Trouble starting a hot engine led to charcoal canister replacement

bill2174

New member
Posting this to document a strange set of conditions for someone in the future with a similar problem.

2002 4Runner with about 250k miles on it.

The first condition that began this whole adventure was difficulty starting the engine when it was hot. The best example was a stop at the gas station. I'd shut the engine off, pump gas for a few minutes, and attempt to restart. The engine would start, and then immediately die. I would then need to crank the engine for 4-5 seconds before it would restart. No issues driving after that.

My first inkling was the fuel system. The fuel filter was due for a change, so I started there. No change to the problem.

I then went to the MAF sensor and throttle body, and decided to clean both of those just to rule them out. While doing that, I notice a hole on the underside of the vacuum line that goes to the air intake. "Ahh, here's the problem!" I thought, and replaced the vacuum line.

A few days after changing the vacuum line, I started to get P0440, P0441 and P0446 codes intermittently:

============1==============
P0441
Raw code: 0441
ECU: 10
Status: Pending
Evaporative emission (EVAP) system - incorrect flow detected
Evaporative Control Incorrect Flow Detected

============2==============
P0440
Raw code: 0440
ECU: 10
Status: Pending
Evaporative emission (EVAP) system - malfunction
Evaporative Control System Malfunction

============3==============
P0446
Raw code: 0446
ECU: 10
Status: Confirmed
Evaporative emission (EVAP) system, vent control - circuit malfunction
Evaporative Control Vent Control Malfunction

This usually happened on my morning commute after driving for about 3-4 minutes. Since I had changed the long vacuum line in the engine compartment, I decided to try the easy road and change the vacuum switching valve that was at the other end of the line. Despite it having a good deal of rust/corrosion on the mounting bracket, it was still functioning normal and wasn't the culprit.

After lots of searching, I decided to go after the VSV that was on top of the charcoal canister. Under the truck I went. While I'm not in the worst part of the rust belt, 22 years had rusted all 4 mounting bolts for the canister, and I ended up having to drill/tap 3 of the 4. Drilling an tapping was a total pain because of the frame member that is in the way for the forward bolts. The aft bolts were gentlemanly with the spare tire removed.

When I removed the canister, which is required to get to the VSV, I noticed that the canister itself sounded like an etch a sketch when you would move it side to side.

After some light troubleshooting, I decided to replace the entire canister. Based on the age of the truck, I decided to go with the aftermarket Dorman one, rather than the Toyota part. Photos of the old and new canisters are attached. The nice part is that the new canister included all new hoses and a new VSV, so hopefully I never have to touch that thing again for the life of the truck.

Because of the bolts, if you're going to drop that canister, I recommend you just replace it in the process. It was a pain and about 2-3 hours to complete. I'll be happy if I never have to touch that thing again!

Hopefully someone else finds this helpful!
 

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That Dorman unit looks dang near identical! Usually Dorman has some slight cosmetic differences from the OEM part. The OEM can be had for about 280 bucks, where this one shows up around 180 on Amazon and other online vendors. I would be interested to see who actually supplies this part for Dorman, and they don't make anything themselves.
 
I am curious how long it holds up. Hopefully, for 20 plus years. :)

My 2001 original looked extremely nasty. I opted to pull a used one out of California. So I hope you found an alternative aftermarket part as another option.

Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk
 
Posting this to document a strange set of conditions for someone in the future with a similar problem.

2002 4Runner with about 250k miles on it.

The first condition that began this whole adventure was difficulty starting the engine when it was hot. The best example was a stop at the gas station. I'd shut the engine off, pump gas for a few minutes, and attempt to restart. The engine would start, and then immediately die. I would then need to crank the engine for 4-5 seconds before it would restart. No issues driving after that.

My first inkling was the fuel system. The fuel filter was due for a change, so I started there. No change to the problem.

I then went to the MAF sensor and throttle body, and decided to clean both of those just to rule them out. While doing that, I notice a hole on the underside of the vacuum line that goes to the air intake. "Ahh, here's the problem!" I thought, and replaced the vacuum line.

A few days after changing the vacuum line, I started to get P0440, P0441 and P0446 codes intermittently:

============1==============
P0441
Raw code: 0441
ECU: 10
Status: Pending
Evaporative emission (EVAP) system - incorrect flow detected
Evaporative Control Incorrect Flow Detected

============2==============
P0440
Raw code: 0440
ECU: 10
Status: Pending
Evaporative emission (EVAP) system - malfunction
Evaporative Control System Malfunction

============3==============
P0446
Raw code: 0446
ECU: 10
Status: Confirmed
Evaporative emission (EVAP) system, vent control - circuit malfunction
Evaporative Control Vent Control Malfunction

This usually happened on my morning commute after driving for about 3-4 minutes. Since I had changed the long vacuum line in the engine compartment, I decided to try the easy road and change the vacuum switching valve that was at the other end of the line. Despite it having a good deal of rust/corrosion on the mounting bracket, it was still functioning normal and wasn't the culprit.

After lots of searching, I decided to go after the VSV that was on top of the charcoal canister. Under the truck I went. While I'm not in the worst part of the rust belt, 22 years had rusted all 4 mounting bolts for the canister, and I ended up having to drill/tap 3 of the 4. Drilling an tapping was a total pain because of the frame member that is in the way for the forward bolts. The aft bolts were gentlemanly with the spare tire removed.

When I removed the canister, which is required to get to the VSV, I noticed that the canister itself sounded like an etch a sketch when you would move it side to side.

After some light troubleshooting, I decided to replace the entire canister. Based on the age of the truck, I decided to go with the aftermarket Dorman one, rather than the Toyota part. Photos of the old and new canisters are attached. The nice part is that the new canister included all new hoses and a new VSV, so hopefully I never have to touch that thing again for the life of the truck.

Because of the bolts, if you're going to drop that canister, I recommend you just replace it in the process. It was a pain and about 2-3 hours to complete. I'll be happy if I never have to touch that thing again!

Hopefully someone else finds this helpful!

Were you having any issues pumping gas, with the gas filling the neck and the tank not venting?
 
This was my thought, too. And they say overfilling can damage the charcoal canister as well.

I think my problem is that I wheel a lot, and I always start out with a full tank of fuel. I have been smelling gas real bad after trail runs. Pretty sure when I'm off camber to the driver side, gas is running up the filler tube, and going in the evap tube at the top of the filler neck....

Every once in a while, I will smell gas back there real bad after filling up and just driving around for a while. Gotta be the vapor canister or VSV clogging up with fuel from all the offcamber action...
 
Thanks for posting this as I am going after the same codes, but not the same issue with my 2001.

My only symptoms are check engine light and gas smell.

How does the quality seem between the Dorman and OEM?
 
That Dorman unit looks dang near identical! Usually Dorman has some slight cosmetic differences from the OEM part. The OEM can be had for about 280 bucks, where this one shows up around 180 on Amazon and other online vendors. I would be interested to see who actually supplies this part for Dorman, and they don't make anything themselves.

Where are you finding the Dorman unit for $180? I found it on amazon for $246

Also where did you find the OEM unit for $280? I see it at around ~$310
 
Where are you finding the Dorman unit for $180? I found it on amazon for $246

Also where did you find the OEM unit for $280? I see it at around ~$310

So weird. I can't seem to find anything for those prices. I'm finding what you did.

Makes the OEM unit even more appealing if it's not even 100 dollars more though.
 
Thanks for posting this as I am going after the same codes, but not the same issue with my 2001.

My only symptoms are check engine light and gas smell.

How does the quality seem between the Dorman and OEM?


As a side note, I’d recommend starting with the replacement of your gas cap first to see if that clears any codes. Just my .02


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I have been having a hot start issue for almost a year now. It will struggle, sometime die out and will start on the 2nd or 3rd try. Last week the car was idling in my driveway for about 15 minutes, and when I went to go pull out it died. The steering wheel was fully turned, not sure if that mattered or not. That has never happened before, so maybe I’ll check the canister. I do not have any trouble codes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
So weird. I can't seem to find anything for those prices. I'm finding what you did.

Makes the OEM unit even more appealing if it's not even 100 dollars more though.

Exactly for an extra $100 might as well go the OEM route to play it safe but would like to see if long term the Dorman canister holds up.
 

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