Transmission Problem

[97blkt4r]

Car: '97 Toyota 4runner 4wd Automatic 144,000 miles

Problem:
There are times when I am going to start driving and when I push on the gas the car revs as if it is in neutral, but it's in drive. Then after a few seconds it makes a noise (sounds like 'breek!') and jerks forward and I can drive away. Usually, after this happens, when I'm coming (and I'm almost stopped) the car will make a noise and jerk to a stop. Most of the time when this happens the car will not roll forward when there is no foot on the brake or gas and it's in drive (normally, like all automatics it would roll forward). It is as if there is occasionally a problem where the transmission is slipping out of 1st gear into neutral when coming to a stop and not wanting to go into 1st gear when it is put from park to drive.

I took it to AMMCO and had them do a free diagnostic on it. They said the fluid level is good, but the fluid is varnished. The scan for codes and no codes came up. They didn't see anything visually wrong and when they test drove it (multiple times) the car did not present the symptoms I wrote about above (it is an intermittent problem). They said they could charge me $600 to take the transmission off and inspect, but they could add more labor charges on top of it if they discover the problem and replace a part, so I'm not quite ready to do that. They said I should change the fluid, filter, & gasket $115, but since I think the problem is more then just needing new fluid I just assume having the fluid changed when the repairs are done so that there is no additional charge.

My questions are:
What is the likely cause(s) of these issues?

Would all of the likely causes be very apparent if the transmission was removed (I would hate to have them inspect it and not find the source of the problem)?

What is your guess as to the cost of the part(s) of the likely cause(s) would be? In other words, if you think part x may be busted, then how much would you guess it would cost for the replacement part.

Thanks in advance for any info & sorry for the long explanation.

 

[Ian97]

I'd have the tranny fluid flushed, not just changed, then see if the problem reoccurs. I've had this same thing happen in my 4runner and it was a tad bit low on the fluid, I added about 1/2 quart and it seemed to correct the problem.

Hope that helps some,

-Ian

 

[97blkt4r]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I was just hoping to figure out if the problem is likely something other than just bad fluid, because I don't want to have it flushed only to find out that flushing the fluid didn't cure it and I would have to have the transmission rebuilt. But if bad fluid could likely account for the problem, then it would be worth trying.

Does varnished just mean dirty?

 

[DaveS]

I would get it flushed and pray that fixes the issue. If it goes beyond that, I don't see how much they are going to find out by removing the tranny unless they tear it down and then you are in a different league of cost if you are paying for labour.

 

[kball]

Varnished means the fluid was burned. Once that happens the internal parts of the trans get a thin build up of "varnish" or burned deposits. This can lead to things like valves in the valve body sticking which may be your problem. I would definitely try flushing the trans to save rebuild $$$

 

[97blkt4r]

Thanks for the info. I will be have it flushed.

 

[97blkt4r]

I had the fluid drained and replace w/ a new filter. I found out that a rear axel seal is slightly leaking. I have only driven it a little since the fluid was changed and so far there have not been any issue. I was thinking though, I wonder if the problems I experienced could be from that axel seal leaking? What do you guys think?

 

[Sig220]

I had the fluid drained and replace w/ a new filter. I found out that a rear axel seal is slightly leaking. I have only driven it a little since the fluid was changed and so far there have not been any issue. I was thinking though, I wonder if the problems I experienced could be from that axel seal leaking? What do you guys think?

Hmm, I guess by you bringing up the rear axle leak that your problem may not have been transmission related??

If your symptoms were this: Place in gear and have to rev engine up then it makes a sharp noise like it broke loose and moves forward? Some times when you are moving slowly, and lightly apply the brakes does the vehicle sort of "shudder" and maybe one rear wheel lock up?

If these apply, you would need to bevel the edges of your rear brake pads.

I was having the problems above and after a lot of looking, beveled the brake pads and the problem stopped. I had a friend with a Toyota P/u and Toyota replaced his transmission for the same problem and when the problem came back he beveled his rear pads and hasn't had a problem since.

Glad you got your tranny serviced, but try and stay away from AAMCO.

If the leak at your rear axle seal gets to your brakes pads it will cause problems as well.

Good Luck to ya!!

 

[97blkt4r]

Okay so although the problem is happening less frequently, it is still happening. I've been letting it warm-up a little longer which may be the reason it is happening less frequently (although that may have nothing to do with it).

I'm debating on whether to just replace the transmission. I'm not sure how big of a job this would be for my 4runner because I'm having a hard time finding any How to/DIY. I'm thinking that replacing it might be the best option because it will be at least $600 for a shop to take the transmission off to look for what the problem is and then who knows what they will add on if they find the problem. There is also the chance that they take it off and can't find what is wrong. So I figure instead of possible wasting $600+ it would be worth replacing it. I'm tight on money, but I plan on keeping the 4runner till it dies, so I look at it as an investment.

My questions are:
-How big of a task is this?
-Does anyone know of a DIY for a 3rd gen 4runner?
-Would something like a Haynes Manuel have in it how to replace a transmission?
-If I do replace it, should I replace it with new/rebuilt/used? (I'm thinking that rebuilt would probably be best.)
-Anybody have any opinions one good places/websites to buy reasonable priced good quality rebuilt transmissions for my t4r?
-Is there a difference in transmissions for 4wd vs 2wd, Sr5 vs Limited, etc.?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[brian2sun]

Dropping the pan only gets about 1/3 of the old fluid out (~4 out of 12 qts.). The rest stays up in the torque converter and all the lines. I would still flush it like everyone said earlier. Maybe the reason it seems to be a little better is because you replaced some of the old fluid, but not enough. Spending the $$ on flushing it for real is worth it IMO. That's better than spendin a bunch of $$ on rebuilding the tranny when a flush could have saved it.

Throw some Lucas Transmission Fix in there too. That's stuff is good to use even if you don't have any problems.

 

[DenverKid24]

Car: '97 Toyota 4runner 4wd Automatic 144,000 miles

Problem:
There are times when I am going to start driving and when I push on the gas the car revs as if it is in neutral, but it's in drive. Then after a few seconds it makes a noise (sounds like 'breek!') and jerks forward and I can drive away. Usually, after this happens, when I'm coming (and I'm almost stopped) the car will make a noise and jerk to a stop. Most of the time when this happens the car will not roll forward when there is no foot on the brake or gas and it's in drive (normally, like all automatics it would roll forward). It is as if there is occasionally a problem where the transmission is slipping out of 1st gear into neutral when coming to a stop and not wanting to go into 1st gear when it is put from park to drive.

I took it to AMMCO and had them do a free diagnostic on it. They said the fluid level is good, but the fluid is varnished. The scan for codes and no codes came up. They didn't see anything visually wrong and when they test drove it (multiple times) the car did not present the symptoms I wrote about above (it is an intermittent problem). They said they could charge me $600 to take the transmission off and inspect, but they could add more labor charges on top of it if they discover the problem and replace a part, so I'm not quite ready to do that. They said I should change the fluid, filter, & gasket $115, but since I think the problem is more then just needing new fluid I just assume having the fluid changed when the repairs are done so that there is no additional charge.

My questions are:
What is the likely cause(s) of these issues?

Would all of the likely causes be very apparent if the transmission was removed (I would hate to have them inspect it and not find the source of the problem)?

What is your guess as to the cost of the part(s) of the likely cause(s) would be? In other words, if you think part x may be busted, then how much would you guess it would cost for the replacement part.

Thanks in advance for any info & sorry for the long explanation.

I had the exact same probably with my '99 recently after I bought it, unfortunately.

It cost around $550 to fix it.

It was a throttle position sensor and I also had the fluid flushed for good measure. Problem solved. The sensor itself is pretty cheap, it's the labor that gets ya. I also had it done at AAMCO.

I also had the rear axle leak, and that isn't what is causing this (at least it wan't for me), the axle leak is just hurting your break pads in the rear, I got this fixed as well, forget the price, but it wasn't cheap unfortunately.

 

[97blkt4r]

Dropping the pan only gets about 1/3 of the old fluid out (~4 out of 12 qts.). The rest stays up in the torque converter and all the lines. I would still flush it like everyone said earlier. Maybe the reason it seems to be a little better is because you replaced some of the old fluid, but not enough. Spending the $$ on flushing it for real is worth it IMO. That's better than spendin a bunch of $$ on rebuilding the tranny when a flush could have saved it.

Throw some Lucas Transmission Fix in there too. That's stuff is good to use even if you don't have any problems.

Yeah I probably should have it completely flushed out. I'll have to look into getting some of the Lucas Transmission Fix. Thanks for the advice.

 

[97blkt4r]

I had the exact same probably with my '99 recently after I bought it, unfortunately.

It cost around $550 to fix it.

It was a throttle position sensor and I also had the fluid flushed for good measure. Problem solved. The sensor itself is pretty cheap, it's the labor that gets ya. I also had it done at AAMCO.

I also had the rear axle leak, and that isn't what is causing this (at least it wan't for me), the axle leak is just hurting your break pads in the rear, I got this fixed as well, forget the price, but it wasn't cheap unfortunately.

Throttle position sensor, huh. Was your Check Engine Light on? Mine isn't and they check the ECU and nothing should up, so if yours was then that probably isn't my problem. Thanks for the advice though.

 

[DenverKid24]

Throttle position sensor, huh. Was your Check Engine Light on? Mine isn't and they check the ECU and nothing should up, so if yours was then that probably isn't my problem. Thanks for the advice though.

It was not on, no.

My 4runner was doing exactly what yours was doing.

Then when they tried to recreate the problem, it wouldn't work. So they kept it over night, tried it first thing the next morning and it worked for them.

So they were able to diagnose that the problem was that, installed it, and it hasn't had the problem since.

 

[topdown4runner]

I was having the exact same problem as described on my '99.
My parking brakes were sticking. I replaced the "awl" on both sides and did a complete rear brake job.
I have not had the problem since.