Update on Ebay Problem

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wiseguy

New member
Last month I ordered a rear bumper guard from the seller suv-protech which did not fit my 06 4runner. It was listed as applicable to model years 03 to 06, but the change in the hitch configuration prevented it from fitting my 06. The seller was non-responsive and suggested I didn't know how to install it. Never mind the fact that the box said "03 to 05 4runner".

Since I received nothing besides the aforementioned response, I filed a complaint with Paypal. What a joke! The only selection you have on your ebay screen to dispute an item you have won is to select "item not received". I assumed I would be contacted by paypal to give my input on the situation, but that never happened and every message I ever received from paypal always said not to respond to the email. The seller provided proof of shipment and that was enough for paypal to rule in the sellers favor. The moral of the story is this is an easy way to rip people off; send them a box with dirt or newspaper in it and retain the proof of delivery. When they complain to paypal you just provide the proof of delivery and the dispute is over.

So stay away from the ebay sellersuv-protech as he sucks. And the funniest thing is that he continues to list the bumper guards on ebay, still listing them as applicable to the 06 model year. More people will get ripped off and paypal will continue to allow it.
 
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One more thing to add to my story.........

I am also contesting the transaction with my credit card issuer. I am more optimistic there as they actually had a form I filled out detailing the problem. I even sent a picture of the box end showing it did not fit an 06 and a copy of the original listing. I hope they don't tell me I first have to send it back at my expense as that would be costly.
 
I had stated in your first post that ebay and paypal are in it together. They scratch each others backs. They could care less about any of the problems as long as they get their %.

Another way is to file a complaint with paypal that the item was not as described and that might work.
 
did you check the sellers ratings before you bid for his item? For me, I will only bid if the seller is above 98%. Good way to stay away from situations like yours.

Try what Hivel suggested. It's a better approach.
 
HiVel-JR said:
I had stated in your first post that ebay and paypal are in it together. They scratch each others backs. They could care less about any of the problems as long as they get their %.

Another way is to file a complaint with paypal that the item was not as described and that might work.
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Ebay and paypal are the same company, well paypal is run by ebay..

Go to paypal.com
and look at the bottom, there is a link to ebay, along with many other blatant things showing the link between the two..

Its funny cause ebay(which is paypal) actually double-dips the person selling the item
They charge a listing fee, and they charge a % to receive money via paypal to the seller..

Who ever runs ebay/paypal is ROLLLLING in $$$ there is NO DOUBT about that.
 
Proof


From
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/about-outside
Founded in 1998, PayPal, an eBay Company, enables any individual or business with an email address to securely, easily and quickly send and receive payments online. PayPal's service builds on the existing financial infrastructure of bank accounts and credit cards and utilizes the world's most advanced proprietary fraud prevention systems to create a safe, global, real-time payment solution.
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The seller did have a 100% rating, but ratings are a bit meaningless in my opinion. Since most sellers do not leave feedback right away (which they should since all I can do as a buyer is pay promptly), they hold you hostage with the feedback; i.e. I will leave you good feedback if you leave me good feedback. In the case at hand, I have not left negative feedback yet as I know the seller will ding me and I will lose my perfect rating.

When I went to my paypal account to see if I could restart the complaint process, no luck as I was just referred to the closed case. I figured paypal would not help me, now I am anxious to hear from my credit card issuer. By the way, the guard can be made to work, just going to take a couple of hours of work to do some cutting of the hitch ends and modification to the brackets.

Thanks for all the feedback I received on this post.
 
Is your 4Runner a V8? The V8 has a different hitch than the V6. The V8 hitch attaches to the frame rails whereas the V6 hitch only attaches to the rear crossmember, leaving the frame rails available for bumper guards. I'm pretty sure the T&H and a few other bumper guards attach to the frame rails as well, which isn't possible with the V8 hitch. Only the early 2003 V8s have the V6 style hitch.
 
wiseguy said:
I filed a complaint with Paypal. What a joke! The only selection you have on your ebay screen to dispute an item you have won is to select "item not received". I assumed I would be contacted by paypal to give my input on the situation, but that never happened and every message I ever received from paypal always said not to respond to the email.
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I have had good luck with PayPal complaints and am afraid you may have messed up when opening your complaint.

At the first screen you choose either "I did not receive an item I purchased or the item I received is significantly not as described." or you can file complaint if an unauthorized charge was on your account. After putting in your item number the next screen gives you two options, "I have not received anything from the seller." or "I received my item, but it was significantly different than the seller's description."

Obviously the second one would have been the one you wanted. It then sends you to a screen to select exactly what was wrong with the item and to compose a message to the seller that shows up in the Resolution center. If you had picked the "I have not received anything from the seller." option then the seller only has to show proof that the item was shipped which he did and the case is closed.

Unfortunately, you are not allowed to open more than one complaint on the same transaction after the complaint has been closed even if you put in the wrong complaint description. After filing the complaint it says; "Once a dispute is closed, it cannot be re-opened or escalated to a claim." In the resolution center you can monitor the progress of your dispute or choose to escalate it to a complaint and let PayPal make a ruling which it seems they already did.

Hope that helps it make a little more sense.
 
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Now that you mention it, I do recall there was an option to the effect of "item was not as described" or something like that. When I claimed I never received it, I thought maybe the seller would blow off paypal the way he did me. I was also under the impression that I would be asked for more details by paypal; instead I was never able to present any input of any sort. And technically I did not receive the item as I did not receive a bumper guard that would fit an 06.

I hope this thread is educational to everyone who has read it. It is a dry topic, but one that may help all of us navigate the ebay/paypal waters.

Today I received a letter from my credit card issuer saying they investigated my complaint and reversed the charges. However, the letter also states that the charge will be rebilled if the merchant's bank sends evidence that the charge is valid. If the charge is reinstated I will be very pissed at my cc issuer as I provided them a lengthy explanation on their form and provided them a picture of the box which shows the guard is only for 03 to 05 4runners. At least with my cc issuer I can call in and actually talk to someone........ I am still out $55 as paypal charged against my then balance before putting the rest on the cc. This will be interesting to see where things go from here; stay tuned.
 
wiseguy said:
Now that you mention it, I do recall there was an option to the effect of "item was not as described" or something like that. When I claimed I never received it, I thought maybe the seller would blow off paypal the way he did me. I was also under the impression that I would be asked for more details by paypal; instead I was never able to present any input of any sort. And technically I did not receive the item as I did not receive a bumper guard that would fit an 06.
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Just playing devils advocate here, but you did technically receive a bumper guard, just the wrong one. The description said it fits 03-06 which it does, just not the V8 model. I agree that the seller is on the wrong, but he may be able to show the same proof to his bank as he did to paypal and have it reversed. Hopefully you are able to get it worked out!

I am familiar with this seller since I sent an email to them back around feb. regarding this same product asking if it would fit my 06 V8 with the load distributing hitch and they replied back with something like they keep no records on which vehicles the products fit. The same question was also posted on this board in one of the rear bumper guard threads with no luck so I gave up on the idea. Sorry it has turned in to such a hassle!
 
Hey Promed, I did receive a bumper guard, just one that did not fit. I did not know the hitch was different between the v6 and v8, I ordered it based on the fact that the listing said it would fit an 06. Based on the response you received from the seller, sounds like he doesn't know what fits. The end of the box said it fit an 03-05, so I guess that is the definitive fit guide. This latter fact may have been what influenced my credit card issuer to reverse the charge as I sent them a picture of the box end.
 
wiseguy said:
Hey Promed, I did receive a bumper guard, just one that did not fit. I did not know the hitch was different between the v6 and v8, I ordered it based on the fact that the listing said it would fit an 06. Based on the response you received from the seller, sounds like he doesn't know what fits. The end of the box said it fit an 03-05, so I guess that is the definitive fit guide. This latter fact may have been what influenced my credit card issuer to reverse the charge as I sent them a picture of the box end.
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The rear bumper didn't fit because you have a V8, not because it is an 06. Actually that same rear bumper produced in 04 would have said 03-04, even though it still would fit the 05-07 models (except the V8!) However I agree that the label is probably what helped encourage your bank to credit you back, but legally you can't just keep the (wrong) product sent to you and get a refund at the same time. It will be interesting to hear how it plays out, I hope you are able to keep your cash and are not forced to ship it back on your own dime!

I agree that ethically the seller is in the wrong here, but not so sure about legally.. That rear bumper guard will fit the 03-07 4runner, however it will probably not fit 04-07 V8 models since those years have the larger load distributing hitch. The seller is probably saying, "how should I have known?" and you the buyer are saying the same. It sucks all around, good luck!
 
Agree with you on both your points Promed. I am more than willing to ship the product back if the seller sends me a UPS call tag. I will not pay to ship it back since it was his mistake that caused me to receive the wrong product.

Regarding the point about the vagueness of the 06 applicability, a court would rule in my favor (at least here in Colorado) because vagueness in contracts usually works against the maker of the contract. In the case at hand, the seller was offering the product and inviting me to enter a contractual agreement with him. Since the contract was non-specific as to a v6 or v8, the courts would rule against him. This is basic contract law so the same concept should apply in most states.

Yes, it will be interesting to see the final outcome and I will post the final result later. Thanks for following my saga.
 
ProMed said:
The rear bumper didn't fit because you have a V8, not because it is an 06. Actually that same rear bumper produced in 04 would have said 03-04, even though it still would fit the 05-07 models (except the V8!)
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Correct me if I'm wrong...

1) This guard will fit 03-07 4runner V6's with stock hitches?

2) This guard will not fit 05-07 V8's with hitches?

3) This guard will fit all models v6 and v8's if there is NO hitch installed on it?
 
Jason B said:
Correct me if I'm wrong...
2) This guard will not fit 05-07 V8's with hitches?
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Shouldn't fit 2004 V8s as well, since those have the weight distributing hitch. I don't remember if the weight distributing hitch was offered in late 2003 or starting the 2004 MY.
 
Who the heck knows what models it will fit? The seller doesn't even seem to know based on the response received by someone else who posted a reply to this thread. Just stay away from the seller. The seller just indicated on his listing that it would fit the 03 to 06 model years with no reference to the type of engine or hitch.
 
wiseguy said:
Who the heck knows what models it will fit? The seller doesn't even seem to know based on the response received by someone else who posted a reply to this thread. Just stay away from the seller. The seller just indicated on his listing that it would fit the 03 to 06 model years with no reference to the type of engine or hitch.
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No doubt we all should avoid him/her, but that ebay seller is a reseller and not the producer of the part. I believe we should have it down down for which models it fits.

03-07 V6 with or without a hitch and possibly the 03 V8 w/ standard hitch
04-07 V8 w/ larger/lower weight distributing hitch.
 
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