Towing

[genghis]

Hey Everyone,

I am looking to purchase an SUV for towing a 5x8 cargo trailer that would be at most 2,000 pounds. I am a safety nut who requires 4wd and side airbags. I was wondering what everyone thought about the following comparisons:

Honda Pilot
Chevy Tahoe
4runner v6
4runner v8

which do you think is most suitable to my needs? Does the 4runner v6 have the power I need? Without a trailer, the toyotas and hondas are safer, stronger built cars, but when you throw a trailer on the back, everything changes..

THanks for your help!

 

[psychoklr]

The V6 would be fine for that but the V8 is always better Seriously though for your needs the V6 would be just fine and would out perform the Pilot & the Tahoe no problem.

 

[Northof49]

For towing 2,000lbs, a V6 4Runner is 10000% safe......they're rated at 5,000lbs, so a 3,000lb grace margin is VERY generous. Heck you could probably pull that with a Camry lol

 

[abin]

If you use towing very often, V8 would be your first choice.
Price should not be an issue.

 

[genghis]

If you use towing very often, V8 would be your first choice.
Price should not be an issue.

indeed. we'll be driving all over the country; towing 5 or 6 hours a day 100 days in the next year.

what advantages will the v8 have over the v6? better handling (because it's more powerful) and less strain on the vehicle?

 

[peter78]

what advantages will the v8 have over the v6? better handling (because it's more powerful) and less strain on the vehicle?

Torque..... That is what you get with the V8.

I like your choices, initially the Honda Pilot sounds good, great engine, lots of room. Of course it has no frame, the three other choices have a frame. One thing about the Honda though is Honda requires you to have a engine and transmission cooler when you tow.

I have a old 4Runner with a small 182 HP V6 and it tows my 2,100 pound camper really well. Given your requirements, I would really look at a 4Runner V6. To me a good compromise of mileage, power and towing ability. Of course the V8 has fallen a bit in price, so maybe getting that and taking in to account the extra price of gas.

It should be noted if you get a 4Runner the V6 you can use 4WD or 2WD, but in the V8 you stay in 4WD all the time. On possiblity is getting a V8 2WD 4Runner. You get the torque and a bit better mileage, not quite as good as the V6 though.

By the way, I usually get 21 + MPG on the highway, but when I tow my 2,100 pound camper I get 16 MPG. So figure on about a 5 MPG drop in gas mileage with your trailer.

 

[>MR2turbo4evr<]

I would get a V8 4Runner mainly because of its full-time 4WD system, the torque and the fact that it comes with a transmission cooler. I towed a 2000lb camper this year for 2500 miles and I really liked how the 4Runner performed. The 2UZ-FE is an amazing engine. It is very torquey and soooo smooth. The 4Runner is the best vehicle I've ever driven. You won't regret getting one.

 

[genghis]

well, price is certainly a factor, and since we are only towing >2000lbs, it seems like the v6 would do the job. after all, we're getting a 2003 or 2004, which would be 235 or 245 HP, i believe.

safety question, though: isn't it true that vehicle length and weight is important in towing stability? a tahoe is longer and 1000 lbs heavier. would that make it a safer towing vehicle?

the reason i ask is because i had a terrible wreck towing a 5x8 this summer. we swerved on the highway and lost control. 2000lb. trailer load behind us didn't help, and we rolled several times as the trailer was ripped from our vehicle and thrown 30 feet into the desert.

safe to say, we want to make sure we've got a lot of vehicle stability!

 

[Northof49]

safety question, though: isn't it true that vehicle length and weight is important in towing stability? a tahoe is longer and 1000 lbs heavier. would that make it a safer towing vehicle?

Well yes, but there is still such a thing as overkill......in which catagory even a 4Runner already fits. Using only this logic, you should buy a crew-cab longbox duelly F-350 to tow this 2,000lb trailer.....

 

[>MR2turbo4evr<]

Well yes, but there is still such a thing as overkill......in which catagory even a 4Runner already fits. Using only this logic, you should buy a crew-cab longbox duelly F-350 to tow this 2,000lb trailer.....

exactly. Plus the 4Runner has waaaaayyyyyyy better handling which makes it safer in a way too. And trust me, once you've driven both vehicles you're gonna buy the 4Runner. guaranteed! The 4Runner drives soo much better, and the interior is not even comparable....

 

[RunnerUp]

and again, using that logic, what would you even consider a honda for? honda's arent as safe as toyota's are and i have rolled a 4runner multiple times before at high speed. i have since owned 2 4runners and have enjoyed them both alot. a tahoe is going to drop the tranny around 75k, esp. when you are towing. i tow a 12' "toy trailer" that gets pretty well loaded up sometimes, as long as you know how to tow, and have some common sense, you should be fine. i dont think you need a v8 as its only 2k and a tahoe is def. over kill, but wouldnt a v8 4runner and the tahoe tow around the same weight? go with toyota, as someone who has been in a rollover, you will appreciate the extreme safety and reliability of 4runners

on a side note, when i was 16 my friend and i rolled his 2nd gen 4runner on a dirt road, did one complete roll, smashed the front 3 windows and the battery blew up, but it was still running and we went on to drive 45 miles back home, truck was totalled, but it got us where we needed to be, even though it might not have been legal/safe to do so.... now just to find the pictures of those trucks so you know what im talking about

 

[genghis]

and again, using that logic, what would you even consider a honda for? honda's arent as safe as toyota's are and i have rolled a 4runner multiple times before at high speed.

well the only reason we're considering a Honda is because the pilot has better rollover and front-impact ratings than the 4runner according to the NHTSA ratings. but in the context of towing a trailer, all safety concerns change, because part of being safe on the road is avoiding the accidents to begin with. and a vehicle better suited to tow would then likely be safer.

so really, while entertaining the Pilot still, it pretty much has gotten down to tahoe vs. 4runner.

thanks for all of the comments and advice! keep it coming!

 

[RunnerUp]

hmmm... chevy vs. toyota....

no contest, do i really need to get into this?

now you should think of how long you want to have this vehicle for, if you plan on upgrading in a couple years, you might be able to get by with the tahoe. if you plan on keeping it, you need the 4runner. it will run 4ever. besides, fit and finish is no comparison. and then there is the issue of gas, you said yourself that price was an issue, a v6 4runner, or a v8 tahoe, i think the runner will get much better gas mileage. and then there is the issue of reliability, toyota wins again. and last but not least, chevy is about to change the body of the tahoe, the 4th gen 4runners just came out, so... do you want an old body style tahoe, or a new body style 4runner? what do you see in the chevy, i would like to know so i can answer your questions better and help you get into a vehicle that you need/want

 

[peter78]

safety question, though: isn't it true that vehicle length and weight is important in towing stability? a tahoe is longer and 1000 lbs heavier. would that make it a safer towing vehicle?

I would think a bigger longer vehicle would be better in towing. Especially if I was towing a big camper, maybe 6,000 pounds or so.

If your buying used, a Chevy will have more depreciation, which is good for the buyer. Of course the concern of most of us here is the Chevy holding up.

It looks like the 2002 Tahoe and earlier have a safety conern, see link.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/


Edit: The link did not go to the Chevy, so click on the make and model for the results, you may want to check out the 4Runner too.

 

[Gromulus]

Small Trailer Towing

Hi genghis and welcome to the forum. I read your posts at the Honda Pilot forum and was the one who recommended you look at a 4Runner.

I heavily compared the 4Runner and Pilot when I was in the market back in 04. (A search on either foums, especially the Pilot forum goes through my experiences and observations). Needless to say, I went with the 4Runner and never had one regret. We tow a hardsided A-frame camper with our vehicle it pulls it like it isn't even there. My Chalet only weighs about 2700# loaded but it does have a tongue weight of 500# ( ouch, over the recommended 10 - 15%!

Aside from the heavy tongue weight (which is in excess of the 350# I believe the Pilolt specs), either a Pilot or 4Runner should be able to pull this weight. The 3500# limit of the Pilot sounds good until you start adding payload and occupants and then, of course, the capacity decreases rapidly.

While a 2000# trailer isn't much of a load, I personelly was concerend about the Pilot's tranny. Honda has been having transmission problesm with it's 5 spedd units across the Honda and Acura lines for the passed few years. I owned an Acoord in the past and while generally a very reliable vehicle, I did have to replace the transmisison at 60,000 miles. You would have to install tranny and power steering coolers (in order not to void the warranty) on the Pilot as well as a hitch receiver. These are standard on the 4Runner as well as the 7-pin connection and electric brake hook-ups (unless Toyota changes this in '06). Being a body-on-frame RWD based vehicle, the 4Runner would make a better tow vehicle than a unibody FWD based Pilot - regardless of AWD, 4WD, etc. Also, IMHO (as a consumer and supplier to both Toyota and Honda), Toyota in general are better built than Hondas and the 4Runner in particular is a better built vehicle than the Pilot. Nothing against the Pilot (which I would choose over countless other crossover SUVS), but the 4Runner is a tighter, more solid vehicle. Not as many issues with rattling, road noise and sagging, cracking leather seats!

I agree that a longer wheel based vehicle is always a better tow vehicle for longer trailers, but this is a moot point with a small 5' x 8' trailer. Our Chalet is 18 1/2' and we have no problems with our 4Runner. Now if I was pulling a 25'+ trailer, than a longer WB SUV or HD pickup would be my preference. The 4Runner is a great vehicle and the V8 models even have greater towing capacities than the larger Sequoia and Landcrusiers!

Either the 6 or 8 cylinder 4Runners would suffice for your small trailer. Many opt for the V8 since the cost and fuel mileage penalties are relatively small.

I think the Tahoe is overkill for your needs and IMO the decresed fuel mileage and reliability issues outweigh any possible advantages. The Envoy/Trailblazer mid-size SUVs are more appropriate to compare to the 4Runner. Although having driven both, I would also take the Tahoe/Yukon over these other offerings (more secure handling and "feel").

Get out to the dealers and test drive any and all of the vehicles you are interested in. While you won't be towing during a test drive, you may be surprised as to your observations.

 

[OUTRNNR]

genghis,

I commend you for putting safety first, and in your case its easy to see why you want the safest vehicle available.

In my opinion, the 4Runner V8 would be your best choice. 2000 lbs will be a breeze with this vehicle, as its rated to tow 7000 lbs. You won't even know the trailer is there with the engine and brakes on this vehicle. However, the V6 would suit your needs just fine too.

As far as safety goes, as you probably know, all 4runners come standard with the "Star Safety system" Which include the following:

Dual stage driver and passenger front airbags
Driver and Passenger Side airbags
First and Second Row Roll-Sensing Curtain Airbags
Vehicle Stability Control (VSC)
Traction Control (TRAC)
4 Channel ABS with Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD)

I'm not sure what all safety options the Pilot has, but this is a substantial amount of safety features that can't even be close to being matched by the Tahoe.

If you want an arguement over the Pilot, allow me to help:

1) The V6 4Runner has more torque (266 lb-ft vs. 240 lb-ft) than the Pilot, better for towing

2) All 4Runners come standard with a "Towing Package" including hitch and harness wiring, the Pilot doesn't

3) 4Runner has ~3 gal larger gas tank allowing for longer trips between fuel stops. Both vehicles are rated for the same EPA fuel economy.

4) V6 4Runner is rated at 5000 lbs towing, Pilot is 4500 lbs.

5) The 4runner is a little longer and heavier than the Pilot. This is better for towing as well.

6) The Pilot is 4 wheel independent suspension with uni-body construction. The 4runner is body-on-frame construction. While independent suspension may handle better, it is NOT better for towing, creating more wear on less robust drivetrain components. Many people agree that a solid rear axle is the best choice for towing. Also, fully independent suspension and lack of frame naturally raises the center of gravity of the vehicle (all other things being constant) making it more prone to rollover.

I think I made a pretty good arguement for the 4runner here. The prices are very comparable depending on what trim level and options you would like.

Go 4Runner!!!

 

[4or2wheels]

With all that towing your going to do I'd go for a V8 just for the hell of it. If you get a bigger/heavier trailier at some time in the future your covered plus the added torque will help when traversing those steep inclines when you have a full load.

 

[pat161]

I am in favor of the Toyota but I think the Tahoe is getting a bad rap here. My friend has an 03 Yukon XLT w/ the 5.3 liter and it is a very nice truck. As far as the interior goes his Yukon is just as nice as any 4Runner with more comfortable seats, IMO and has plenty of nice options. On the highway the truck rides fantastic and has gobs of power, yet still manages to average around 16mpg, which is pretty good. This Yukon has over 80k and has never had a problem and he traded a 99 Suburban with over 220k on a 5.7 and it was also fairly reliable. Personally I would buy the Runner, but I would take the Tahoe over the Pilot anyday.

 

[GYoter]

I tow my snowmobiles with a 18' long trailer, probably around 3000-3500 pounds loaded and have never had a single problem. The V8 tows thru the mountains without breaking a sweat. Under emergency braking on slushy conditions i never even slid a little bit, it scared the hell out of me but still stopped like the trailer wasnt attached. You might consider the sport edition as it has larger front brakes. I would think with a 2000# trailer either engine would be fine, but i am partial to the V8.

Here's some main reasons to get the runner
1. reliability/longevity
2. safety
3. mileage

The chevys are nice, comfortable and powerful, but you will like the runner better and it will last you forever. Forget about the honda.

 

[peter78]

Re: Small Trailer Towing

You would have to install tranny and power steering coolers (in order not to void the warranty) on the Pilot as well as a hitch receiver.

One thing about the Honda though is Honda requires you to have a engine and transmission cooler when you tow.

I stand corrected. My Parents have a Honda and I knew it required a transmission cooler and one other cooler before you could use a hitch. I see now it is the steering cooler and not the engine cooler.

I also see different wieghts for the Honda to tow on this forum. I know they have two wieght limits, one with a boat and one with a regular trailer. I guess the theory is the boat has better wind resistance.