Touchy Grabby Brakes

[Rdfish1]

Well, alas, i know it just isn't me. I have not been back to this site since i purchased my pearl limited 7000 miles ago but I've had enough of these brakes and decided i need to search to determine whether there is a problem. Found this thread during my search.

I could go on like some of the other posters and comment on how I've been driving for almost 35 years and never experienced anything like this but for those who think it is ok and or normal, i will disagree. However, it sounds like i will need to live with it. I really hate that feature, i think it is a terrible characteristic of the vehicle. Ive had the vehicle 7 months and it has happened about 4-5 times so a little less than once a month but once a year is too much.

Yesterday, i was hauling my boat at apprx 50 in a 55 or 60 mph zone when the light changed. Im not above cruising thru a yellow light but i was far enough out that i wouldn't make it but it required a moderately aggressive amt of pressure to stop the vehicle and the boat. I then found myself in lock up mode and stuff went flying, once again.

 

[LJPotter685]

I have been having the same issue with my 4Runner. Brakes grabbing at speeds of 35 -45 MPH, tire squealing. The Toyota dealer mechanics have not been able duplicate the problem nor can they find any cause. Nor can I make it happen on demand. I just happens. It's happened on six occasions since we purchased the car used in June 2014. After the last incident I filed a complaint with the NHTSA. My concern is that when driving in the snow covered mountainous roads of central Oregon the brake locking issue will occur on a curve, causing the vehicle to skid sideways and roll.

 

[LJPotter685]

My concern is not living with the problem, but dying because of it

 

[LJPotter685]

Have you thought about filing a report with the National Traffic Safety Administration?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

So let me understand this.

Some of you are saying you are experiencing wheel lock-up on a vehicle that has ABS????

I'd like to be sitting in the passenger seat and see that first hand.

If you are, your ABS is malfunctioning and your ABS dash light should be on.

Or maybe, just maybe, you are putting way too much foot into the brake pedal and the vehicle is stopping you as fast as possible? ;-)

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Are you guys sure it's the brakes locking up and not braking force being multiplied?

There's a "hard stop" mode (I can't remember the name off the top of my head) that is triggered when the brake is applied quickly and sharply. Keep in mind these brakes are rather soft feeling already, so it's easy to sink that pedal to the floor under moderate braking.

When the "hard stop" mode kicks in it basically triples the braking force applied to the brakes and will almost stop that thing on a dime. If you're hauling large loads or are unfamiliar with the vehicle it's very easy to trip that feature. I showed my friend when he bought his FJ and he's accidentally tripped it once or twice. I still do every now and then and I'm pretty used to the brakes on 4th & 5th gens.

It's a very nice feature to have in a panic stop situation, but it can be easily tripped sometimes.

 

[1engineer]

Simply hitting the brakes too fast. Brakes will not lock up even on snow because ABS. If you are locking up the brakes something is way wrong.

 

[Rdfish1]

Yeah, lock up is probably the wrong choice of words bc the abs does in fact stop the vehicle from going into a flat out skid. It will chirp the tires and nearly go into a skid before the abs kicks in but regardless of how you describe it, this is a terrible characteristic of this vehicle. As much as I hate the thought of taking a financial hit on this one year old vehicle, there are enough things I dislike about this 4Runner that it will likely be the shortest amount of time that I've kept any vehicle. My rule of thumb is, keep them for 10 years. I don't think I will make the 2 year mark with this one. Its not just the brakes, it's a bunch of stuff.

Btw, as a side note, it may be known already but I learned the new 4Runner is coming out as a 2019 model, introduced in 2018. Is this common knowledge? I met a Toyota executive this week and asked the question. He also said a new Prius was coming this year and a new Camry next year.

 

[LJPotter685]

This has happened to us no less than six time since June 2014. Am I wrong in thinking the wheels should not lock up, causing the tire to lay a patch of rubber. Because that's what is happening, and that's my main concern with this issue. The frustrating thing is my independent mechanic has not been able to duplicate it, the Toyota mechanics have not been able to duplicate it and I've not been able to make it happen on demand. My real concern is not dry pavement, but snow covered mountain roads on a curve, (pretty common where we live) and the high center of gravity on the 4runner, resulting in a roll-over. This is my 5th vehicle with ABS systems and it has never ever happened on any of the previously owned vehicles. So it has me a bit frustrated because, for the most part, brake issues excepted, we love this vehicle.

 

[catrains]

your ABS is with a defect. the control module should be replaced.

when the roads are wet or snow covered then it would be an easy task to check this out.

operating @40MPH and the brakes are full on the wheels should never lock up... also the ABS warning lights may not show with an intermittent problem.

scanning the ABS code history may show whats going on.

this is an electronic type failure .

 

[b407driver]

The "brake assist" has been and continues to be my biggest complaint about my 4Runner. It took me several months after buying the vehicle to even figure out what this feature was...

...There has been many times that I have just wanted to slow down a little, but it nose dives, throws stuff from the back to the front and nearly gets me rear ended.

After having just test-driven both a 4-Runner and GX460 back-to-back on three different occasions, I can say with certainty that this grabby-brake 'feature' on the 4Runner will be my least favorite aspect (well, I'd really like the 4.6L V8 under the hood, but that's another thread).

The GX's brakes *do not* exhibit this characteristic, and are like the brakes on virtually all other vehicles I've driven: predictable, regardless of brake pedal throw. Several above mention modulation: if these brakes were installed on a mountain bike, people using them would be OTB on every other ride. Yes, I can learn to adapt, but I don't think I should have to, let alone the occasional driver issue.

Seems odd to me that the GX should drive any differently than the 4Runner, but leads me to ask the question: is the difference attributable to hardware or software? Anyone know if the brakes are the same on each vehicle (e.g. do 17" wheels fit on the GX460)?

If it's software, I'd pay good money for someone to program Lexus' parameters into my new 4Runner.

In this day and age--what with distracted driving becoming so common--makes me wonder if the 4Runner gets hit from the rear more often than other vehicles.

 

[FactoryT4R]

It's sensing a panic brake and applies the brakes harder so you stop in time, the simple (only) solution is not not slam on your brakes or move from the accelerator to the brake so quickly.

This. I had the same happen to me, but in my eyes the brakes were acting like they should in a panic situation by pulsing.. it also has to take in consideration the overall weight of the truck and how fast you're asking it to stop without sliding all over the place. ABS allows you to turn while braking.

 

[b407driver]

Not sure where cjacob's response went, but I read the thread, I get it, Toyota considers it feature, not bug. It doesn't mean that Toyota got it right.

 

[FactoryT4R]

In this day and age--what with distracted driving becoming so common--makes me wonder if the 4Runner gets hit from the rear more often than other vehicles.

I am the all time winner for getting rear ended... that's how I got into the 4runner and all the rest of my previous cars. I'll let you know!

 

[dade73]

I will say from what I remember of my 2nd gen T4R, the brakes on my 5th gen are touchy, but I also went from an Acadia (which was heavy as $#!+ and you could feel it while braking)to a 5th gen 4runner. it is just taking me a bit to get used to the brakes, and the less weight behind it. I haven't tried it while towing yet.

 

[vicpick58]

I am the all time winner for getting rear ended... that's how I got into the 4runner and all the rest of my previous cars. I'll let you know!

I have been rear ended in the 4Runner already, but it was not due to the brake assist stopping me too fast. (this time)

Fortunately it was low speed and damage was minimal. I got a new hitch and bumper cover. The impact only opened the sunroof cover about 1/2 way.

The main problem was after it was hit, it was out of alignment and I had a very hard time getting the body shop to believe that it happened in the accident. Took 3 different tire shops to finally get the issue resolved.

No one could explain to me why it got knocked out of alignment from getting hit in the rear. Only thing I can figure is that I had my foot on the brakes and when the vehicle was pushed forward it somehow messed up the frond end.

It ruined the tires that I had because while fighting to get the alignment taken care of by the insurance, I was using the vehicle for work and drove it well over 1000 miles, the front tires got chewed up some and even after rotation they were never the same.

 

[FactoryT4R]

^^^ I'd be all up in the insurance company's @ss about that... They'd be reimbursing me for tires and alignments. Bet me.

 

[catrains]

I have been rear ended in the 4Runner already, but it was not due to the brake assist stopping me too fast. (this time)

Fortunately it was low speed and damage was minimal. I got a new hitch and bumper cover. The impact only opened the sunroof cover about 1/2 way.

The main problem was after it was hit, it was out of alignment and I had a very hard time getting the body shop to believe that it happened in the accident. Took 3 different tire shops to finally get the issue resolved.

No one could explain to me why it got knocked out of alignment from getting hit in the rear. Only thing I can figure is that I had my foot on the brakes and when the vehicle was pushed forward it somehow messed up the frond end.

It ruined the tires that I had because while fighting to get the alignment taken care of by the insurance, I was using the vehicle for work and drove it well over 1000 miles, the front tires got chewed up some and even after rotation they were never the same.

my guess the frame got bent. so now the wheels are not in the proper set point. I would go to a frame straightening shop for a alignment check.

if off get a complete estimate and send by mail a demand for payment of these damages . if they refuse or don't answer sue them. that will get their attention.

 

[Martyb]

I've had my 2016 4runner for a few weeks and have never had a vehicle where the brakes were so over-boosted. I am starting to get used to it but my wife and I go back and forth between vehicles regularly and you have to be very careful. Her Sonata SE felt like the brakes were barely working when I first went back to it. The throttle on the other hand is the opposite, the Sonata acceleration is heavily weighted to the beginning of the range where the 4runner hardly wakes up unless you put your foot in it. By far the biggest difference I have felt in any 2 vehicles we've owned.

 

[vicpick58]

my guess the frame got bent. so now the wheels are not in the proper set point. I would go to a frame straightening shop for a alignment check.

if off get a complete estimate and send by mail a demand for payment of these damages . if they refuse or don't answer sue them. that will get their attention.

Just to follow up on this post, my frame seems to be fine. I got new Cooper tires last December and have about 30k miles on them now, they are wearing nice and even with 10k mile rotation intervals.

As for the brake assist, I still get it occasionally, but have learned to keep it under control most of the time.