Toyota Sludge **News story**

[subzero]

Toyota nears sludge settlement


Toyota is on the verge of settling its four-year-old oil sludge case, the Japanese automaker's biggest product liability issue ever in the United States. California-based Toyota Motor Sales has reached a tentative agreement with owners of Toyota and Lexus models who complained of engines damaged by oil sludge.
Toyota has mailed details of the agreement to 7.5 million current and previous owners of 3.5 million Avalon, Camry, Celica, Highlander, Sienna, Solara and Lexus EX 300 and Lexus RX 300 models. Most complaints date to 2002 and involve model year 1997 to 2002 autos.
The agreement would settle a class- action lawsuit filed in Louisiana's Jefferson Parish. A federal judge is expected to rule on the matter Feb. 7.
The agreement would not hand any cash to vehicle owners but will give motorists whose vehicles still are not repaired time to get the engines fixed by Toyota.
In 2002, Toyota agreed to work on vehicles with oil sludge problems, but some consumers sued, contending the company wasn't doing enough.
"The settlement is a validation of the program we put in place four years ago,'' said Toyota spokesman Xavier Dominicis.
Details of carmaker's preliminary settlement

 

[subzero]

Im not sure if any of you remember my problems with my truck starting. It turned out that apparently the oil change place didnt put enough oil in (they said they put 5 quarts). Nearly 2 weeks later my engine wouldnt turn over, only to find out that there was only around 1-2 quarts left in the pan. Im still not sure what happened to the other 3 quarts, but there were no leaks to be found. Does anyone know if this sludge report has anything to do with my truck? I have heard that sludge can form from not having enough oil in the truck as well.

 

[subzero]

Another interesting read....

The "How To" prevent the Sludging problem.


You may be thinking of purchasing a Toyota or you may have heard the stories of engine problems with the Camry, Avalon, Sienna or Lexus engines. In any case I would like to share some ways you can prevent that from happening to you.

First: Use the dealer for your oil change maintenance.

Second: Use the dealer for your oil change maintenance.

Third: Use the dealer for your oil change maintenance.

Fourth: Go ahead and guess this one.

Having spent almost 30 years involved with service departments at auto dealerships I have seen many of the problems possible with vehicles. Many were a combination of design oversights or lack of maintenance by the owner. The engine sludge problem that has developed is still a mystery regarding the true cause. Toyota is maintaining that the owner is the fault since they choose not to use the dealer for oil changes. Having left the family and gone out on their own mistakes will be made and it's not their fault something bad happens. That's contrary to the warranty information they print and give you when you purchase the shinny new Toyota,but when you do what they recommend somewhere else, they basically say you asked for this and now it's yours to deal with.

On the other hand I will say that until recently the dealers were not seeing this problem with vehicles they maintained. Meaning, if the owner used the Toyota or Lexus dealer for oil changes and had the regular maintenance performed there, the engines did not suffer the sludge problem. I go into some detail as to the possible reasons why these vehicles are not as prone to sludge in other parts of this section, so I won't belabor the point now.

The point I want to make is that if you use the dealer for just oil changes, following the recommended time/mileage periods that Toyota suggests in the owners manual, how can they say no if your engine has the problem. You stayed faithful to them and if it still happens they won't even bring the subject up, they will stammer for a cause, but offer to take care of it on the spot.

You may be asking, "Can I start using them now?" . The answer is of course yes by all means.

I encourage you to use the dealer for all you maintenance, they have the trained people and know the vehicle. Not all 6 or 4 cylinder engines will sludge, but some will so why play the odds using a non-dealer to provide this needed service. The only caution I offer is the "regular maintenance" sales pitch they may recommend. Be careful here since they may suggest things not needed at that mileage and were manufactured to produce income not provide a true service value for your vehicle. You can prevent this from happening by reading the owner's manual maintenance section and follow the least demanding maintenance schedule. Almost no one drives under "severe conditions " no matter what the dealer will try to tell you, that is a hook they use to over repair the vehicle and thus generate additional department profits. The good dealers will offer you a choice, explaining the different levels needed, you may choose the basic or the more advanced (this is not bad by the way, just not needed for every visit) but regular dealer visits is the key to engine and vehicle longevity.

One final thought, use the dealer, use the dealer, use the dealer for your maintenance.

 

[Kmvreter]

So here's my question:
What is the root cause for an engine to sludge? If this is a problem that has gone away on later designs, what did they change (or what can they change during the repair) that fixed the problem?

 

[toto]

One theory about the sludge is that both Toyota and the owner share the blame. Toyota, because there may not always be enough room for oil to flow efficiently, and the owner, because oil is made to trap contaminants in suspension, but as the oil is allowed to age and trap more and more garbage, the oil gets itself globbed up in the areas where flow is poor.

So Toyota's design essentially mandated that you keep changing the oil. If you didn't, it's way too easy to cause permanent damage.

There have been no reports of sludge happening to people who changed the oil regularly. It has only happened to people who let it go longer than the book says they should have. I also don't know if synthetic oil helps things or not; I haven't read anything that says only dino oil users have seen the problem.

The mailings about the settlement went out a couple of months ago. If you're an owner, the settlement isn't that great of a deal. Toyota extended the warranty a little bit, but some of the affected models have been out of warranty for some time. If that's the case, you have a certain amount of time *right now* to make a claim, or else you're on your own.

 

[toto]

Im not sure if any of you remember my problems with my truck starting.

Yes, I do. No connection. This sludge thing takes time to build up.

 

[subzero]

Yes, I do. No connection. This sludge thing takes time to build up.

Ok cool. I have now vowed to never let anyone else change my oil. Now the main problem is that the engine makes a light ticking noise when it is being started outside in cold temperatures. Any ideas on what this could be?

 

[gizmopt2002]

I think that is normal, I have it too. I think it is the lifter valve, though I m not sure.

 

[Kmvreter]

So Toyota's design essentially mandated that you keep changing the oil. If you didn't, it's way too easy to cause permanent damage.

There have been no reports of sludge happening to people who changed the oil regularly...

In other words, do the required maintenance. Good to know. Thanks.

 

[toybox]

.

First: Use the dealer for your oil change maintenance.

Second: Use the dealer for your oil change maintenance.

Third: Use the dealer for your oil change maintenance.

Fourth: Go ahead and guess this one.

One final thought, use the dealer, use the dealer, use the dealer for your maintenance.

Or better yet, do it yourself and save the receipts!

My Sienna had the sludge. Dealer asked about oil changes and I said I do all maintenance myself and have receipts for oil and filters. He asked how often I change my oil and I said every 7k. He said, "well you're supposed to do it every 3500 miles" with a very satisfied look on his face. I then said, "oh really, because my owner's manual says every 7500 miles".

They replaced my engine without another word.

There is absolutely no reason a dealer can penalize you for doing your own maintenance.

 

[Kmvreter]

... There have been no reports of sludge happening to people who changed the oil regularly. It has only happened to people who let it go longer than the book says they should have...

So toybox is reporting that you can get sludge even with regular oil changes. Toybox, did the problem recur with the new engine? Back to my original question: what changed? What did they fix? Why don't you have sludge in newer Toy engines? Is there a risk of this happening in the T4R?

 

[toybox]

So toybox is reporting that you can get sludge even with regular oil changes. Toybox, did the problem recur with the new engine? Back to my original question: what changed? What did they fix? Why don't you have sludge in newer Toy engines? Is there a risk of this happening in the T4R?

First, I forget what the problem was but it was a specific problem to this engine. Should not affect any other engines.

Second, I traded this van as soon as I could after the engine replacement because, believe it or not, the transmission also went in this van (talk about bad luck!) but I thought my van was an anomoly and confidently traded it in on a 2005 Sienna (awesome van)

 

[kimboy]

my fathers 98 sienna had sludge build up and the dealer did all the maintenance. We did the math and on average the oil was changed every 3500 miles.

I like the way BMW's take 10 Quarts of synthetic and can go on 10K mile oil change intervales. It's a different approach from say Toyota or Honda, but I think its practical.

The japanese engines seem to want to maximize efficiency thus regular oil change intervals can be extended.

Meanwhile, synthetic oil coming straight from factory German cars is sweet.

 

[gizmopt2002]

We also had 2001 sienna and traded it in on the 4Runner, we did not have the sludge problem, which was great and had about 70,000 miles. Anyways, I don't think that there is a large possibility for this to happen in our 4Runners. He engine is new for 2003, and probably engineered it so that it would be harder for sludge to occur like in the reported models.