Truck was hard to center + Brake steer, then the Lower Ball Joint Failed

[RoofRack]

TLR Check your LBJs

SO.

I was having an issue where when I made a turn the truck did not want to center easily. I had to make the turn, then over steer to get it to center. Once it did, it tracked straight. No problem.

Issue two, perhaps unrelated: Brake steer to driver side at speed.

Result: When I got home this evening, with my two little boys in back, the Lower Ball joint on the driver side failed when we hit the soft curb at our driveway. Our route home includes freeway, and a roundabout. SUUUUUUPPPPPPER LUCKY!

Just popped right out and dropped onto the tire in the fender. Was going dead slow, so no other damage. Used a rolling floor jack to limp it out of the street. I'll get parts and fix it in the morning.

Looking to get this part from Napa: https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/ATMSB3804L/ATMSB3804L_0247552036

Anyone have experience with that?

Also, I've had the truck for about a year and a half. It has 220,000 miles and the previous owners maintenance log shows LBJs replaced at 200,000 miles. I got it at 203,000. That seems like a quick duty cycle to me...

-M

 

[Road Bull]

Don't Buy Those!

I will be the first of many to say. STOP. Do not buy those. Only buy genuine Toyota Lower Ball Joints. No substitutions on this one. No others have the quality or reliability that the OEM equipment offers. At ~$90 a side, it is worth it.

Order from Camelback Toyota. >> https://parts.camelbacktoyota.com/p...&component=&searchText=&startRow=31&maxRow=10

This might be one of the most important pieces that you change out. Don't swap out with an aftermarket part to save a few bucks and trade in piece of mind, especially if you have anyone you care about riding with you.

Trust us. It's not worth it to use something else.

***EDIT>> Check out this link http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/226456-best-aftermarket-lbjs.html << End EDIT***

 

[cantaloop]

OEM or nothing. I'm the one who started the above link^^. Your life is worth the $20-30 dollars more that it is for OEM stuff


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ZionXIX]

Getting new bolts are nice too. You have to buy them separately although I seem to have forgotten the part number.....

 

[Mykol]

getting new bolts are nice too. You have to buy them separately although i seem to have forgotten the part number.....

90080-10066

 

[JayRolla]

Oem oem oem oem oem oem oem oem

 

[fireweatherguy]

I agree. I just did my LBJ this summer with original parts ordered from Camelback Toyota.

 

[Rock_Rat]

^^^^^ OEM OEM OEM ^^^^^

I'm so glad everyone is safe! This could have ended differently.

Do you have a picture you can post?

 

[RoofRack]

Had to get the Napas. None at the dealer and I need to be driving this. The Senkai 555s were about $130, very nearly the same price as dealer. And they have a grease fitting. Of course they only had the one I need and the dealer only had the one I didn't need.

Will keep a close watch on these.

-M

 

[JayRolla]

Had to get the Napas. None at the dealer and I need to be driving this. The Senkai 555s were about $130, very nearly the same price as dealer. And they have a grease fitting. Of course they only had the one I need and the dealer only had the one I didn't need.

Will keep a close watch on these.

-M

You should have bought the cheapest ones possible if you needed it back that fast. Then ordered the OEM's online and replaced them immediately. They are about $75 each. You completely wasted money on those 555's. The difference between OEM and aftermarket is more than brand name. Denso at the parts store is trash compared to denso from Toyota. You can compare the two and they will always be different. Same with Senkai. The good stuff goes OEM, the cheap stuff goes to parts store.

Some have had aftermarkets fail in less than 30k miles. Some have pulled the Senkai 555's off and they where super loose, about to fail at very low mileage.

If I was you, I would avoid having your family in the car with those ball joints. That way if it fails, its just you that takes the hit. Please read following.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...tos-poor-quality-design-flaw-my-findings.html

 

[mtbtim]

Exactly what [MENTION=50342]JayRolla[/MENTION] said. Any knowledgeable 3rd Gen Owner is going to give you the same advice. Bite the bullet and take the loss on those aftermarket balljoints. There's way too much documentation on aftermarket balljoints failing very quickly. Order some OEM balljoints ASAP and redo the work. A couple hundred bucks isn't worth risking your safety and the safety of any passengers not to mention the extensive damage that can occur to your rig if the balljoint fails at high speed.

Listen to us when we say you are taking a HUGE risk sticking with those aftermarket balljoints.

 

[RoofRack]

I wonder if some of the failures come from not greasing them. They were dry before I filled them up.

-M

 

[SpidermanGeek]

I wonder if some of the failures come from not greasing them. They were dry before I filled them up.

-M

Nope. Grease or no grease, they'll just sheer right off out of the blue on you.

Even if you "keep an eye on them", the likelihood as that they'll fail suddenly within 30K miles.

 

[RoofRack]

Nope. Grease or no grease, they'll just sheer right off out of the blue on you.

Even if you "keep an eye on them", the likelihood as that they'll fail suddenly within 30K miles.

How do they mange to maintain a business making critical parts for such a common truck?

It just seems like in a law suit rich environment like the USA it would be hard to keep selling these.

-M

 

[Badmotorfinger]

The previous owner replaced them at 203k and they failed at 220k. That gives you about 17k until another failure. That's why everyone is warning you about aftermarket LBJs.

 

[RoofRack]

The previous owner replaced them at 203k and they failed at 220k. That gives you about 17k until another failure. That's why everyone is warning you about aftermarket LBJs.

Ordering from Camelback now.

For what it's worth, They gave plenty of warning, which I didn't know how to read. Seems like the centering difficulty is a common tell. Also a knock, which I couldn't locate. Also 4 Wheel Parts mentioned that it was loose, but OK for now, a few weeks ago when I have them balance the tires. Needless to say they won't be seeing the truck again.

Thanks for the info.

-M

 

[RoofRack]

Looks like it doesn't come with castle nuts or mounting bolts?

 

[AntleredRuin]

Looks like it doesn't come with castle nuts or mounting bolts?

Ba-Bam!

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/224912-another-lower-ball-joint-thread.html

 

[SpidermanGeek]

How do they mange to maintain a business making critical parts for such a common truck?

It just seems like in a law suit rich environment like the USA it would be hard to keep selling these.

-M

Risk vs Reward I suppose. Although these failures are "catastrophic", I have yet to here about a high rate of fatal injuries resulting from an LBJ failure. I'm sure it has happened... but obviously it hasn't been enough to prompt aftermarket parts companies to revise their formula.

The way it was explained to me is that aftermarket companies don't spend money on R&D for every make and model that they make parts for. It's more like a blanket R&D.

ie: "We'll use this steel & alloy combo and apply it to all the parts blueprints we acquire/copy."

The majority of applications will be just fine with this recipe. Lasting about as long as you'd expect a part built with lower standards would. Which again, suits the mass market just fine. you'll get 50-75K in a lot of cases across the board.

But then we get to the 4Runner. The overall design of the low ball joint is inefficient (ball under as opposed to over, or something like that). To overcome this, Toyota built their LBJ "Strong enough" to handle 150K+ miles, but it still remains the "weak link" for these trucks (especially compared to how long everything else lasts on these).

Now, again, for the mass market, people will DD their 4Runners and for the most parts, their aftermarket LBJs will hold up to the "easy driving" of your average North American car owner.

But, start adding things like oversized tires, a mild lift and weekend trips in the mountains and you are being more demanding on a very crucial part. A part that was/is simply BETTER BUILT by the original manufacturer because Toyota above everyone else KNOWS this particular design better than everyone.. because it's theirs.

I'm probably talking out of my butt, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but there IS a reason that everyone here recommends OEM and nothing else, ESPECIALLY for lower ball joints, is because there's enough cumulative data from the members here to back the claim up. Too many T4R.org members have had aftermarket lower ball joints fail on them at low mileage. The LBJs are also very sensitive to the installation process. Torque specs have to be adhered to as well as the overall procedure (ie: final torque of LBJ bolts must be done with wheels on the ground).

Do you trust the mechanic at the end of your street to know this?

Nobody knows these 3rd gens like the collective owners on T4R.org and again.. although the majority of 3rd gen 4runners out there will likely never have this problem (meaning the "gamble" pays off most of the time), are you willing to place that bet? Especially if you do more than fetch groceries or drop the kids off at School with your rig?

 

[RoofRack]

Sorry for the thread jack, but...

This is the second time I've seen this is a few weeks, when I never saw it anywhere else in my research the MONTHS leading up to my replacement. So, naturally, I torqued them while up in the air.
Where did this info come from? (I did not use any 'official' manual)

Everything looks and feels fine on them and it's been about 5k miles since. Should I loosen them and retorque while on the ground, or just keep watch on them? Is this just the 4 bolts per LBJ, or the Tie Rod and LBJ Castle nut as well?

I torqued the 4 bolts on the ground because it was hard to hold the wheel steady. But the castle I did in the air...

Castle in the air. Sounds nice.

Either way, the Haynes manual was useless for the torque procedure.


-M