Towing: 4Runner vs Pathfinder and V6 vs V8

[gm350reratliff]

The majority of the opinions you get here will be biased towards the 4runner. In my experience, the 4runner is the better choice vs. the pathfinder. A couple friends and family own pathfinders. They seem to have more issues than the 4runner and also don't age as well. They also seem to get worse mpg than the 4runner. My finely calibrated butt-dyno says the 4runner puts more power to the ground regardless of what the numbers say. IMHO, the negative camber that is inherent to the IRS of the pathfinder looks terrible and is hard on tires especially when loaded heavy or towing.

Either v6 or v8 should be fine for your towing. With any vehicle, especially used, reliability is luck of the draw.

 

[WillK]

Wow, I feel sorry for the OP.
There's NO way the v8 Runner puts down more power than the Pathy V8, which is a 5.6 317/385 motor that makes serious power. NO WAY! My stock Titan dynoed on a real dyno, not my butt-dyno, with more HP and TQ at the wheel than the 4Runner has at the crank. Then adding mods that most here so don't work, I was back to the crank numbers at the wheel.

Second, just because the V6 can run at 65mph at 2,000 RPM's has nothing to do with torque, but more with gearing and the 5 speed. But I'll add that the V6 towing won't be at 2,000 rpms at 65 mph with a 2,500 lbs. trailer attached.

As for the V6 defenders, there's no comparison when it comes to towing. Why did Toyota put the V8 in the Runner, to make a better tow vehicle, PERIOD.

To the OP, get the V8. The V6 may work well for local trips (under 150 miles), but over the long haul, you'll wish you had the V8. The power is noticeably better and the V8 will tow 2,000lbs. and passengers effortlessly.

 

[wnelax04sr5]

to say theres no comparison is ridiculous, but the v8 does tow better, it has more torque and 2 more cylinders. OP, buy what you want, but despite what every v8 owner thinks, the v6 is actually capable of moving the 4runner, it doesn't just sit at a standstill and say "wow i wish i was a v8", so don't discount it at all, both are excellent motors.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Oh boy, here we go again. This shouldn't turn into a V6 versus V8 thread, but let's get this clear: The 4.7 V8, while marginally better than the V6, is an outdated, underpowered interference engine that was killed off for a reason. 270hp / 320 ft-lbs is sleep-inducingly mediocre. Yawn. AND the V8s are known to have a common exhaust manifold cracking issue (pricey fix), timing belt (pricey fix), generally get 1-1.5 MPG less than the V6 - hands down more expensive to maintain than the V6 for all the reasons above.

You can't go wrong with either OP, but if the right truck you find turns out to be a V6, I woulnd't even think twice and just pull the trigger.

Oh boy, here we go again.

The V8 has the benefit of a lower torque curve, transmission cooler, and better final drive gears (they also come equipped standard with a better frame mounted tow hitch than the V6 models.)

The 2UZ-FE was phased out because it had reached the end of its lifetime in Toyota's eyes. They wanted a lighter engine that would better meet emissions and fuel economy standards. While not a GM powerhouse like some of their V8's it actually ended up being a reliable workhorse of an engine (or did we all forget the large amount of cylinder head issues the older GM V8's seemed to have?) The Manifold crack issue is about on par with the 1GR-FE's headgasket issue (mine at 106k is non-cracked and the engine is pretty quiet even with the rear resonator cut off.) Timing Belts have their advantages and disadvantages as do Timing Chains; but guess what they both due? Stretch and wear out. Yes the Chain lasts 2-3 times longer than the belt, but when you replace the belt you don't have to replace everything under the timing cover including the crank and camshaft gears (which should be done on a worn Timing Chain motor to prevent timing inconsistencies.)

The 1GR-FE (both single and dual VVTi flavors) is a good engine, in my opinion probably one of the better NA V6 motors in the small truck/SUV segment. The 2UZ-FE has a proven and respected track record as a good solid V8 engine that has underpinned many of Toyota's larger truck/duty oriented vehicles, while not as powerful as some domestic V8's, it has proven to be a fairly reliable and relatively drama-free powerplant.

 

[empty403]

Can the V8 do a better job? - Maybe

Maybe???? Of course it does a better job.

I take it you've never driven the V8. Having 80% of peak torque available at 1200 rpm is nothing near mediocre. Nobody drives at redline all day long, it's power available under the curve that gives the feeling of a strong engine.

Also the v8 is deathly quiet. I actually have to listen very closely to hear any noise from the engine. Unless you get on it, it never shifts above 2k and has an insane amount of torque down low.

+1, I have the V8 and I have driven my friend's 5th gen. The V6 is louder/buzzier and feels weaker even though it has more HP. It's all about the torque at low RPMs.

highway passes, as well as those gradual inclines that last forever like Wyoming, which is why I'm getting my own light hauler.

NinjaPyrate,
Because these are some of your concerns, the V8 is your answer. That's for either the 4Runner or Pathfinder. Since you'll be towing all year don't worry about MPGs, your fuel economy won't be that great with a trailer with any type of engine. You'll likely get better gas mileage with the V8 since you won't have to push it that hard.

 

[wnelax04sr5]

NinjaPyrate,
Because these are some of your concerns, the V8 is your answer. That's for either the 4Runner or Pathfinder. Since you'll be towing all year don't worry about MPGs, yourfuel economy won't be that great with a trailer with any type of engine. You'll likely get better gas mileage with the V8 since you won't have to push it that hard.

Unless the op buys a diesel....

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Unless the op buys a diesel....

Did someone say Diesel?

Toyota 1VD-FTV 4.5L V8 Dual Variable Geometry TurboCharged Common Rail Diesel? 650 N·m (479 lb·ft) @ 1600-2600 rpm

Can you say VROOOM!

 

[gm350reratliff]

Wow, I feel sorry for the OP.
There's NO way the v8 Runner puts down more power than the Pathy V8, which is a 5.6 317/385 motor that makes serious power. NO WAY! My stock Titan dynoed on a real dyno, not my butt-dyno, with more HP and TQ at the wheel than the 4Runner has at the crank. Then adding mods that most here so don't work, I was back to the crank numbers at the wheel.

Second, just because the V6 can run at 65mph at 2,000 RPM's has nothing to do with torque, but more with gearing and the 5 speed. But I'll add that the V6 towing won't be at 2,000 rpms at 65 mph with a 2,500 lbs. trailer attached.

As for the V6 defenders, there's no comparison when it comes to towing. Why did Toyota put the V8 in the Runner, to make a better tow vehicle, PERIOD.

To the OP, get the V8. The V6 may work well for local trips (under 150 miles), but over the long haul, you'll wish you had the V8. The power is noticeably better and the V8 will tow 2,000lbs. and passengers effortlessly.

Guess I should have specified v6 vs. v6. While I have driven a few v8 4runners, I've never driven a v8 pathy. The v6 pathys I've driven were definitely slower than my 4runner.

 

[xxaarraa]

You V8 4R guys crack me up. Really. There is a guy in this thread who speaks of the "insane amount of torque" Another one posts "that much power from that small of an engine" What are you guys smoking because I want it Let's do some basic arithmetic. 270 HP from a 4.7L is marginally better than 50 hp per liter. I say that's mediocre, unless you are from the 1960s. Then, even if all 320 ft-lbs is delivered at zero RPM (which it is not, just giving you that for effect), you are talking about 320 ft-lbs in a 4000+ lb truck. It is the definition of mediocre.

Bottom line - those that like the 4.7 V8 probably don't have a very good frame of reference. Try and drive a German V8 if you get a chance. Or even another modern Toyota V8 and you will agree. There is a reason the engine reached "its end of life" Plenty of old engines still being made, including the V6, the 4.7 just isn't worthwhile anymore. If I got it for free, I'd take it. Hey, I have nothing against it. But I am so tired of you 4.7 guys trying to turn a square into a circle. Oh, yes, the V6 is even more yawn inducing and boring than the V8. But at least, I don't have a V8 just to tell everyone I have a V8.

Also, to the gentleman who asked if I have driven a V8, I have owned 4 AMGs over the years, and have owned everything from 3 cylinders, I4s, V6s, flat 6s, V8s. Only reason I mention this is to say I have a frame of reference.

 

[T4R2014]

Bottom line - 2UZ still has more power and tows more than the V6 which is what the OP is looking for in a vehicle. German V8's are nice but not as reliable.

 

[Icepuck72]

I've owned BOTH 4Runners in the V6 and V8. There's a reason I wanted a V8. While the V6 is capable, you're not going to beat the V8. It's an awesome engine.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

[MENTION=84789]xxaarraa[/MENTION] You're missing the point, you're being purposefully oblivious to the fact that in the sub-5.0L range the 2UZ-FE actually seems to be the better choice in the last decade or two.

-ChryCorp's 4.7L made about 330ftlbs and they weren't really great engines (not that I would expect anything made by them to be, they're called Fiat now for a reason.)

-GM's 4.8L made between 285ftlbs to 305ftlbs depending on the application and there were issues with cylinderheads for most of the late 90's early 2000's for most of the Truck V8, but fairly stout engines for their "minor" amount of power.

-Ford's 4.6L V8 made about 293ftlbs and we all know about Ford's downright idiotic spark plug issues on their V8's

Most of the German V8's are either TurboCharged, SuperCharged, and/or not under 5.0L of displacement. They're not bad engines, they just don't fit this category is all.

I'm not even going to waste my time with BMW's V8s because they need the entire engine pulled and partially torn down for a single coolant tube o-ring that you can visually see when you take the covers off, among other BMW typical issues.

So far in simple numbers against 3 Domestic Cast Iron Block V8's used in contemporary SUVs and trucks that MANY people buy, the 2UZ-FE seems to have slightly more oomph AND it has a better track record than most of the other engines. So in terms of apples to apples its looking Toyota here.

You fail to grasp the purpose of a truck purposed V8 vs. a performance built V8, not to mention you seem to want to compare apples to oranges by throwing 5.0L+ motors into the mix and those that have forced induction to prove your point. There's a reason many heavy duty trucks have ridiculously powerful diesel engines but they're not smoking a C63 AMG off the line everyday. Nothing against your high performance experience, I love me some AMG action and they are great engines, but you're talking about a car with an engine built for speed, a transmission geared to get to speed, ect ect; when you can show me a video of a C63 AMG towing a boat I will concede, until then citing performance V8 cars/CUVs is an Apples to Oranges comparison.

 

[nevada]

You V8 4R guys crack me up. Really. There is a guy in this thread who speaks of the "insane amount of torque" Another one posts "that much power from that small of an engine" What are you guys smoking because I want it Let's do some basic arithmetic. 270 HP from a 4.7L is marginally better than 50 hp per liter. I say that's mediocre, unless you are from the 1960s. Then, even if all 320 ft-lbs is delivered at zero RPM (which it is not, just giving you that for effect), you are talking about 320 ft-lbs in a 4000+ lb truck. It is the definition of mediocre.

Bottom line - those that like the 4.7 V8 probably don't have a very good frame of reference. Try and drive a German V8 if you get a chance. Or even another modern Toyota V8 and you will agree. There is a reason the engine reached "its end of life" Plenty of old engines still being made, including the V6, the 4.7 just isn't worthwhile anymore. If I got it for free, I'd take it. Hey, I have nothing against it. But I am so tired of you 4.7 guys trying to turn a square into a circle. Oh, yes, the V6 is even more yawn inducing and boring than the V8. But at least, I don't have a V8 just to tell everyone I have a V8.

Also, to the gentleman who asked if I have driven a V8, I have owned 4 AMGs over the years, and have owned everything from 3 cylinders, I4s, V6s, flat 6s, V8s. Only reason I mention this is to say I have a frame of reference.

so basically you had nothing relevant to add to the discussion, and just wanted to bash the lowly v8. comparing it to anything other than what we are talking about is pointless.
move along.

 

[T4R2014]

You can't really compare a flat-6 Porsche engine with a V8 Toyota truck engine. The European engines are hard to compare. From the same era, there is the X5's 4.4 which is a good engine but not in a comparable vehicle application. It is also known for vacuum leaks. The Mercedes G500's 5.0 makes 288HP and 336TQ, not very far off. Really now, mediocre? I don't even own one.

We should really get back to Pathfinder's.

 

[xxaarraa]

[MENTION=84789]xxaarraa[/MENTION] You're missing the point, you're being purposefully oblivious to the fact that in the sub-5.0L range the 2UZ-FE actually seems to be the better choice in the last decade or two.

-ChryCorp's 4.7L made about 330ftlbs and they weren't really great engines (not that I would expect anything made by them to be, they're called Fiat now for a reason.)

-GM's 4.8L made between 285ftlbs to 305ftlbs depending on the application and there were issues with cylinderheads for most of the late 90's early 2000's for most of the Truck V8, but fairly stout engines for their "minor" amount of power.

-Ford's 4.6L V8 made about 293ftlbs and we all know about Ford's downright idiotic spark plug issues on their V8's

Most of the German V8's are either TurboCharged, SuperCharged, and/or not under 5.0L of displacement. They're not bad engines, they just don't fit this category is all.

I'm not even going to waste my time with BMW's V8s because they need the entire engine pulled and partially torn down for a single coolant tube o-ring that you can visually see when you take the covers off, among other BMW typical issues.

So far in simple numbers against 3 Domestic Cast Iron Block V8's used in contemporary SUVs and trucks that MANY people buy, the 2UZ-FE seems to have slightly more oomph AND it has a better track record than most of the other engines. So in terms of apples to apples its looking Toyota here.

You fail to grasp the purpose of a truck purposed V8 vs. a performance built V8, not to mention you seem to want to compare apples to oranges by throwing 5.0L+ motors into the mix and those that have forced induction to prove your point. There's a reason many heavy duty trucks have ridiculously powerful diesel engines but they're not smoking a C63 AMG off the line everyday. Nothing against your high performance experience, I love me some AMG action and they are great engines, but you're talking about a car with an engine built for speed, a transmission geared to get to speed, ect ect; when you can show me a video of a C63 AMG towing a boat I will concede, until then citing performance V8 cars/CUVs is an Apples to Oranges comparison.

I like how you are making up your own rules to suit your point of view. Whoever said engines need to be naturally aspirated? Whoever said they need to be under 5l? Why suddenly compare against domestics when the domestics haven't produced a decent engine in decades? I evaluate every engine in isolation. Not in its own made up narrow band of 'peers'.

No one is comparing sports car v8s to a truck engine. Read my post again. I was responding to someone who asked if I have driven a v8 by providing background on my credibility. An amg v8 costs almost as much as a whole 4runner, its a silly comparison.

Anyway, you guys can continue to be evangelists of a dead engine. There are fanbois for every category, including a mediocre extinct Toyota engine, I guess.

 

[OVERLAND IN TX]

Many opinions given and taken, and very few worth any....

4runner or Pathfinder

Any year preference? Could I assume that you would want both vehicle s to be around the 04'-08' year range.

With fuel efficiency, reliability, and towing ability as the main factors

Hard List to check all off, with what you are looking for and wanting. I would suggest you give one up or sway to one less.

does anyone any advice

Take it as everyone as one, but very few are worth any. Just like (bad-word inserted here.)

find a vehicle with less than 60k miles for less than $15k, and I have no need for 4WD.

I would suggest towards a ("Late" 07' Nissan Pathfinder 2wd w/ V6 SE) with a few more options for creature comforts.

Fits all your "wants" & "needs."

2wd, check.
< than $15K, check.
< than 60K , check.
(Per Vehicle) Maintenance cost, check.
Reliability (take care of it), check
Requirements for your needs (towing), check.
3 main factors (> than 15mpg, > than reliable, & > than towing needs), check

I'm getting my own light hauler.

Best of luck with your future purchase, a lot of critical thinking to do!

(Hope you buy a Toyota 4runner, they are quite a vehicle.)

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I like how you are making up your own rules to suit your point of view. Whoever said engines need to be naturally aspirated? Whoever said they need to be under 5l? Why suddenly compare against domestics when the domestics haven't produced a decent engine in decades? I evaluate every engine in isolation. Not in its own made up narrow band of 'peers'.

Anyway, you guys can continue to be evangelists of a dead engine. There are fanbois for every category, including a mediocre extinct Toyota engine, I guess.

-Because comparing a forced induction to a naturally aspirated engine is an Apples to Oranges comparison, it serves only to provide an unbalanced and non-linear comparison. Forced Induction provides an advantage over an engine designed as a NA in most mass produced examples (to argue otherwise is to argue against common sense.)

-I chose sub-5.0L engines because most of the engines built above that are typically almost an entire liter above the 4.7L and its competitors. Even in today's age displacement makes a difference, particularly in Naturally Aspirated engines.

-I chose mainly Domestic V8's because we are talking about a V8 designed specifically for TRUCK DUTY, not running the Nuremberg. So far the only engines found in US Market Trucks and SUVs (SUV being defined as Body on Frame Construction, typically based off a truck frame) are typically Domestic and/or Japanese (but few fall under 5.0L)

Your statement of isolation makes no sense whatsoever, you can simplify it to basic Torque per Liter (HP is an inaccurate and fairly superfluous measure of an engine's work output) and torque bands, but this fails to take into account many aspects of a given engine design and intended purpose. Your coveted AMG engines are utter crap compared to what Mercedes builds for their real race cars or even what a tuning shop can build, but that's again an apples to oranges comparison. Anyone can say a Model T's engine is crap compared to a 6.3L AMG engine, its a general comparison.

You can call me a fanboy if you want, but I am not as much defending the engine at this point as I am pointing out your flawed process of assessment and comparison. The engine isn't a the end all be all of Toyota V8's but its hardly mediocre when compared with similar engines.

~

Post Note-

To the OP, I would personally purchase the 4Runner as you could probably have a Limited with 2WD for less than 15k if you shopped around. But a Pathfinder I suppose wouldn't be a bad vehicle, though I would stay with the Body on Frame ones; I don't trust a UniBody for anything but minvan and sedan duty based on experience and knowledge.

 

[Victor]

I bought the V8 so that I can tell everyone that asks it's a V8, I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[CookieRoe]

 

[eds72]

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION], while I appreciate your ability to concisely and respectfully make a point, may I suggest you are wasting your time. If you scan back over this thread you will see numerous posts from V6 and V8 advocates giving sound advice. It is [MENTION=84789]xxaarraa[/MENTION] that turned this thread into a V6 vs V8 war - ironically right after stating it should not become exactly that.

I'm never sure what to think of posters like this. Are they so blinded by their personal opinions that they are unable to see how ridiculous they look, or are they just posting to get under peoples skin? Either way, your message - no matter how sound - will never get through. You are a great source of information on this board, I'd rather see you save your energy for someone more deserving and appreciative of your knowledge.