Toyota unveils next gen diesel engines

[sven]

Toyota today unveiled their next generation GD diesel engines, which will replace the previous generation KD diesel engines. Compared to the previous generation, they are 15% more fuel efficient, have 25% more maximum torque, 15% more low speed torque, and now have 44% thermal efficiency. Two engines were introduced, a 2.8L (174 hp @ 3,400 rpm, 332 lb-ft @ 1,600-2,400 rpm), and a 2.4L (148 hp @ 3,400 rpm, 295 lb-ft @ 1,600-2,000 rpm).

No mention was made on whether this engine will make its way to the U.S.. However, Toyota said "By 2016, production will reach approximately 700,000 units a year with introduction in approximately 90 markets, set to expand to at least 150 markets by 2020."

All the details on the new tech Toyota put into these engines can be found in the links below.

Toyota's Revamped Turbo Diesel Engines Offer More Torque, Greater Efficiency and Lower Emissions | TOYOTA Global Newsroom

Green Car Congress: Toyota unveils new diesels with advanced thermal insulation combustion; 15% more fuel efficient, 25% more torque; 44% thermal efficiency

 

[Sworks]

I hope that engine makes it to the USA

I have owned the Q7 TDI, BMW Diesel and Mercedes CDI and they are all great. I hope they make a 4 runner, Tacoma and tundra diesel to the USA.

 

[Jeff614]

Interesting... Would be nice to see an engine with some oomph become available in the 4Runner down the line. Trend seems to be moving away from v8's, except in full size and larger trucks, to either turbo'ed 6's or small diesels.

I haven't had any personal experience with the smaller diesels as offered by BMW, 'Benz, Audi, but have had a pre-emissions Cummins, a Duramax with minimal EGR and cat, and a Ford 6.7 with all the emissions equipment (urea, EGR, etc...) and the more they add to make diesels run cleaner seems to subtract from the mileage and reliability advantages diesels were once known for.

I'm all for the environment but not at the cost of having to foot the bill for expensive emission systems that break leaving the vehicle undrivable, have very limited warranties, and cost and arm and a leg out of pocket.

I dearly miss the 400hp/800tq of the 6.7 but the K.I.S.S. engine in the 4Runner seems a worthwhile trade, at least to my wallet...

Never know though, Toyota seems to pride themselves on reliability so hopefully they work out all the kinks in their diesels. JMO.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I wouldn't hold your breath on the US market. They've mentioned a few times that to them it's not worth the investment to convert the engines to US diesel emissions specifications.

 

[marshal]

I wouldn't hold your breath on the US market. They've mentioned a few times that to them it's not worth the investment to convert the engines to US diesel emissions specifications.

i think you'll see the sentiment change when the Wrangler gets the 3.0L V6 VM Motari diesel thats in the grand cherokee, and the mini-duramax finds its way under the hood of the Chevy Colorado next year.

for all we know, ford is planning a secret tight lipped return of the Ranger with the mini-powerstroke under the hood. as it is right now, the ford Transit vans are available with the power stroke, so its 50 state legal. wouldn't b much work to get it in something different.

 

[FrontRange4Runner]

332 lb-ft would move the Runner up the mountains quite nicely.

 

[<<<<]

There is no benefit for diesel engines in US because of fuel price almost the same if not more expencive than gasoline. What's it has to do with 5gen 4Runners anyway? Admin pls move to General Discussions.

 

[sven]

I wouldn't hold your breath on the US market. They've mentioned a few times that to them it's not worth the investment to convert the engines to US diesel emissions specifications.

That was once the true, but I don't think it applies anymore. In the past, European emissions standards were much less strict than U.S. EPA & California emissions standards. In September, 2014 the Europe adopted the much tougher Euro 6 emissions standard, making the emissions standards for Europe and the U.S. about equal. Since Toyota is already selling the diesel engines in Europe that meet the Euro 6 standard, it shouldn't cost much to get them to meet the U.S. EPA standard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

 

[BlackWorksInc]

That was once the true, but I don't think it applies anymore. In the past, European emissions standards were much less strict than U.S. EPA & California emissions standards. In September, 2014 the Europe adopted the much tougher Euro 6 emissions standard, making the emissions standards for Europe and the U.S. about equal. Since Toyota is already selling the diesel engines in Europe that meet the Euro 6 standard, it shouldn't cost much to get them to meet the U.S. EPA standard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

Well according to Toyota when they were bombarded with questions of a 2016 Tacoma diesel. They cited US regulations being to expensive to justify bringing them over right now. Maybe in 5 years that may change, but that's the story their using right now.

 

[sven]

I just noticed in the first video @ 1:19 there is a graphic illustrating the global deployment of Toyota's next-gen diesel engines. It looks like Japan launches missiles at different countries around the world, apparently to signify which countries/markets will get the new diesel engines. The United States is not one of those countries. Oh well. :mmph:

 

[darrylj]

There is no benefit for diesel engines in US because of fuel price almost the same if not more expencive than gasoline.

Yes, with diesel providing a third more distance per gallon. So, yeah, other than 33% better fuel economy, there's no benefit.

 

[wfo9]

i think you'll see the sentiment change when the Wrangler gets the 3.0L V6 VM Motari diesel thats in the grand cherokee, and the mini-duramax finds its way under the hood of the Chevy Colorado next year.

for all we know, ford is planning a secret tight lipped return of the Ranger with the mini-powerstroke under the hood. as it is right now, the ford Transit vans are available with the power stroke, so its 50 state legal. wouldn't b much work to get it in something different.

Yea, the Tacoma is going to have a hard time selling against the little duramax. I really think Toyota has a dud in the chamber with the new Tacoma, but I could be wrong.

 

[Jetboy]

Yes, with diesel providing a third more distance per gallon. So, yeah, other than 33% better fuel economy, there's no benefit.

I've never been able to mathematically justify a diesel in any light truck or cat in the USA. The fuel prices in the USA don't favor diesel. I'm not aware of any diesel passenger vehicles will ever break even with the carrying cost of the diesel engine upgrade. There are other nice benefits. Cost is not one of them that one ever seen pencil out.

The Jeep is a perfect example. The diesel never breaks even on cost and is slower than the base model v6. I'm sure it"feels nice" to drive but there's no performance benefit or cost savings.

 

[wfo9]

I've never been able to mathematically justify a diesel in any light truck or cat in the USA. The fuel prices in the USA don't favor diesel. I'm not aware of any diesel passenger vehicles will ever break even with the carrying cost of the diesel engine upgrade. There are other nice benefits. Cost is not one of them that one ever seen pencil out.

Agree, there is also a bit of a misunderstand of what it is like to drive a 170hp big SUV, even if it has 300+lbs of tq at 2k. It's still not quick to build MPH....

 

[LandCruiser]

Diesel won't happen in the US, unless it's an American diesel engine in an American Toyota like the Tundra... and then it'll be a small wheezy V6, not a big block.

Because of emissions.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Diesel won't happen in the US, unless it's an American diesel engine in an American Toyota like the Tundra... and then it'll be a small wheezy V6, not a big block.

Because of emissions.

It seems like Toyota is getting somewhat serious about making a deal with Cummins in that respect. At least the rumor mill has been pointing out there's been a lot of back and forth between the two. I imagine it's probably the easiest way for Toyota to make a competitive diesel option in the Tundra/Tacoma without cranking up the MSRP by 5k just to justify modifying one of their own diesels to meet US standards.

At least that's the rumor going around.

 

[<<<<]

Yes, with diesel providing a third more distance per gallon. So, yeah, other than 33% better fuel economy, there's no benefit.

Okay, Darryl, lets take 33% savings and compare for price:

In Harrisonburg Va diesel is $3.09 while gasoline is $2.19, that is 41.1 percent difference.

Plus you pay more up front for diesel engine.

 

[wfo9]

Okay, Darryl, lets take 33% savings and compare for price:

In Harrisonburg Va diesel is $3.09 while gasoline is $2.19, that is 41.1 percent difference.

Plus you pay more up front for diesel engine.

There is still probably an edge on paper with actual utility/towing scenarios, but with all the emissions requirements.., the gap is quickly narrowing in those scenarios.. and diesels are clearly on the way out for passenger vehicles on a 10 year horizon. Gasoline tech is advancing so rapidly, and the lines will blur between the two when HCCI gas motors happen (I'm sure some form of them will make it to market). I'm pretty sure Toyota sees the writing on the wall for the US market. But consumers are still willing to pay a premium for them now.

 

[d_clark]

So how about current prices in Michigan

Regular $2.74
Diesel $2.69

Not a huge difference between the two here, but considerably different then other states.

 

[sven]

Okay, Darryl, lets take 33% savings and compare for price:

In Harrisonburg Va diesel is $3.09 while gasoline is $2.19, that is 41.1 percent difference.

Plus you pay more up front for diesel engine.

That's only one data point. Today, at the 7-Elevens in Harrisonburg, VA, the difference in price between diesel and gasoline is much smaller. At one 7-Eleven store, diesel is $2.62 while regular gasoline is $2.49, just a 5.2% difference. At the other 7-Eleven store, diesel is $2.75 while regular gasoline is $2.55, just a 7.8% difference.

Diesel price:
Virginia Gas Prices - Find Cheap Gas Prices in Virginia

Regular gas price:
Virginia Gas Prices - Find Cheap Gas Prices in Virginia