TR4 durability

[Aaron Raney]

Question from a proud new owner
2 months ago I picked up my brand new TR4 2007 v6 limited off the showroom floor, only mod is ive installed a toyota front skid plate (actually the dealer installed it, i would have the tools myself)
I love it-beats anything ive ever owned as a total package auto-for reference ive had jags, bmws, audis, hondas, mazdas, etc
i currently own an audi A8L fully loaded and dont even like to drive anymore and for those of you who know cars will know that audi a8L is a superb car, handling, speed, power, etc.
My question-
What is it technically that makes a TR4 such an fantastic, durable auto
Ive read almost all the posts here and can not find an answer
for instance is the steel used by TMC a higher grade than other makes, are the parts machined to a higher degree of exactness, is their engineering so much better ot maybe all of the above
Just curious because i cant figure out why other cars melt at 100K for the most part and toyotas, esp TR4s can go 500K
any thoughts from you guys?
also love the posts, have learned sop much more fom you guys than the dealership or manual
thanks in advance

 

[sharp4runr]

I think one of the big differences is where they are manufactured. The 4Runners are still manufactured in Japan in either the Tahara or Hino plants. Both plants are on the list of best quality manufacturing plants.

http://toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5184&highlight=tahara+hino

Welcome to the forums. BTW, I moved this to the General section as it'll see more traffic there.

 

[Foos]

When my truck is on a lift I easily appreciate how over built the truck is. Everything is solid. The truck is also fairly simple in relation to more expensive cars. So, there is less to go wrong in general, and what is there is done well.
As a comparison...My last ride was an 04 volvo v70r. It had a 3 mode electronic suspension that varied dampening and 4 wheel power distribution based on a myriad of factors. The computer controlling this was known to fail. Angle gears on this car were fragile too. So...there was more to go wrong, and what was in the car wasn't built as well. A great package when it worked though.

 

[Markr]

I think one of the big differences is where they are manufactured. The 4Runners are still manufactured in Japan in either the Tahara or Hino plants. Both plants are on the list of best quality manufacturing plants.

Yeah... I tried not to come to the conclusion that Japanese manufactured Toyotas are better built then American made Toyotas, but it's hard to not agree.

 

[Even Steven]

Yeah... I tried not to come to the conclusion that Japanese manufactured Toyotas are better built then American made Toyotas, but it's hard to not agree.

Actually, there's plenty of data that disagrees with the thought that Japanese-built Toyotas are better than American-built Toyotas. For a number of years, Toyota manufactured Camrys in the U.S. and Japan for the U.S. market. I worked for a Toyota dealer at the time and I remember the easiest/quickest way to tell if a Camry coming off the truck was from Japan is whether or not the side mirrors were installed. American made Camrys had side mirrors already installed; Japanese made Camrys did not.

Anyway, after a few years, the statistics Toyota gathered led to the conclusion that the American made Camrys were just as reliable and well built as the Japanese Camrys.

 

[Falls]

Actually, there's plenty of data that disagrees with the thought that Japanese-built Toyotas are better than American-built Toyotas. For a number of years, Toyota manufactured Camrys in the U.S. and Japan for the U.S. market. I worked for a Toyota dealer at the time and I remember the easiest/quickest way to tell if a Camry coming off the truck was from Japan is whether or not the side mirrors were installed. American made Camrys had side mirrors already installed; Japanese made Camrys did not.

Anyway, after a few years, the statistics Toyota gathered led to the conclusion that the American made Camrys were just as reliable and well built as the Japanese Camrys.

Could the mirrors have been a transport thing coming from Japan on the ship and then railcar ? Just a thought.....

I have my reservations about the rumors of the next 4R being built in US. My concern is getting the UAW cross over workers in there , which I know Honda will not hire any layed off UAW workers for fear if they get in there they will try to get the union in there. ( that was the report out of Indiana new plant anyway ).

 

[Even Steven]

Could the mirrors have been a transport thing coming from Japan on the ship and then railcar ? Just a thought.....

Yes, leaving the mirros off allows the cars to be packed tighter together for shipping purposes. There were other differences besides the mirrors being left off.....for example, the Camrys shipped from Japan had these carboard/mesh (think recyclable molded cardboard, similar to an egg carton) covers over the rotors and calipers. The mechanics had to remove them as part of the pre-delivery inspection. I believe they were supposed to prevent rust from forming on the brake components, considering they were exposed to a lot of salty air during transport. They also had to installed the rubber body plugs on the Japan-built cars.

 

[Uneek]

Off topic,

Having a 5th gen Camry, the front bumper has an access cover for the tow hook and for models without foglights, the filler is removable. US made Camrys lack those attributes.

 

[driftertim]

Actually, there's plenty of data that disagrees with the thought that Japanese-built Toyotas are better than American-built Toyotas. For a number of years, Toyota manufactured Camrys in the U.S. and Japan for the U.S. market. I worked for a Toyota dealer at the time and I remember the easiest/quickest way to tell if a Camry coming off the truck was from Japan is whether or not the side mirrors were installed. American made Camrys had side mirrors already installed; Japanese made Camrys did not.

Anyway, after a few years, the statistics Toyota gathered led to the conclusion that the American made Camrys were just as reliable and well built as the Japanese Camrys.

Actually to tell you more about the side mirrors,
Japan has cars equipped with ( Power Folding Mirrors) thats because the parking spots are very tight and these guys try to save as much space as possible. Its a simple electrical switch and a spring that folds the mirrors with a motor in it. The JDM Market also sees a lot of other knock knacks that we never get in our US Markets. Be it Honda, Nissan, and Toyota itself.
its like saying Engineered in the USA but assembled in China/Mexico etc.

Reliability comes down to simple engineering and the assembly lines dedication and care.

 

[nc211]

My 05' V8 4runner is a replacement for easily the best car I have ever ever ever owned, a 1995 Lexus LS400. That Lexus, with 132,000 miles, ran smoother, stronger, faster and quieter than any car I've ever driven, including my 4runner "totally different vehicle though". The LS is still built in Japan, and I think it's pretty fair to say that their quality at those two plants easily shows in their products. Sold the LS recently for $7,350, not a rattle, squeek or problem from bow to stern. Had to replace it due to an expecting baby, and it was not Home Depot friendly. I also have a 07' Mazda 3, which is a riot to drive, but no where even close to Toyota craftmanship. I think Toyota has me for life. I've owned VW, Subaru, Nissan, GM & BMW...none of them touch Toyota in terms of overall satisfaction.... I just hope they're not trying to reinvent the wheel with some of this new gizmo techie stuff, like the 8 speed tranny in the LS460 that has several loyalist complaining and returning them, the electronic throttle that has caused some problems with lag, and that stupid stupid slider yolk sleeve on the driveshaft that has haunted 4runners and GX470's for the past several years. But, we all know, Toyota takes pride, and they'll fix whatever needs fixing!

 

[Pirate VI]

One thing I think that makes a difference is the engineering. Not to stereotype, but asians are usually pretty good with math and engineering. In addition, the top graduates from Japanese Engineering schools go to work for Japanese companies (car companies, electronic companies etc. ) while the top engineers in the US usually go to work for the government or military. Japanese also have a very good work ethic, and the companies are more efficient. Toyota developed many business strategies (Just In Time being one) that other companies have adopted and are now being taught in business schools. This all has to help Toyota in being able to offer a product that is a better engineered, more precision vehicle.

 

[AlphaQup]

One thing I think that makes a difference is the engineering. Not to stereotype, but asians are usually pretty good with math and engineering. In addition, the top graduates from Japanese Engineering schools go to work for Japanese companies (car companies, electronic companies etc. ) while the top engineers in the US usually go to work for the government or military. Japanese also have a very good work ethic, and the companies are more efficient. Toyota developed many business strategies (Just In Time being one) that other companies have adopted and are now being taught in business schools. This all has to help Toyota in being able to offer a product that is a better engineered, more precision vehicle.

The truth is, the Japanese learned their successful business strategies from a few Gurus from the US. I forgot the names of these Gurus, but they were looked down upon at first by the big manufactures in the US.

It wasn't until later that the US manufacturers saw so much success the Japanese industry was having, that they started implementing these very same "American" strategies that they've once frowned upon.

At least that's what I learned in Business 101.

 

[Pirate VI]

The truth is, the Japanese learned their successful business strategies from a few Gurus from the US. I forgot the names of these Gurus, but they were looked down upon at first by the big manufactures in the US.

It wasn't until later that the US manufacturers saw so much success the Japanese industry was having, that they started implementing these very same "American" strategies that they've once frowned upon.

At least that's what I learned in Business 101.

That could be true, but I know that Toyota is credited with a few business strategies like Just in Time management, and I don't think I have had one business class in my 3.5 years as a business administration major that we haven't talked about Toyota. They must be doing something right at least. (WalMart and Southwest were also talked about a lot)

 

[nc211]

Just In Time is not that new of a process, just like LIFO & FIFO. Although the Japanese have seemed to have perfected it, they've also nearly died by it too, as evidenced by their financial markets over the past several years, thanks to their Just In Time attitude back in the 90's to try and buy up all the commercial real estate here in the states, at Just The Wrong Time. But, Pirate, I think you hit the nail on the head with the work ethic of the Japanese society, in general. Although everyone is proud of what they do, what they bring to the table of life, they actually live and die by it, and view failure as shame, which is deadly over there. It's like Mac v. PC.... One won't ship until it's right, the other will ship and fix the bugs as they pop up. Camry v. Cavalier. One comes 99% right, one comes 60% right. Oddly enough, the boys in the boardroom at GM banked on "service income" to stay afloat, while the boys in the boardroom at Toyota banked on sales and loyal customer base, which for many years lagged GM, simply due to the size and dynamics of the Toyota brand, mainly size. But, now with "american" friendly sized vehicles, a frustrated customer base at GM who are on their umteenth' alternator/waterpump/steeringpump/etc.... at 50k miles, Toyota is winning the branding race, and now #1! But....I wouldn't count the American boys out just yet...after the merger-fanatic deals of the late 90's get unwound and automakers from other countries get back to their roots "volvo, jag, austinmartin, mercedes, etc", I'd expect to see some signifanct strides in the american products. GM is finally leaning on their european design team for cars here in the states, with the new malibu and such....

 

[magnumfan]

To understand Toyota quality, read this book

Andy & Me by Pascal Denis. Crisis and transformation on the LEAN journey

Its a short read about factory and production quality

My opinion of toyota...

Not to shabby for a company who about sixty years ago, their first product was an almost exact copy of a dodge power wagon, I am pretty sure the piston, bearings, gears and a lot of parts were inter-changable.

I might be wrong on the power wagon, some please tell me if I am

 

[97hb]

Parts guy at Oriellys always ask me if mine was manufactured in Japan or America. Didn't know any runners were made in the us, I know Taco's and Tundras are though. My sticker on the door sill says japan. Just so much quality in these things. Has its own channel for the wiring harness in the interior. Just quality.

 

[Fadiddy]

Reliability comes down to simple engineering and the assembly lines dedication and care.

This is exactly why "other" vehicles (actually "other" manufacturers) dont have solid products! The Japanese for the longest time, have always taken pride in what they research, design, and build. Starting back whith ancient Samurai Katana blades that took months to forge and perfect. Toyota, Honda, and pre-Renault owned Nissan, have always employeed workers who didn't just work for money, they worked for pride and to make their company the best it can be. Engineering too.....the japanese are pioneers in just about anything metal related...tight tolerances, to ensure durability and longevity. Think about it, where do the best CNC machines come from? Japan! Where do the best forged wheels come from? Japan! Heck, where do all of the best navigation systems and electronics come from? Japan! I am not saying American, European, Middle-eastern, other Asian companies are garbage....Im simply saying, there just isn't the level of pride take when "doing the job" compared to Toyota and majority of Japan's workers. Just my two cents...and just the reason why I will always buy a Toyota/Lexus for ever!

 

[BillZ260]

From what I have heard, any Toyota Plant can be configured to build any TMC vehicle very easily. This allows them, if necessary to dis-assemble a plant, move it or re-allocate that capital to other plants.

What this tells me is that they know how to build a car very well, and that they design the cars to fit that mold. The design, assembly and all other aspects are integrated. I think that's, at least part of, what makes Toyota 'Quality'.

 

[ratliff]

Quality management

Toyota is known for their reliability and dependability due to the quality of the parts they use and the methods that they use in manufacturing their vehicles. Toyota implements a manufacturing strategy dealing with quality management which minimizes the number of defects in a batch of vehicles. This is a method that is known to work but it cost the company more to implement. For some reason domestic auto manufacturers just dont want to put the money into a process like this and that is why they will always be second rate to a japanese produced auto.

Enjoy the 4Runner, i'm on my third.

:driving:

 

[ShipOfFools]

My 05' V8 4runner is a replacement for easily the best car I have ever ever ever owned, a 1995 Lexus LS400. That Lexus, with 132,000 miles, ran smoother, stronger, faster and quieter than any car I've ever driven, including my 4runner "totally different vehicle though". The LS is still built in Japan, and I think it's pretty fair to say that their quality at those two plants easily shows in their products. Sold the LS recently for $7,350, not a rattle, squeek or problem from bow to stern. Had to replace it due to an expecting baby, and it was not Home Depot friendly. I also have a 07' Mazda 3, which is a riot to drive, but no where even close to Toyota craftmanship. I think Toyota has me for life. I've owned VW, Subaru, Nissan, GM & BMW...none of them touch Toyota in terms of overall satisfaction.... I just hope they're not trying to reinvent the wheel with some of this new gizmo techie stuff, like the 8 speed tranny in the LS460 that has several loyalist complaining and returning them, the electronic throttle that has caused some problems with lag, and that stupid stupid slider yolk sleeve on the driveshaft that has haunted 4runners and GX470's for the past several years. But, we all know, Toyota takes pride, and they'll fix whatever needs fixing!

I'm with you on the LS400. I have a '91 LS400 with 221,000 miles on it, runs like a top, no squeeks or rattles or anything.

However, you said you have owned a BMW and you think the T4R gives you better satisfaction? What kind of BMW did you have? My T4R is more practical and reliable and yada yada, but come on, the E46 3 series is the car.