Transmission swapped: noise still the same

[thegipper]

I bet its either a pinion bearing or a carrier bearing in the rear differential. I would open it up and inspect for damage/play in the bearings.

 

[Ol'Blue]

I am seriously at a loss here. What I thought was noises coming from my automatic transmission, are clearly not.

Backstory. I have a 2001 SAS 4runner with an auto transmission. I was getting whining noises coming from what I thought was the transmission. They had slowly but surely gotten worse over time. So, I dropped the pan and found TONS of metal shavings in the pan. I flushed it and then took it to a transmission shop a week or so later. They drove the vehicle and said the transmission was probably going to grenade. He said it was possible it was the O/D gear and or the torque converter. I took that to heart and sourced a used A340F transmission.

I swapped in the lightly used one this past weekend and finally was able to take it out for a spin. THE NOISES DIDNT CHANGE ONE BIT

I am at a loss completely. The noise sounds very similar to tire whine. High pitched whine that ONLY happens when on the throttle. It doesn't rise or fall in pitch, stays the same once I get about about 10-15mph. I can literally bleep the throttle and hear it blip with the rpm ranges. I haven't been able to get a good video of the whine. It also happens on deceleration. So if I exit the highway and come up to a red light I can hear the whine falling along with my rpms, until right before I get to a stop it kinda whines then rattles slightly then goes away.

I am thinking it could be a bearing of some sorts. I am just very unsure where and how to get to figuring out the source of this noise. Any help would be appreciated.

WTF Really??????

Dude I'm really sorry! Ok so I know that we have talked at length about this issue before you bought the truck.

So lets start at the beginning and take some things off the table that have been gone through and or changed.

The front axle has been gone through and alot of stuff changed out- Noise was still there after that. The drive home is when the Trans first showed it's head hince The Trans guy told me T-Converter as I told you when you bought the truck.

After all the front end work was done to include the looking at the front pinion bearings and I was really admit about that I was told it was good, the guy that looked through it told me himself because he was the one that worked on this and they do good work and I do trust there honesty because my family has been doing business with them for some time. All the hub bearings were changed out but not the gears and bearings in the 3rd member etc.??????

Next- Trans, T-Converter, and Case all replaced.

The front drive line is pretty fing new. I had it build that December when I bought the truck so it is not even two years old.

So from the Case back what else is in play-

Rear drive line and or rear end is all that is really in play. I'm really at a loss right now man. I know we are both pretty good on 3rd Gens but this was my rig at one time and I was almost sure as many others that "KNOW" that is was the converter. I'm really scratching my head right now.

At this point I feel that taking a look at the rear end might be in order even thought I' almost swear its at the from of the truck.

I know this sounds stupid but is it possible it's the tires at this point?

Hit me up and we will all put are heads together on this one. I know I told you I would help as much as I can and I will keep my word on that. I still have that paperwork on my counter bud I have just been out of town for some work stuff. I'll call up to the shop that did the Axle work and revisit this with them again and see what they think and also the Trans guy.

Blue

 

[Nate_GB]

I'm in agreement with the previous people who have stated pinion bearing or carrier bearing in the diff. The symptoms you are describing are tell tale signs of a diff not being set up properly. And the main reason a properly set up diff set up would develop a problem is if bearings are starting to go. Pull the driveshafts to isolate front or rear, the once you've isolated test carrier bearing preload and pinion bearing preload. I'm betting one or both will be way out of spec. Might also want to run a pattern check if you want to be real thorough with your diagnosis.

Looks like the front diff was built or rebuilt recently. This could be my skepticism but are you sure it was set up correctly?

 

[manesfesto]

WTF Really??????

Dude I'm really sorry! Ok so I know that we have talked at length about this issue before you bought the truck.

So lets start at the beginning and take some things off the table that have been gone through and or changed.

The front axle has been gone through and alot of stuff changed out- Noise was still there after that. The drive home is when the Trans first showed it's head hince The Trans guy told me T-Converter as I told you when you bought the truck.

After all the front end work was done to include the looking at the front pinion bearings and I was really admit about that I was told it was good, the guy that looked through it told me himself because he was the one that worked on this and they do good work and I do trust there honesty because my family has been doing business with them for some time. All the hub bearings were changed out but not the gears and bearings in the 3rd member etc.??????

Next- Trans, T-Converter, and Case all replaced.

The front drive line is pretty fing new. I had it build that December when I bought the truck so it is not even two years old.

So from the Case back what else is in play-

Rear drive line and or rear end is all that is really in play. I'm really at a loss right now man. I know we are both pretty good on 3rd Gens but this was my rig at one time and I was almost sure as many others that "KNOW" that is was the converter. I'm really scratching my head right now.

At this point I feel that taking a look at the rear end might be in order even thought I' almost swear its at the from of the truck.

I know this sounds stupid but is it possible it's the tires at this point?

Hit me up and we will all put are heads together on this one. I know I told you I would help as much as I can and I will keep my word on that. I still have that paperwork on my counter bud I have just been out of town for some work stuff. I'll call up to the shop that did the Axle work and revisit this with them again and see what they think and also the Trans guy.

Blue

Its a gremlin, they happen. I have just been going through every thing I assume it could be. Replacing the transmission was required regardless of the noise. The pan looked insane! So now that I have that out of the way, I am looking driveline.

It sounds more like its coming from the front, but that could just be the fact that its traveling up the shaft and traveling right under my seat.

I checked for play with the shafts still on and I cant get any movement. I am going to pull my front shaft Saturday and drive it and see if I get the noise. Then do the rear and such to totally be sure I am isolating it. If that rear hasnt been touched in a long time, I wouldn't doubt its just worn bearings with the 5.29s in there.

It cant be the tires because I can let off the throttle and the noise goes completely away. Its only when I am on the gas that it whines. Which leads me to think its the rear diff.

Process of elimination. This things been a god damn headache! hahahah

 

[manesfesto]

I'm in agreement with the previous people who have stated pinion bearing or carrier bearing in the diff. The symptoms you are describing are tell tale signs of a diff not being set up properly. And the main reason a properly set up diff set up would develop a problem is if bearings are starting to go. Pull the driveshafts to isolate front or rear, the once you've isolated test carrier bearing preload and pinion bearing preload. I'm betting one or both will be way out of spec. Might also want to run a pattern check if you want to be real thorough with your diagnosis.

Looks like the front diff was built or rebuilt recently. This could be my skepticism but are you sure it was set up correctly?

I will pull driveshafts saturday morning. I think the noise is traveling from the rear diff up the driveshafts and kinda dumping itsself right at the transfer case. Hence it being so damn loud under me.

Once I isolate the front or rear I will check preload and such. I have a buddy that builds these an hour or so away so its shouldnt be to difficult to figure out.

thanks for all the help guys

 

[Ol'Blue]

Its a gremlin, they happen. I have just been going through every thing I assume it could be. Replacing the transmission was required regardless of the noise. The pan looked insane! So now that I have that out of the way, I am looking driveline.

It sounds more like its coming from the front, but that could just be the fact that its traveling up the shaft and traveling right under my seat.

I checked for play with the shafts still on and I cant get any movement. I am going to pull my front shaft Saturday and drive it and see if I get the noise. Then do the rear and such to totally be sure I am isolating it. If that rear hasnt been touched in a long time, I wouldn't doubt its just worn bearings with the 5.29s in there.

It cant be the tires because I can let off the throttle and the noise goes completely away. Its only when I am on the gas that it whines. Which leads me to think its the rear diff.

Process of elimination. This things been a god damn headache! hahahah

In all honesty I don't think it's going to be the front shaft. Like I said I know the guys who build it and its solid. I know that you can grease it and its serviceable too. It had all Spicer parts in it also.

As for the rear I never messed with it. I think you are right on the tires I was just thinking through all the possibility.

I have never pulled the rear diff open because I never had issues with it. I really hope that it's not the locker in there man. The more I think about it the more I wonder if it was shimmed right in the rear end? Only way to know is open it up. Now if that is the case its an easy fix pretty much. Please keep me posted on this beast.

Thanks man.

Brian

 

[manesfesto]

In all honesty I don't think it's going to be the front shaft. Like I said I know the guys who build it and its solid. I know that you can grease it and its serviceable too. It had all Spicer parts in it also.

As for the rear I never messed with it. I think you are right on the tires I was just thinking through all the possibility.

I have never pulled the rear diff open because I never had issues with it. I really hope that it's not the locker in there man. The more I think about it the more I wonder if it was shimmed right in the rear end? Only way to know is open it up. Now if that is the case its an easy fix pretty much. Please keep me posted on this beast.

Thanks man.

Brian

Yeah I am gonna say its the rear too. Ill make sure it is this weekend then open it up as soon as I can. Not the end of the world. Should be fairly simple to diagnose once its open.

Ill be in touch bud.

 

[manesfesto]

So I have updates.

I realized at some point, my breather hose popped off. I remember a few months ago after taking a 2 hours highway trip I had oil spewed all along my rear under carriage. I couldn't find any leaks!!!!! I wiped it all down and made sure to keep an eye on it. We'll, today I put two and two together and realized it was probably my breather had popped off, the highway speeds were heating up these gears so hot it was spewing oil. Checked my fluid today.

Super low. Milky. (Water crossing without breather I thought was attached)

I drained everything and topped it off. Noise still the same.i then went and doubled rained by pulling off the front portion of the pumpkin. I separated it from the housing enough to drain absolutely all the fluid and brake clean the whole housing. Mind you, I didn't totally separate it so I could see the gears because I have an ARB locker and am still new to those and felt some tension holding everything together and just wanted to clean what I could.

The noise is the same. But here is my concern.

Is this a lost cause? I wanted a vehicle I can drive to the off road park 90 miles away, run some decent trails and drive it to work on Monday. It has 5.29 gears. ARB locker in a 8" clamshell. I cannot and will not be only driving it a few days a month. I need it to work. 90% of the time.

Is thissomething that if I have this rear axle set up properly with all new bearings I'm going to be fighting constantly or will it have th longevity of a normal axle?

The more I've read on forums such as pirate, is that these gears should run just fine down th highway with my set up with no issues. I just need some assurance that once I handle this properly I won't be beating my wallet into th ground every 6mo because my gears get so hot they wanna explode.

Any and all opinions welcomed.

 

[thegipper]

Did you inspect the carrier and pinion bearings?

Did you check the backlash between the gears?

Was there any unusual wear marks on the gears?

It is almost certainly something inside the rear differential, you just need to figure out what it is. You need to do it sooner rather than later before something gets seriously messed up.

 

[thegipper]

Also, if you don't know how to properly inspect these items, it's probably time to take it to a gear shop. They should be able to tell you what's going on.

 

[manesfesto]

Well, was finally able to pull the 3rd member, and its completely f*cked. The pinion gear has an amount of play in it that I have never seen. It rotates back and forth a 1/4 of a turn either way before the gears even make contact in the ring gear. There is also this weird grooving on the housing of the ARB locker I cant seem to figure out.


Regardless, I cannot find any shops in Austin that will even touch this 3rd so I am biting the bullet and sending it to Zuk at gearinstalls.com

Ive only heard amazing things from his work so I am putting all my faith and money into having it done once, correctly. Shipping is gonna be fun.

 

[manesfesto]

Photos

 

[thegipper]

Well, there's your problem.....

At least the hunt is over and you know what the problem is. The big question is, why? Who installed the ARB locker? Clearly something was installed incorrectly, I think that is obvious.

 

[manesfesto]

Well, there's your problem.....

At least the hunt is over and you know what the problem is. The big question is, why? Who installed the ARB locker? Clearly something was installed incorrectly, I think that is obvious.

Yeah my exact question. I dont really understand where or how those grooves would have been made? Any ideas? and the previous owner had the rear axle built so I am unsure to be honest...... :juggle::juggle:

 

[amalik]

Oh wow. Early on in this thread, i said rear diff bearings. I Dont think anyone thought the damn gears themselves.

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[manesfesto]

Also, If anyone instagram I posted a short video of the pinion gear slack.

its

manesfesto

 

[thegipper]

Honestly, I'm not sure either. Maybe the pinion gear has so much slop that it is being pushed rearward into the carrier? That's about the only thing I can think of.

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[manesfesto]

Honestly, I'm not sure either. Maybe the pinion gear has so much slop that it is being pushed rearward into the carrier? That's about the only thing I can think of.

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Yeah, that was the only conclusion I could even think of.

 

[Doc2012]

Did you have a solid spacer installed when you did the ARB?


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[manesfesto]

Did you have a solid spacer installed when you did the ARB?


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Previous owner had the ARB installed, I am unsure. Maybe Blue will chime in here who was the previous owner for a little bit.