Toyota Access Pricing CANADA

[Kmvreter]

Thanks...

Glad to hear you treat everyone alike. If customers get the same info that their friends and relatives get when they shop around then they won't feel ripped. In that case the only reason to walk is if the competition has better value (hard to beat Toyota products and pricing in comparison) or if the stealer is arrogant.
Now about WalMart... that is another thread I don't even want to start!

 

[GRIMACE]

Northof49,

Thank you for responding to this thread. Its good that we get some feedback from the other side.

May I ask why BC dealers can't haggle on the price and dealers in Ontario can? As you know, I have read a few articles (Globe and Mail) stating that Toyota has abandoned its one price tactics. All that seems to have changed is that Toyota lists everything at MRSP. Whats the difference? Thanks in advance if you can help me out.

Grimace

That's cool, like I said, if you find a dealer that is willing to discount, more power to you!

I kinda come from the opposite side of the fence tho....working at a Toyota store in BC. You'd (generally) have a much harder time finding a dealer that dicounts here, as opposed to Ontario we've heard.

At our dealership, we don't give any discounts, except factory and regionally endorsed ones. Interestingly enough, everyone in sales here agrees that we can count on 1 hand the number of people who've actually walked out because of it in the 2+ years that Access has been around. Strangely, all of our previous sales records have been beaten since!

The only shitty thing I've found, as a salesman, is that I can't give any "better deal" to my friends or long-term customers. That in mind, you could shop at Wal-Mart for 40 years and never get anymore discount than the guy who walks in for the first time, right?

 

[GRIMACE]

Re: Thanks...

G.
Now about WalMart... that is another thread I don't even want to start!

This is how I see it. The thing about Walmart, even though I dislike them alot, is that their pricing is quite competitive nationally. Whereas with toyota, how can a 4runner in BC be so much more expensive than in Ontario?They all come from the same port in Richmond. You'd expect the price to more expensive back east due to shipping costs.

As well, Walmart's pricing poilcy is ensured by its competition such as Zellers, Superstore and etc. You can shop around for the best price and the stores as metioned offer a price match guarantees should you find it cheaper elsewhere. If you want a toyota though, you can't go to another store to compare prices unless I want to buy used. It just doesn't seem fair.

 

[pnokeo]

I might be wrong, but I thought pricing policies like "Access Pricing" is against the law.

Isn't this like price fixing or collusion for consumers in B.C., Canada?

For example, would it be fair if all gas stations in B.C., Canada decided to sell gas @$1.00 per litre.

Please, someone who knows a lttle about business law shed some light on this topic?

:soapbox:

 

[Northof49]

Northof49,

Thank you for responding to this thread. Its good that we get some feedback from the other side.

May I ask why BC dealers can't haggle on the price and dealers in Ontario can? As you know, I have read a few articles (Globe and Mail) stating that Toyota has abandoned its one price tactics. All that seems to have changed is that Toyota lists everything at MRSP. Whats the difference? Thanks in advance if you can help me out.

Grimace

Ok, I'll try to clear this up a bit. It's not that dealers "can't" discount prices....as evidenced by the discount that another member above recieved. Toyota does not forbid dealer from discounting, as that is price fixing. It says right on the website that "dealers are free to set their own prices." (I think that came up earlier in this thread as well)

Now, since dealers are allowed to discount, they are also allowed not to discount. Basically, what Toyota would like to eliminate is you and your neighbor buying the same truck, but one of you "got a better deal," because you negotiate better, bought an in-stock vehicle, whatever the case may be.

So, why the differences between zones? That ones really in the air. Basically, it just looks like a higher percentage of BC dealers (for example) are not willing to discount. Why are the Ontario guys (for example) possibly giving more discounts? Likely to be competitive with the huge domestic segment over there. Since dealers are free to discount, if a few dealers in an area start doing it, it puts those selling at MSRP at a disadvantage.....so guess what happens?

This doesn't mean, however, that a new vehicle in ON can be had any cheaper that one in BC, as there are obviously still a large number of ON dealers selling at full-pop.

 

[Northof49]

I might be wrong, but I thought pricing policies like "Access Pricing" is against the law.

Isn't this like price fixing or collusion for consumers in B.C., Canada?

For example, would it be fair if all gas stations in B.C., Canada decided to sell gas @$1.00 per litre.

Please, someone who knows a lttle about business law shed some light on this topic?

:soapbox:

Access Pricing is gone, now they sell at MSRP.....that fixes any of these possible issues

 

[GRIMACE]

Northof49 ,

I'm going ito test drive a Tacoma today.
You stated "dealers are allowed to discount, they are also allowed not to discount". I'm going striaght to the point now. If I got my dealer up here to give me a deal( higlhy unlikley), how's does Toyota to enforce its MSRP policy? Is Toyota going to penalize dealership? Is the salesman going to lose his job? Can you clarify this for me? Whats to stop the dealership from making a deal if they are allowed to sell below MSRP?

I might be going out of my way by saying this There are a number of BC guys here and the other boards who are looking for a new vehicle in the near future. If we can find salesman or dealer
who is willing to deal, they could stand to do quite well. The internet is quite powerful and word travels fas.t

Ok, I'll try to clear this up a bit. It's not that dealers "can't" discount prices....as evidenced by the discount that another member above recieved. Toyota does not forbid dealer from discounting, as that is price fixing. It says right on the website that "dealers are free to set their own prices." (I think that came up earlier in this thread as well)

Now, since dealers are allowed to discount, they are also allowed not to discount. Basically, what Toyota would like to eliminate is you and your neighbor buying the same truck, but one of you "got a better deal," because you negotiate better, bought an in-stock vehicle, whatever the case may be.

 

[Kmvreter]

Buy in Ontario...

Grimace,
Sounds like the makings of the highest dollar value group buy I've come across! Get the boys together, put your order in Ontario (I'm sure I've got the stealer/dealer for you) and ship a full car carrier back west. This would still probably be cheaper than a local buy. Better yet if you can grab them at the port as they come off the boat (prep might be an issue). Toyota may not like it.
We have independent "domestic" fleet car dealers that buy in volume locally and ship into the N.E. states. They make money depending on the dollar exchange and still cover their shipping costs. The car companies tried to shut them down but they won in court. There must be a profit there. Got to love free enterprise!

 

[pnokeo]

There are a number of BC guys here and the other boards who are looking for a new vehicle in the near future. If we can find salesman or dealer
who is willing to deal, they could stand to do quite well. The internet is quite powerful and word travels fas.t [/B]

:yesyes: Count me in!

 

[Northof49]

Northof49 ,

I'm going ito test drive a Tacoma today.
You stated "dealers are allowed to discount, they are also allowed not to discount". I'm going striaght to the point now. If I got my dealer up here to give me a deal( higlhy unlikley), how's does Toyota to enforce its MSRP policy? Is Toyota going to penalize dealership? Is the salesman going to lose his job? Can you clarify this for me? Whats to stop the dealership from making a deal if they are allowed to sell below MSRP?

That's the tricky part. The best explanation is that once that one dealer discounts, it puts all those not discounting at a disadvantage. At that point we're on the brink of falling right back to the old system of everyone discounting, and you phone up dealers seeing who will give the MOST discount.

The idea is that if everyone is equal price-wise, you will purchase at the the dealer closest/most convienient to you and have a much less stressful and difficult sales experience. If you CAN get a vehicle for below MSRP, don't worry, you won't be getting anyone fired or dealerships shut down. Now, our dealership for example does not discount (beyond factory/regional authourized) to anyone; that's what make it fair.

Don't get me wrong here guys, I'm not saying Access is the car purchasing Bible you must follow, or even agree with......just trying to give some insight and point-of-view

 

[Northof49]

Also, to those looking for discounts on near-new vehicles, don't forget about DEMO models! Demonstrator vehicles usually have less than 15,000 kms on them and are very well-maintained. They also qualify for all NEW vehicle leasing/financing programs/rates at discounted prices.

 

[pnokeo]

Access Pricing is gone, now they sell at MSRP.....that fixes any of these possible issues

If every dealer sells at MRSP isn't that still collusion?

It's like all dealership owners getting together making a private agreement not give any discounts and just sell at MRSP!

And since the consumer wants to own a Toyota product then it's a like it or lump it situation.




BTW I'don't know if buying out of Province is a good idea in case warranty work(TSB) is required. I'm not sure if a dealer would be too accomodating if they found out vehicle bought out of town.

 

[Northof49]

If every dealer sells at MRSP isn't that still collusion?

Nope, that's where the (uh oh) Wal-Mart or Safeway analogy comes into play. Sure, Wal-Mart could sell you an item cheaper than the Wal-Mart down the street, but they won't because suggested retail prices have been researched and ok'd.

So basically if you ask a dealer if they are allowed to discount, the answer will likely be along the lines of, "Yes, but we feel that the price is fair, so we don't." And that's perfectly legit. Anyone can go on toyota.ca and price out their vehicle just as the dealer can, no hidden costs.

 

[pnokeo]

Nope, that's where the (uh oh) Wal-Mart or Safeway analogy comes into play. Sure, Wal-Mart could sell you an item cheaper than the Wal-Mart down the street, but they won't because suggested retail prices have been researched and ok'd.

So basically if you ask a dealer if they are allowed to discount, the answer will likely be along the lines of, "Yes, but we feel that the price is fair, so we don't." And that's perfectly legit. Anyone can go on toyota.ca and price out their vehicle just as the dealer can, no hidden costs.

Now I get your point.

:dammit:

 

[DaveS]

Ok - here is a sample of what Canadian dealer invoice on the 04s was a short while back just so you know how much we are talking about - add about 1800 to these for PDI, fuel tax etc

V6 SR5 $35,495

V8 Ltd 45,952

I was looking at 700 over any of these invoice prices for a new (not demo) 2004 in August and I got a pick of colour etc.

On average the margin is 4-5k before taxes - no wonder nobody wants to shift away from this arrangement.

 

[Northof49]

Ok, that's fine and good, but it's really not THAT much better deal than any old BC guy could get without haggling at all.....

MSRP on 2004 Limited V8 =

$50,920
- 2000 factory cash back
- 380 less freight/PDI/air (you're taxed on top of that in ON, so I'm counting it here)
______________

$48,540 = About $1800 difference, not anywhere near 4-5K.


Did you finance or pay cash DaveS?

 

[pnokeo]

Ok, that's fine and good, but it's really not THAT much better deal than any old BC guy could get without haggling at all.....

MSRP on 2004 Limited V8 =

$50,920
- 2000 factory cash back
- 380 less freight/PDI/air (you're taxed on top of that in ON, so I'm counting it here)
______________

$48,540 = About $1800 difference, not anywhere near 4-5K.


Did you finance or pay cash DaveS?

Hi Northof49,

Do know the '05 V8 Ltd (no third row option) MRSP yet?

What are my chances in GVRD, B.C. of getting $2000 off list plus PDI&Freight+Taxes for an '05 like the above?

BTW which I think is reasonable!

Thanks!:

 

[Northof49]

Hi Northof49,

Do know the '05 V8 Ltd (no third row option) MRSP yet?

What are my chances in GVRD, B.C. of getting $2000 off list plus PDI&Freight+Taxes for an '05 like the above?

BTW which I think is reasonable!

Thanks!:

The pricing for 2005 V8's isn't on toyota.ca yet, so we're still in the dark just like everyone else I don't think we've even got any dealer ordering info yet, just V6's.

The above cash back is for 2004 models only, the chances of getting that discount on a 2005 is not good, to be blunt.

I *might* be switching for a 2005 Ltd. V8 when they become available, so I'll keep you guys posted on new info.....drove some 05 Tundras with the new 282hp motor and it is NICE


Just to make it clear to everyone, I didn't come on here planning to defend, promote or push the Access program in anyway. I have fun sharing whatever info I might have, and clearing up misconceptions where possible. HOWEVER, I don't have anything resembling a short-list of of dealers who discount, or a method to make dealers discount. In my opinion, Access is a painless way to to buy a new car at a fair price, but that's just that - my opinion.

 

[pnokeo]

Hi Northof49,

Yes, please keep us up to date!

:

 

[DaveS]

Ok, that's fine and good, but it's really not THAT much better deal than any old BC guy could get without haggling at all.....

MSRP on 2004 Limited V8 =

$50,920
- 2000 factory cash back
- 380 less freight/PDI/air (you're taxed on top of that in ON, so I'm counting it here)
______________

$48,540 = About $1800 difference, not anywhere near 4-5K.


Did you finance or pay cash DaveS?

This was before the cash backs were available - I paid part cash part finance - but the price was quoted regardless of how I financed. I just checked the quotes now on the site (you pay once but you can look back later to see if the deal is sweetening.) Right now they are offering dealer invoice + $700 but with an option of the current discounted finance rates or $2,000 "trading dollars" which I think is the factory cash back you are refering to.

By the way - I also checked on the site and they do not offer "no haggle" pricing in BC and Alberta for Toyota right now - the situation out there with price fixing out there really stinks in my view.

The site suggests people actually buy in Ontario and either drive the car back or have it shipped - they reckon 700-900 and a 2-3 week wait (I would be worried about damage in transit personally)

http://www.carcostcanada.com/en/research_blvd/details.asp?sno=895&catid=6