Towing question/help

[socrates50]

I'm thinking of upgrading from my current camping vehicle (2004 Fleetwwod Tacoma popup) to a Trailmanor Elkmont trailer. I've had no problem towing the popup with my 2007 SR5 V6, but was wondering about the Trailmanor. Dry weight is around 2500 lbs. I have/use an electric brake controller and I'm pretty sure the hitch is factory standard. Any thoughts would be appreciated. We don't do any real long distance towing, probably 200 miles max.

 

[m1kefries]

I don't expect you will have any issues. I have an '07 SR5 V6 and I pull a 7'x14' enclosed trailer with 2 ATV's. I've figured the loaded out weight to be around 3000lbs. I also pull a 20' Hydrasports boat that loads out a little over 4000lbs. Towing capacity on the V6 is rated at 5000lbs, so I'm pretty comfortable towing my boat and trailer. The trailer doesn't seem to put much of a load on the truck, but it grunts a bit when the boat is hooked up.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

I don't expect you will have any issues.

:iagree:

Depending on how it tows you may want to consider a sway control. I suspect you'd really like to have some Firestone or Airlift bags in the rear springs. Link in my signature.

 

[jetboy1975]

I googled the Elkmont and only found one size, a 24' single axle, is that the one? If so, you can do it but need to be careful. The T4R has a short wheelbase which makes it prone to sway and a single axle is only going to compound that problem so some sort of sway control will be a must. Dry weights mean nothing and don't go by what dealers tell you. Plan on adding at least 500lbs for options like AC, water heater, propane tanks etc which are not included then add your camp gear. For comparison my 19' hybrid has a dry weight of 2800lbs but lightly loaded for a family of 4 it is 3800-4000lbs with the water tanks empty.

The dry tongue weight of the Elkmont is listed at 540lbs which is pretty heavy and exceeds the limit of the stock x-member mounted hitch. You'll need to upgrade to the frame mounted weight distributing hitch from the V8and use a WDH system such as the equilizer (with built in sway control).

I've posted before about my experiences towing with my '03 V6. Didn't even notice the pop-up, then upgraded to the hybrid. Well within all towing limits and it handled the weight but the drag resistance from the frontal area was the killer. Matched with the V6s 4 speed it was a struggle on the highway. If you're only going short trips you'll be fine, get the trailer weighed and make sure you are properly equipped.

Happy camping.

 

[galactic_04]

I've towed my brother's rock crawler on my 18ft. Trailer before and it's at least 4k Lbs. It really wasn't bad at all on my V6 4runner. I wouldn't be against towing a trailer like you're looking at. The weight isn't that much, it's just air resistance I'd be looking at.

 

[socrates50]

I googled the Elkmont and only found one size, a 24' single axle, is that the one? If so, you can do it but need to be careful. The T4R has a short wheelbase which makes it prone to sway and a single axle is only going to compound that problem so some sort of sway control will be a must. Dry weights mean nothing and don't go by what dealers tell you. Plan on adding at least 500lbs for options like AC, water heater, propane tanks etc which are not included then add your camp gear. For comparison my 19' hybrid has a dry weight of 2800lbs but lightly loaded for a family of 4 it is 3800-4000lbs with the water tanks empty.

The dry tongue weight of the Elkmont is listed at 540lbs which is pretty heavy and exceeds the limit of the stock x-member mounted hitch. You'll need to upgrade to the frame mounted weight distributing hitch from the V8and use a WDH system such as the equilizer (with built in sway control).

I've posted before about my experiences towing with my '03 V6. Didn't even notice the pop-up, then upgraded to the hybrid. Well within all towing limits and it handled the weight but the drag resistance from the frontal area was the killer. Matched with the V6s 4 speed it was a struggle on the highway. If you're only going short trips you'll be fine, get the trailer weighed and make sure you are properly equipped.

Happy camping.

Yes, the one I'm looking at is the 24' Elkmont, but the Trailmanor website lists the tongue weight at 320 lbs. I do use a sway control already with my popup, but unless I'm missing something the tongue weight seems to be within limits. As for the additional weight with options like A/C and other stuff, I figured on about that much additional, which falls in line with what the website says (502 lbs. with A/C and other items). Thanks for the information.

 

[jetboy1975]

Personally I think that's a lot of trailer for a single axle and I would suspect that tongue weight to be much higher. For example you can add close to 100lbs just for the propane tanks when added. It looks like most options would sit ahead of the axle as well. Do you plan on doing much dry camping where you'd need to fill the tanks? If so where do they sit.

When I looked up the specs I came across this review;

We bought one of those based on the advertised weight. Guess what...it is NOT so. The trailer weighs in at 3540 lb on a public truck scale, and the tongue weight is nowhere near the advertised 320 lb. It is much more. The trailer was delivered with the furnace hooked to gas and electric but with no duct work completed. The battery wires were not fused as called for in the schematic, and the interior quality on a scale of 1 to 10 is about 5. But the bed is nice. TrailManor has a LONG way to go. I have so many conflicting numbers on the weight of the unit from the dealers information, the manufactorers information and the information supplied on the title none are the same. One spec sheet states that "Dry weight Standard Equipment 2498 lb, with a list of all the standard equipment". The title states "Shipping weight 2733 and GVWR 4230". The brochure gives a dry weight of 2498 lb with a load factor of 1250 lb. Public truch scale gives the total weight (as picked up at dealer) as 3540 lb with a tongue weight of 600 lb.

I spend a lot of time on RV forums and constantly see people burned by dealers who say "you'll be fine, no problem". Get it weighed before you sign.

 

[webby]

That Elkmont looks like a nice trailer, but personally, I wouldn't want a TT of that size and weight with a single axle, due to the safety factor. We also prefer a TT with a slide-out for additional usable space.

We are going to buy a TT by Spring this year to tow with our 2009 T4R V6, and are seriously considering the R-Vision line of lightweight trailers, specifically the R-Vision Trail Sport Model TS25S. The mfg. listed dry weight is 3548 lbs. Spec sheet lists the hitch weight at 280 lbs. Even with adding 500 lbs to the dry weight as some have suggested, that still puts me at about 4000 lbs, and I am comfortable with that. Besides, our usage will be to tow the TT from our hot desert location up to 7700' to an RV park for the summer, and then back down again in the Fall. Maybe once or twice we might tow it on a short trip, no more.

R-Vision has other lighter weight models you all might take a peek at. Here is a link.
R-Vision Recreational Vehicles - Lightweight Travel Trailers and Fifth Wheels
and here:
http://rvisiontowables.com/PDFs/Trail-Sport.pdf
They have several lines besides the Sport line, but that is the line that we like.

The least expensive place I have found to buy new TT's is rvwholesalers.com, and we are thinking about ordering ours from them

Good camping to you!

 

[CAD-Man]

I'm thinking of upgrading from my current camping vehicle (2004 Fleetwwod Tacoma popup) to a Trailmanor Elkmont trailer. I've had no problem towing the popup with my 2007 SR5 V6, but was wondering about the Trailmanor. Dry weight is around 2500 lbs. I have/use an electric brake controller and I'm pretty sure the hitch is factory standard. Any thoughts would be appreciated. We don't do any real long distance towing, probably 200 miles max.

If I were in your shoes I would look at the Jayco line of lite and ultra-lite trailers. After towing a 19 foot Fleetwood Lite trailer in the late 90's with a Chevy S10 Blazer, I will never tow a full size trailer with a Mid-size SUV. I changed to full size pickup's after having the tail wag the dog (trailer pushing the tow vehicle around). If you insist in towing a full size trailer then spend the money on this little item and you should not have to worry to much about the wagging problem. Trailer Sway Elimination Guaranteed - Hensley® the ONLY trailer hitch guaranteed to totally eliminate trailer sway. I used one of these systems for 3 years well worth the money. You may look at the price and say this guy is crazy, just look at it this way, how much fun is it going to be when an 18 wheeler passes you doing 80 and pushes that full size trailer up the rear end of your 4Runner.

Cad-Man

 

[Absolute]

I am not sure about the V6 but I have a V8 and I have towed multiple jeeps on a 16' trailer with no trailer break. Max weight I have towed is ~ 9000LBS. I think the breaking system between the v8 and v6 is relatively the same and I have never used trailer brakes. The 4runners are engineered very well in just about every aspect.
I did so some research though on the v6 and your tow limit is rated at about 5000lbs for the v6 so you should not have a problem.

 

[socrates50]

Hitch question

Okay, here's another question. I've looked at various posts/blogs and this is what I see. The standard hitch on the V6 was attached to the crossmember in the rear of the vehicle, and apparently the little "cutouts" on the bumper were for that. The V8, however, used a "frame-mounted" hitch which was attached to the frame rails. I've looked at mine, and it looks like an after-market one (or the V8 one), as it is attached to the frame rails with 6 bolts, two in the rear and one more forward. Am I correct in this, and if so, does this mean I have the heavier duty V8 type hitch and could therefore use a weight distributing hitch if needed? The hitch I have is also a tubular steel type, but I don't know what the V6 standard one looked like. I appreciate everyone's help on this.

 

[Koz]

I am not sure about the V6 but I have a V8 and I have towed multiple jeeps on a 16' trailer with no trailer break. Max weight I have towed is ~ 9000LBS. I think the breaking system between the v8 and v6 is relatively the same and I have never used trailer brakes. The 4runners are engineered very well in just about every aspect.
I did so some research though on the v6 and your tow limit is rated at about 5000lbs for the v6 so you should not have a problem.

ANYTHING over 2K lbs MUST have trailer brakes. If you towed 9K lbs without trailer brakes, you're LUCKY to be alive!

Koz

 

[bondebond]

ANYTHING over 2K lbs MUST have trailer brakes. If you towed 9K lbs without trailer brakes, you LUCKY to be alive!

Koz

Depends on your state laws, but agreed. I would NOT want to be in front of that setup during an emergency stopping situation when you're pulling 9k of trailer with no trailer brakes.

I have the V8 with the frame mounted factory hitch, and 5k is the max for it, even, without adding in a WDH setup (standard upper limit of Class III hitch, even if the hitch could handle more).
My pop-up is spec'ed out at around 350 pounds tongue weight by the mfg, but that's before the nearly 150 pounds of (2) LP tanks and a Group 31 battery. So I'm right at the 500 pounds tongue max on the hitch. You have to factor in all of the math.

 

[CAD-Man]

Depends on your state laws, but agreed. I would NOT want to be in front of that setup during an emergency stopping situation when you're pulling 9k of trailer with no trailer brakes.

I have the V8 with the frame mounted factory hitch, and 5k is the max for it, even, without adding in a WDH setup (standard upper limit of Class III hitch, even if the hitch could handle more).
My pop-up is spec'ed out at around 350 pounds tongue weight by the mfg, but that's before the nearly 150 pounds of (2) LP tanks and a Group 31 battery. So I'm right at the 500 pounds tongue max on the hitch. You have to factor in all of the math.

I just checked my 2008 4runner V8 and found the hitch label stating 7300GVW rating and 730lb Tounge weight. Oners manual states 7000lbs and 700lb tounge weight.

CAD-Man

 

[Koz]

Depends on your state laws, but agreed. I would NOT want to be in front of that setup during an emergency stopping situation when you're pulling 9k of trailer with no trailer brakes.

I have the V8 with the frame mounted factory hitch, and 5k is the max for it, even, without adding in a WDH setup (standard upper limit of Class III hitch, even if the hitch could handle more).
My pop-up is spec'ed out at around 350 pounds tongue weight by the mfg, but that's before the nearly 150 pounds of (2) LP tanks and a Group 31 battery. So I'm right at the 500 pounds tongue max on the hitch. You have to factor in all of the math.

The rule of thumb (in the towing world) is 2K lbs. In NJ, ALL trailers must have brakes controlled by the tow vehicle.

Koz

 

[Koz]

I just checked my 2008 4runner V8 and found the hitch label stating 7300GVW rating and 730lb Tounge weight. Oners manual states 7000lbs and 700lb tounge weight.

CAD-Man

7300 lbs for 2WD - 7000 lbs for 4WD. If you use a WD device the tounge weight is increased to just over 1K lbs.

Koz

 

[bondebond]

I just checked my 2008 4runner V8 and found the hitch label stating 7300GVW rating and 730lb Tounge weight. Oners manual states 7000lbs and 700lb tounge weight.

CAD-Man

Check the verbiage used, and I quote the Owners Manual:
Towing capacity:
For weight carrying hitch
2268 kg (5000 lb.)
Also for weight distributing hitch
(4.7 L V8 [2UZ−FE] engine only)
Two−wheel drive models
3311 kg (7300 lb.)
Four−wheel drive models
3175 kg (7000 lb.)

The WDH is an option, not the factory installed (weight carrying) hitch on the V8. I even confirmed this by looking at the factory-applied label on my hitch and it lists out 5,000 lb. capacity with a 500 lb. limit tongue weight. The label was on the right side of the hitch armature.

The 7.3k rating would be true if you do have a WDH installed. 5000lb. is the categorical limit of Class III hitches, which is what comes on the runner. As shown above, if you do install a WDH, the vehicle limit is 7.3k or 7.0k depending on configuration.

 

[CAD-Man]

Check the verbiage used, and I quote the Owners Manual:
Towing capacity:
For weight carrying hitch
2268 kg (5000 lb.)
Also for weight distributing hitch
(4.7 L V8 [2UZ−FE] engine only)
Two−wheel drive models
3311 kg (7300 lb.)
Four−wheel drive models
3175 kg (7000 lb.)

The WDH is an option, not the factory installed (weight carrying) hitch on the V8. I even confirmed this by looking at the factory-applied label on my hitch and it lists out 5,000 lb. capacity with a 500 lb. limit tongue weight. The label was on the right side of the hitch armature.

The 7.3k rating would be true if you do have a WDH installed. 5000lb. is the categorical limit of Class III hitches, which is what comes on the runner. As shown above, if you do install a WDH, the vehicle limit is 7.3k or 7.0k depending on configuration.

I agree with your quote from the owner’s manual. Also the sticker you refer to on the right hand side of the hitch, on my 4Runner states 7300 and 730 pounds, It appears is missing a notation that this is when using a WDH appliance. I'm not sure if you understand what a weight distribution hitch is, then again maybe you do. The name Weight Distribution Hitch refers to an "appliance" that is inserted into a standard Class III, Class IV or Class V Receiver (hitch). Through the use of torsion bars it shifts a percentage of the Tongue and Overall trailer weight to the front axle. This shift in weight is controlled by the spring action of torsion bars, more loading of the torsion bars the more weight is shifted forward the lessening of the load shifts it to the rear axle. Years ago when the first WDH's came out, They did a demo using an Oldsmobile Toronado, which was the first Front Wheel Car made in the US after 1937, they removed the rear wheels and towed a Large Boat as well as an Airstream trailer using a WDH attached to a Class III hitch. This demo was used to show how the WDH could transfer weight to both axles of the tow vehicle. And yes I'm old enough to remember the commercial sometime in the late sixties.

CAD-Man

 

[socrates50]

Back on track

I hate to put an end to everyone's digressions off my original question asking for help in determining if I did indeed have the "V8" hitch on my "V6" (I have since ascertained that I do have a frame mounted hitch). Anyway we have decided to go with a Heartland EDGE M21 TT for our "upgrade."

I will say that all of you do an excellent job in contributing to a novice's paranoia.

 

[jetboy1975]

That looks like a smarter, safer option. Very nice. You'll still want the WD hitch and sway control.