Toyota's responses to spark plug and transmission fluid questions

[Kanab]

Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
We appreciate the opportunity to address your inquiry.

The standard spark plugs in the 2004 4Runner V8 are 120K Iridium plugs. They will not need replacement until 120 thousand miles.

In the effort to minimize service required, the new transmissions do not require a fluid change, unless necessary with very heavy load conditions. There is a temperature sensor in the transmission that would alert the driver, if the load was super heating the transmission.

Otherwise, no maintenance required.

 

[cmj685]

I feel like I am playing Jeopardy--now that I know the answer, what is the question? I have watched the spark plug debate swirl on the forum, obviously, but what precisely was Toyota asked, and why? Why did they limit their answer only to the 2004 model...and only to the v8?

 

[Koz]

I feel like I am playing Jeopardy--now that I know the answer, what is the question? I have watched the spark plug debate swirl on the forum, obviously, but what precisely was Toyota asked, and why? Why did they limit their answer only to the 2004 model...and only to the v8?

The 03 to 05 V6 uses non-iridium plugs, therefore they need to be replaced according to the manual at 30K miles. The 05 V6 now has the same (5 speed auto) trans as the 03 to 05 V8. If it has the sealed one (no dip stick) it uses special synthetic fluid (only sold from Toyota) which will last the life of the vehicle, if you don't tow allot of heavy loads.

Koz

 

[Herd72]

How about the 2003

I have a 2003 V8 are my plugs Iridium and how about the tranny? This is sort of news to me as I am not a "gearhead" at all.

 

[Koz]

Re: How about the 2003

I have a 2003 V8 are my plugs Iridium and how about the tranny? This is sort of news to me as I am not a "gearhead" at all.

If I'm not mistaken all V8 have Iridium plugs, and if the trans has NO dip stick, you have the special fluid.

Koz

 

[Kanab]

Re: Re: How about the 2003

If I'm not mistaken all V8 have Iridium plugs, and if the trans has NO dip stick, you have the special fluid.

Koz

Koz is right. Plus the question that was ask was based on the owners manual stating that all SUV's need their plugs changed at 60K miles except the LC. Not true and Toyota confirmed this. The V8's all have the 120K mile plugs. So if you have a V8 and the dealer wants to change your plugs they are screwing you. The question about the transmission fluid was about the 2004 and newer sealed 5 speed transmissions and were they really saying that you never needed to service the transmission unless you towed??? I like the answer because I learned something I did not know and that is the transmission has a temperature sensor that will let us know if you damaged the fluid and then you will know that it needs to be serviced. Hope that makes everything clearer.

 

[Duc Hunter]

As I understand it the only difference between the 03 5spd tranny and the 04- is the removal of the dipstick and the statement from Toy that they do not need service. The requirement to use only Toy oil is the same for all years, as is the spec

 

[Kanab]

As I understand it the only difference between the 03 5spd tranny and the 04- is the removal of the dipstick and the statement from Toy that they do not need service. The requirement to use only Toy oil is the same for all years, as is the spec’d oil. I bet we 04- folks could order the dipstick and install it in our trannys. Having experience with this in Audi's, VW's, BMW's, Mercedes...........demand then change your oil every 50k miles in that tranny. Is it cheap insurance! Just make the drain/fill bolts so you know they did it.

2004 uses WSATF different fluid.

 

[SolaraT]

My brothers 2000 bmw 328 is the same way with no dip stick and a "sealed" tranny where you never have to change the fluid. I just don't trust that for some reason. I would still check the Spark plugs every 30k to see if they are going bad. Even if they are iridium plugs

 

[Kanab]

My brothers 2000 bmw 328 is the same way with no dip stick and a "sealed" tranny where you never have to change the fluid. I just don't trust that for some reason. I would still check the Spark plugs every 30k to see if they are going bad. Even if they are iridium plugs

You just need to feel the force young skywalker Remember when you had to do a tune-up every 5K miles, points would get screwed up or the plugs would foul? Times they are a changin.

 

[greasefingers]

You just need to feel the force young skywalker Remember when you had to do a tune-up every 5K miles, points would get screwed up or the plugs would foul? Times they are a changin.

I used to carry a match book in my glove compartment for adjusting the points in my 1974 MGB and my 73 TR6! You were lucky to make 5000 miles on the Lucus points and condenser. You always bought two sets at a time and carried them in the car.

 

[greasefingers]

In fact, I can remember when unleaded fuel was bad for valve stem guides. You had to eventually replace them with oil impregnated bronze ones because the lead in gas was a lubricant to the mechanical parts. So the guides would wear out quickly. Shortly, manufacturers changed the materials of the guides to meet the unleaded characteristics. I owned several cars with the larger OD gas filling neck.

 

[boston_kevin]

Re: Re: Re: How about the 2003

Koz is right. Plus the question that was ask was based on the owners manual stating that all SUV's need their plugs changed at 60K miles except the LC. Not true and Toyota confirmed this. The V8's all have the 120K mile plugs. So if you have a V8 and the dealer wants to change your plugs they are screwing you.

This only holds true for the '03 - '04 V8's. The '05-'06 have the VVTI intakes which require non-iridium plugs, forcing the owner the change them at 30k miles.

 

[Kanab]

Re: Re: Re: Re: How about the 2003

This only holds true for the '03 - '04 V8's. The '05-'06 have the VVTI intakes which require non-iridium plugs, forcing the owner the change them at 30k miles.

Kevin, I checked the official Toyota maintance guide and it only indicates that the V6 2005's need to change plugs at 30K miles it still has the V8 changing at 120K miles where did you get your information?

 

[boston_kevin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How about the 2003

Kevin, I checked the official Toyota maintance guide and it only indicates that the V6 2005's need to change plugs at 30K miles it still has the V8 changing at 120K miles where did you get your information?

Nothing official, but I talked to a couple of the techs when I was getting an Oxygen sensor replaced about the spark plugs and why there was a difference. They said due to the VVTI, the spark is also adjusted and the Iridium plugs don't react as well. They also said that all 4Runners (V6 and V8) would be moving to the non-Iridium plugs with the VVTI intake.

The question would be why wouldn't they be the same? Since they share the same intake (plus 2 cylinders and 8 valves), the timing computer is the same and the emission control is the same. The only "significant" difference is the block material, but since the sleeves are all the same material, this would not affect spark performance. Before the VVTI on the V8, they had different intakes, different valves, different timing, but the two engines share the same ignition and timing components (except the V8 still has a belt and the V6 has a chain).

 

[Kanab]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How about the 2003

Nothing official, but I talked to a couple of the techs when I was getting an Oxygen sensor replaced about the spark plugs and why there was a difference. They said due to the VVTI, the spark is also adjusted and the Iridium plugs don't react as well. They also said that all 4Runners (V6 and V8) would be moving to the non-Iridium plugs with the VVTI intake.

The question would be why wouldn't they be the same? Since they share the same intake (plus 2 cylinders and 8 valves), the timing computer is the same and the emission control is the same. The only "significant" difference is the block material, but since the sleeves are all the same material, this would not affect spark performance. Before the VVTI on the V8, they had different intakes, different valves, different timing, but the two engines share the same ignition and timing components (except the V8 still has a belt and the V6 has a chain).

Kevin do you have a 2005 V8 with the VVTi? What does your owners manual state? Like I said the official Toyota maintance site on the web shows 120K miles for the 2005 V8's. If what these tech's told you is true Toyota needs to change some information. I for one would never believe the dealer or the tech's over what Toyota the manufacture was stating. Like everything else at a dealer, you roll in and they want to sell you every un-needed service in the book. Like change your 100K mile coolant at 30K miles or change your lifetime transmission fluid at 30K miles, now if they told me that I needed to change my 120K mile plugs at 30K miles why would I believe them??? Anyone have a 2005/2006 owners manual? What does it state for the V8???

 

[boston_kevin]

I don't have an '05 V8... '04 V6 for me... I was just stating what the techs who do the work were telling me. I asked about why there would be a difference between the V6 and V8 spark plug change intervals, and they said the only reason was due to the VVTI (which makes sense). Iridium plugs do burn hotter, but both the V6 and V8 have the same piston and sleeve material, so this should not affect this. The only other difference is that the V8 intake (I believe) is cast iron where the V6 is aluminum, and maybe that is a reason??? Not sure about that, but since iron can expand and contract more easily and quickly than aluminum.... Still grasping at straws for that one... The VVTI explanation makes sense for the plug differences because the engine would advance or retard the spark on the fly for the engine or adjust per bank of cylinders. Where the old V8 setup would not have the ability to the same extent.

I don't totally trust maintenance manuals either because they copy most of the material from previous model years and edit the areas that have obvious changes. Not saying the docs are wrong or the techs are wrong... Best way would be to have someone with a VVTI V8 pull a plug and see which type it is.

 

[rickst29]

I've got a (new) 2005 V8... seems to be emissions-related

I see from the maintenance guide (and from my underside-of-the-hood documentation stickers) that there are at least two Emissions/Ignition Control System IDs: 2UZ-FE, and 1GR-FE. I've got "2UZ-FE" with my V8. It is 50-state emissions. I'm not sure whether "1GR-FE" is the non-California emmissions, or the V6, or a less advanced 50-state system. (I suspect that it corresponds to a less fancy "non-California" or "less advanced" system from the beginning of the model year -- and that it causes Spark Plugs to become damaged more quickly).

Here's the 3 situations in the book I've got:

#1 People with the advanced 2UZ-FE system, who live in the 3 states which actually implement the highest emissions standards: replace at 60K miles, replace again at 120K miles.

#2 People with the advanced 2UZ-FE system, but who live in other States: we're the lucky ones, we can wait all the way until the 120K replacement is needed (we can skip the 60K).

#3 People who have the "primitive ??" 1GR-FE system: replace at 30K, skip 60K (??? !!!), replace again at 90K, replace again at 120K. I think the book makes a skipping the replacement at 60K, I think they should have said "applies to all models EXCEPT Land Cruiser, Sequioa, Tundra and 4Runner equiped with 2UZ-FE in States other than Calif., Mass., and New York. (All vehicles in California, New York, and Massachusetts need new Spark Plugs at 60K. Only the specified vehicles, registered in other States AND equiped with 2UZ-FE can skip this Service.)"

Note also, it's possible that the new VVT-i system isn't dirtier than the older engines, but the emissions REQUIREMENTS for 2005 became more strict, leading to the more frequent spark plug replacement schedule.

 

[Kanab]

Re: I've got a (new) 2005 V8... seems to be emissions-related

I see from the maintenance guide (and from my underside-of-the-hood documentation stickers) that there are at least two Emissions/Ignition Control System IDs: 2UZ-FE, and 1GR-FE. I've got "2UZ-FE" with my V8. It is 50-state emissions. I'm not sure whether "1GR-FE" is the non-California emmissions, or the V6, or a less advanced 50-state system. (I suspect that it corresponds to a less fancy "non-California" or "less advanced" system from the beginning of the model year -- and that it causes Spark Plugs to become damaged more quickly).

Here's the 3 situations in the book I've got:

#1 People with the advanced 2UZ-FE system, who live in the 3 states which actually implement the highest emissions standards: replace at 60K miles, replace again at 120K miles.

#2 People with the advanced 2UZ-FE system, but who live in other States: we're the lucky ones, we can wait all the way until the 120K replacement is needed (we can skip the 60K).

#3 People who have the "primitive ??" 1GR-FE system: replace at 30K, skip 60K (??? !!!), replace again at 90K, replace again at 120K. I think the book makes a skipping the replacement at 60K, I think they should have said "applies to all models EXCEPT Land Cruiser, Sequioa, Tundra and 4Runner equiped with 2UZ-FE in States other than Calif., Mass., and New York. (All vehicles in California, New York, and Massachusetts need new Spark Plugs at 60K. Only the specified vehicles, registered in other States AND equiped with 2UZ-FE can skip this Service.)"

Note also, it's possible that the new VVT-i system isn't dirtier than the older engines, but the emissions REQUIREMENTS for 2005 became more strict, leading to the more frequent spark plug replacement schedule.

Makes sense, it isn't for the good of the engine, its for emissions. I bet you could go 120K in California and it would still pass emissions. I would not change mine if I lived in California unless I failed the emissions test.

 

[rickst29]

1GR-FE is the V6, not a "primitive" V8

I finished the maintenance schedule pamphlet last night, along with most of the Owners Manual. 1GR-FE is the V6. Maybe the V6 VVTi doesn't use the iridium-tipped plugs, as one of the posts described/guessed above. The V8 definitely has 'em.

The Toyota answer "Spark Plugs in the V8 are good for 120K miles" is *** 100% CORRECT *** for all states except CA, MA, and NY.

I agree with your thinking-- even in CA/MA/NY, don't bother replacing the plugs until your emissions test results ARE getting worse. If they're working great, why throw them away?