Trail premium vs the Limited with respect...
- Thread starter Bruin1md
- Start date
XREAS is a crosslinked shack absorber system. The left front shock is connected to the right rear and right front to left rear. It reduces roll in turns.
The KDSS is different. The KDSS uses thick antisway bars to reduce roll in turns. That would normally reduce articulation when offroad. But the KDSS system automatically releases the sway bars when needed offroad.
The KDSS is different. The KDSS uses thick antisway bars to reduce roll in turns. That would normally reduce articulation when offroad. But the KDSS system automatically releases the sway bars when needed offroad.
Bruin1md
New member
The TRD pro utilizes a different suspension from the KDSS in the trail and trail premium.What exactly are the main differences between the XREAS of the limited and the KDSS of the trail? And is it the KDSS in the TRD pro or a totally different suspension?
dhylander
New member
All suspension systems soften with use. Comparing a Limited that has been driven, unless it is almost new, is not going to be a good comparison to a new truck, no if it's KDSS or without. You really need to find a dealer with a new Limited to try.
bimrunner
New member
The TRD pro utilizes a TRD specd bilstein shock and strut. KDSS is a swaybar system only. Trail vrs trail premium is appointments like fake leather or cloth seats (shouldn't affect cornering).
Bruin1md
New member
It seems you can relate to my dilemma.If you can get the new TRD Pro's included I'd do it. Even w/out I'd do it. Personally i'm getting the 17" 7.5's off the FJ/Trail Premium from ebay. If you go too bare bones (regarding creature comforts/trim) coming from a higher end vehicle you'll regret it - trust me as I've made that mistake twice. Your thought process seems very similar to mine when I was looking to buy the 4runner. Just get it (the LTD) and enjoy. It's a body on frame vehicle - a hyundi/kia car will handle better all day every day. Once you're good with that you're good with any 4runner. My 2 cents.
Go Hawks!
Regarding creature comforts that I would be giving up by getting a trail premium as opposed to a LE (these are just off the top of my head without going back to the website):
1. Full perforated leather with ability to cool the seats as opposed to that pseudo leather or leatherette that comes in the trail premium. I have no idea how the latter feels/looks
2. Toyota on road assistance similar to On Star. This seems like a potentially great feature I would be giving up. First year is free and then it's a paid subscription.
3. Sunglasses holder......hey, this is a big deal--lol.
4. Parking sensors with warning
5. JBL speakers
6. Dual climate control.....not a huge deal since it's mostly just me driving.
7. Automatic running boards vs rigid. Not sure this is a big deal either.
Those are the ones off the top of my head, and I'm sure I'm missing a few more that you or others can fill in.
If changing out wheels/tires on a limited will compensate some for the difference I feel with KDSS on the trail, then it does seem like a good decision to go with the LE.
But I know I'm not the only one who felt a significant difference in the drives of the two cars. I've read a couple of other posts saying the same thing, along the someone who posted the link from car and driver i believe, where the testers felt that the trail premium with KDSS was a much better pavement drive than the limited with stock wheels/tires, with less jarring over potholes, better responsiveness and cornering, and even better braking-- although the actual numbers on the break test didn't support what they perceived.
Bruin1md
New member
Oh I know -- I was answering that the KDSS is available in both trail packages.
Intuitively it seems X-REAS would be the better system than KDSS for cornering and handling, but after driving my friends brand new LE with stock wheels and tires I haven't found that to be the case. Her limited is barely broken in so I think it's a reasonable comparison--albeit not ideal.
So.......it would seem the more appropriate comparison would be to see how a new LE with different wheels/tires (17's) would compare to the trail with KDSS.
Unfortunately I won't be able to make that comparison, but it seems like from what you all have written, just making that change in wheels/tires will provide a fairly significant difference in how the LE drives.......for the better.
cjacob316
New member
Trust me when I say, you do not need full time 4wd for any conditions you will encounter on south Louisiana roads... unless you are a horrible driver. If you're one of those douches that go 70 on Ambassador in a downpour and pass using the oncoming lanes, then you may want full time 4wd, but I hope you wouldn't do that stuff.
That being said, pick the one you want most and you feel comfortable driving.
The advantage to the Limited is there are plenty available right now, the TEP w/ KDSS will likely have to be ordered, just don't put down a non refundable deposit in case another dealer gets one in during your wait.
That being said, pick the one you want most and you feel comfortable driving.
The advantage to the Limited is there are plenty available right now, the TEP w/ KDSS will likely have to be ordered, just don't put down a non refundable deposit in case another dealer gets one in during your wait.
Bruin1md
New member
Thanks -- all good points. I may move from here in about 3 years so having the limited in the event I move to a place with worse inclement weather would be one advantage.
However, if I stay here in south Louisiana, I agree that full time 4wd isn't a must despite the fact we get a lot of rain.
I would either have to order the trail premium locally or buy one out of state and drive it back if I go that route. Some of the dealers online are giving $3k discounts right off the bat on trail premiums with KDSS-- I'm not sure Hampton could/would match that.
cjacob316
New member
Toyota of Slidell has a trail premium, not sure about KDSS though
While I am a fan of the Limited's fulltime 4WD system, I do agree with this. It is useful up here on the snowy northeast. Down in LA? Not so much.
Bruin1md
New member
But-- assuming the driver knows how and when to use it-- is there any disadvantage or advantage to the part time 4WD locking rear diff system on the trail vs the full time 4wd Torsen limited slip center diff on the limited .........when it comes to using it in snow or slick conditions (icy roads) or (fill in the blank) condition ?
Jhalko
New member
Driving around corners on snow the full time 4wd can be better in some conditions. Less likely to understeer since the split isnt 50/50, also better grip than 2wd when you are constantly going from snow to pavement and back (as i was today for about 15 miles) but a Trail with good tires would have been fine, dont get me wrong.
FYI, the way the Trail Edition electronics are set up you can only use the locking rear differential in 4Low, which means you aren't going very fast to begin with. It is not something you would use on the street driving to work.
Let me see if I can help you out by sharing my experience with vehicles and winter driving. Before the 4Runner I had an 80 series Land Cruiser with full-time 4WD. They use a lockable centre differential with a viscous coupler; it's not quite the same as a the Torsen set up in the 4Runner Limited but close enough. The LC came with "winter rated" BFG All Terrain tires which had the mountain/snowflake symbol. It sucked on hardpack snow and ice, and was;t much better in loose snow. The 4WD system did a great job of pulling the truck through things, but steering and stopping were a different story. Not great.
I also drove a manual Subaru Legacy GT wagon (also a viscous coupler) for a year. Even with the AWD it sucked in the winter with regular all season tires. I put proper winter tires on it and it was a significant improvement, especially in braking and cornering.
I now have a part time 4WD Trail Edition. I drove it with the OEM Bridgestone all season tires in the first few snowfalls we had this winter and it was terrible, even in 4WD. I replaced those tires with Cooper AT3s and there was some improvement but it still wasn't great. I finally got around to putting on the winter tires and wheels I've had sitting in the garage since the summer and the difference is significant. Control is much better all around (accelerating, steering, and braking) regardless of 4WD or 2WD.
The common thread here is clearly not the platform nor the drivetrain, it's the tires. Buy the right tires for the conditions you'll be driving in and you'll have much better control. 4WD systems only really benefit you when you're using the gas pedal; proper tires will always be helping you, regardless of whether you're trying to go, stop, or turn. For what it's worth, my mother drives a 2WD Tacoma with winter tires on it and has no trouble with Canadian winters.
TL;DR: Buy proper tires for your expected driving conditions.
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
I will say though, that my 2012 Nissan Rogue with OEM all seasons is GREAT in snow. It loves the stuff. Id say with proper snow tires. It would be unstoppable
Offroad I don't see much difference. Once you lock the Torsen center diff (which I do as soon as I go offroad), it behaves just like a part-time system. The part-time system has the advantage that, being shifted with a lever, it doesn't have the expensive actuator that can fail. Actuator failures aren't common, but they have happened.
On snowy roads, I prefer the Torsen. Even on rainy roads, you can leave the Torsen in 4WD high unlocked, and not get wheelspin when you need to accelerate quickly (like pulling out of a cross-street into traffic).
Bruin1md
New member
helpful feedback, and yes, the common thread seems to be fit the right tires when needed.
There's no getting around that.
One question-- you said the electronics on the Trail are set up to allow the locking feature only in 4Low. What happens to the rear differential when it's set on 4High in that case?
I've read of people here who (rightly or wrongly) who put their system in 4High when it's raining --especially in heavy rain. I thought the rear differential locks when that setting is chosen?
Riddler6.7
New member
The trail edition rear differential just works as an "open" differential, just like all other trim levels. It works this way until in 4low and the driver pushes the button to lock the differential.
Bruin1md
New member
Got it-- but then why the 'pulling' feeling when it's on 4High if the car is being reversed and turned at the same time? If no locking is being engaged in this mode, why is it dangerous to do this as opposed to just using the truck while driving straight in the requisite conditions with minimal turning involved?
That's the part that I'm still not clear on (w/r to the 4H feature).
Riddler6.7
New member
Because when putting the trail edition or SR5 in 4hi, it's locking the transfer case, not the rear differential.
Where as the limited has a torsen type differential INSIDE the transfer case that allows it to slip, when not locked.
We are talking about two different components, a transfer case and a rear differential inside the rear axle. The trail edition has a rear differential locker, which no other trim has stock
Where as the limited has a torsen type differential INSIDE the transfer case that allows it to slip, when not locked.
We are talking about two different components, a transfer case and a rear differential inside the rear axle. The trail edition has a rear differential locker, which no other trim has stock
