of rebuilding mine. Before I re-install it I'm seriously considering electric fans to try and reduce the temps. My water temp with just the plenums on is around 184 but with the SC on it really runs hot. My transmission temp is up there too. I'm not towing anything.

And oh yea, I've had the ISR/Deck plate mod for quite a while and your pedal response increases but I seriously doubt there's any increase in HP. You need to get rid of the logs and increase your exhaust flow with Thorley's along with an SC and then you'll see an increase in HP. I still have the logs on. Best of luck to you.

 

[Supermoney]

Now is the hardest part finding a supercharger? I've been looking for a while but finding one on the east coast has proved to be difficult to me.

New 4Runner T100 Tacoma Tundra TRD Super Charger Kit Assembly | eBay

 

[paddlenbike]

I don't have anything further to add as others have hit on the key points. In the end, supercharging is one of the best things I have done. It's pretty cool that I can hop out of my 15 year old Toyota and into the latest model 5th gen 4Runner and come away thinking it's gutless as hell (which it is). The power is really nice for climbing mountain grades, towing or racing your friends in the desert. It brings new life to the 4Runner.

I'm sure you can tell which of these is the supercharged one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn67z-7Ufbg

 

[gamefreakgc]

1) Does it hurt my 4runner in the long run? I love my 4runner more than I loved my ex fiance, hints to why she's my ex, and I would cry if I ended up killing her.

2) Does it hurt/help gas milage? I already get like 18 city, so if it's just a small change down it wouldn't be a huge deal, but someone told me that they can actually help your fuel efficiency.

3) Does it actually make a noticeable difference? I know that some mods we can do (such as deck plate/ISR) will only boost the HP a little bit. Will a supercharger actually help in the task of pulling a trailer?

4)This is the big question. Would you recommend doing it? If it really is just a huge trouble for not a huge gain I could just make Uncle Sam move all of my stuff and forget about the prospect all together.

Thank you for listening to my pleas, oh wise ones of the 4runners.

Quick answer to your first question, yes! You will never regret supercharging it.

As a little background, my 4Runner has been supercharged over 100,000 miles with little side affects. The engine is completely solid. More on that below.

1. No. It was designed by Toyota to have no fuel mods, and works fine as is. There are no documented long-term effects that are detrimental to the engine. However, heat does become and issue if you live in a hot climate. Some have said it, but plan on installing a cooler thermostat to help with the coolant and a transmission cooler. The supercharger will raise the transmission temperature significantly and that will wear it down faster. The transmission on mine made it to 180k miles before it quit due to the previous owner never checking the fluid.

2. It's a trade-off. You might get slightly better mileage if you can resist stomping on the pedal at every chance but you will have to run Premium fuel of 91 octane or higher. So you pay more but might gain an MPG or two. I average 18-19 MPG with 91 octane.

3. YES. We are talking about +75 HP at the crank and a similar amount of torque. For a 183 HP engine, that's a huge boost.

4. I bought my 4Runner solely because of the supercharger. Much cheaper to rebuild one already a rig than buy a new one.

One of the guys who used to work where I work was telling me about the 7th injector upgrade, he slapped that, a snorkel, and a 9 gal spare tank into his 4runner before he had to trade his for a sequoia due to having a 3rd kid. He lived in Arizona though, where he actually got to play with his in the dirt. There are some places to play around here, but they are mostly sand, so having open differentials really doesn't help at all.

Let me say this: fuel mods are NOT necessarily for longevity of the engine. Heat management is. It works just fine with no fuel mods.

That being said, there is upwards of 50+ more HP to be gained if you add more fuel mods and other things. The 7th injector claims 40 HP, probably in the real world it's a bit less. But if you reduce the size of the pulley along with fuel mods which increases PSI, you can hit 50 HP or more at the crank, so around 310 HP, which translates to around 240-250 RWHP. There's a few members who have dyno'd around there.

Currently my rig has only the supercharger and has plenty of power to spare.

Costs:

$2800-$3000 for the supercharger and installation kit http://trdparts4u.toyotaofdallas.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=-8162
$895 for 7th Injector Kit http://urdusa.com/store/Fuel-Upgrad...for-TRD-5VZ-FE-Supercharger/product_info.html
OR
$700-$800 for Methanol Injection (Coolingmist, AEM, Snow Performace are good) and wideband sensor and gauge
$100 for smaller pulley, 2.2 and 2.1 are most common http://urdusa.com/store/Pulleys-Sup...lley-for-3.4L-Toyota-Trucks/product_info.html

 

[geohil]

The key to all this though is take your time and do it right. I had lots of regret when after only 1500 miles my supercharger needed the nose cone rebuilt, then had ECU issues with the URD piggy-back kit. All of those frustrations came down to me being lazy though. I was responsible for the poor soldier job on the ECU and not checking out the S/C before slapping it on. Poorly executed you are taking a perfectly running motor and turning into a mess - so take your time.

After a full rebuild of the S/C and taking my time setting up the rest of the components I now have a daily driven 4Runner that can toast that coffee-can civic off the line while rolling on 34-inch tires. (4.56 gears FYI) I am heavy on the gas peddle always and have been for the last 75K miles while supercharged with zero problems.

 

[angus]

I'd do it again but I would avoid URD at all costs.

Call and talk to Gadget and you'll see wha I mean.

I'm ripping their garbage 7th injector kit off and going with a proper solution, AEM FIC and larger injectors.

 

[Rock_Rat]

I'm ripping their garbage 7th injector kit off and going with a proper solution, AEM FIC and larger injectors.

Please explain...

 

[RussToy]

I'd do it again but I would avoid URD at all costs.

Call and talk to Gadget and you'll see wha I mean.

I'm ripping their garbage 7th injector kit off and going with a proper solution, AEM FIC and larger injectors.

Please explain...

Mr Angus....X2 Please explain!!

I'm Just getting ready to install the "garbage 7th injector Kit" and would really like to know what's wrong with this kit? I've never heard of anybody dogging the 7th injector kit?? Maybe you'll save me a lot of time and effort.

Thanks for your input....good or bad?!?

- Russel

 

[angus]

Ok, sorry I was late replying.

I want to start off by saying I was a big fan of URD after reading all the people talking about them and reading Gadget's seemingly cool posts.

The URD 7th injector kit is a great BAND-AID.

It's about as good a band aid as the S/C itself - so you can take that as you like.

It should also be noted that if you buy it and install it as-is you have a 50/50 chance it might be fine - and "just barely" fine at that.

After spending a lot of time and money with them, I feel I should have used either the split second FTC or AEM FI/C and larger injectors - or just used meth injection - and I still may.

Tuning the 7th injector, it is almost impossible to get factory like drivability - the injector seems too large, and also the ESC function cannot be adjusted for what
"value" you would like it to "present" to the ECU.

I MAY try a smaller injector and see. If not, I'll be selling the kit.

Gadget and his crew make some pretty neat products - but the HYPE is WAY better than the parts. so here's my take ( and keep in mind, I was patient and spent over $1K with them.

- Overpriced - you can do way better off elsewhere (pulleys from atkins rotary, fuel/timing control from split second or AEM) Completely forget about any other products from them as they are mostly 3rd party and more expensive than anyone else.

- No real customer service

- When you do get customer service, it's from Gadget and he has no business talking to customers on the phone - his personality is similar to a cardboard box.

- They will treat you like you are stupid, I ended up having to figure out things myself to even get it working - their tech advice wrong.

On top of this, I just got an email from a friend who is trying to fix his new truck (also a 3.4 S/C). He bought it with a URD 7th injector setup but the S/C was modified and the previous owner had made some strange 7th injector setup - anyhow, apparently Gadget initially refused to sell him replacement injector parts and when he did agree to it, he tried to sell him the injector by itself for $600!!! Needless to say, I am making him a nicer injector bung for about $80.

I'll skip them from now on. I've gotten out of cars before due to companies doing stuff like this (Nissan 240SX) and if they were the only choice in parts, you'd be seeing me in a Jeep as well.

Sorry for the rant but you asked.

 

[paddlenbike]

I can certainly agree with angus about URD's customer service. It is beyond terrible. Specifically, it is non-existant. Expect no reply from your calls or emails.

That said though, my experience is the exact opposite of his when it comes to using the 7th injector. Tuning is reasonably straight forward and I haven't had to mess around with it since my initial tune. Sure, I have dialed things in a little better, but it wasn't anything I had to do. The nice thing about the 7th injector route is the Toyota ECU is taking care of everything, all the time, except for when you tell the URD stuff to intervene. Your only choices are timing retard (at low RPMs and with positive boost to offset ping) and the ability to add fuel via the 7th injector at specific boost and RPM levels to prevent the high RPM lean-out. This is where the TRD SC kit falls short and this is where the band-aid is needed, so to speak. The rest of the time the Toyota ECU is doing everything else. I've had my cars with the big-6 injector kits, computers to run it all...never again. In this case, the beauty of the URD 7th kit is it only works when needed.