Updated Lift Thread

[rickashay]

I will go over the lift gains from the 5100's in the thread, but lift measurements are subjective to the vehicle. Different years, different stock heights and amounts of sag. It will be a general lift amount and mary vary.

I think the best way to discuss the amount of "lift" is by eliminating the variable of having different stock heights on all model years of 4Runners. To do this, simply relate all "lift info" to hub-to-wheel well measurements. This way, people know roughly what to expect as a final height after the allotted lift is chosen.

I have taken initial measurements but am waiting for my NEW TRD coils to settle. I am sitting at 23" hub to wheel well, OR (in my particular case) about 3" lift from stock on the 2nd perch. I do believe they will sit around 2.75" when it settles with the amount of weight I currently run upfront... no armour or aftermarket skids other than Stubbs sliders.

 

[SCRunner12]

This is a great SC. I have never posted asked a question about this, but with the Tundra - LC coil lift, it always seems as if the rear is ass high no matter how high the TRDs are jacked up. People then counter that by saying go with 890s or 891s in the rear. I was always under the impression that OME springs give a harsh ride? Ok, so now your 4runner sits level or is just slightly raked as it should be (unlike with the LC coils in the rear) but isn't the rear now 10x rougher than the front? I'm talking unloaded here BTW because I will never have the rear constantly loaded down.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like there needs to be a coil in between the OME 890/891 and the LC coil. The LC coil is tall and not very thick, while the OME is short and thick. As far as spring rates and stuff--still learning. Just an idea to put in your thread if you run out of them.

Yeah the rear end of the 4runner needs some more options. The LC coils are great, but sag way too much under load and the 891's are stiff for a non armored DD. Toytec has come out with a new rear coil the "superflex" coils that yields 4" of lift. I'm not sure of the details of these as they aren't on the website (I can't find them), but they should be a great inbetween lift for the rear and hold up better to weight (My guess, not verified).
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/www-toyteclifts-com/93584-new-toytec-superflex-rear-coils.html

I will definitely be putting spring rates into the threads. Thanks for the suggestions. Also my 4runner has about an inch of rake, but I need to replace my front struts with the 5100's so I will have a better idea of where I will be at in a couple of weeks. I have Downey coils in the back and AFAIK I'm the only one on this site with the same coils. They gave me ~3.25-3.5 of lift in the back.

ok that makes sense. but more at what i was getting at with that, is thats the sort of info i(as im sure others on here) would like to see in a lift thead, not just "cant do it", or "dont do it" ect, we want to know why, we want to know what you know sorta thing

That is what I'm going to try and accomplish with the new thread. Give the opinions of the many who have used them and their opinions. Going above the 3rd setting isn't a can't do thing (possibly the 5 setting because that would be around 4.5" of lift), but more of a it is not recommended. I will be as subjective and open in the writings of the threads. I will let you know why it is not recommended and try to point out some real life experiences.

 

[madbomber08]

I have seen people run their OME coils with billy 5100s. econhonda just replaced his front shocks with taco billy 5100s and he has said the ride is a lot better than before.

What I can't seem to wrap my head around is how that thick of spring, even with the right shock, could yield a comfortable on-road ride?

 

[SCRunner12]

Its the OME shocks that give harsh ride, not the coils.. except the 891, its a extra load coil.

There are a few 3.5" lift coils, but they are hard to find. I know Downey makes a 3.5" HD coil. You can also pair a small spacer with the 890/891's.

Yeah the shocks do influence the OME coils, but the 891's are stiff just to begin with. There are two different Downey coils for the 3rd gen. One that Singtoe and APLBM (Not sure on screen name) use which yields 2.5-2.75" (I believe) of lift and the ones I have that gave me 3.25-3.5". It's hard to get info on those because they are out of business.

I think the best way to discuss the amount of "lift" is by eliminating the variable of having different stock heights on all model years of 4Runners. To do this, simply relate all "lift info" to hub-to-wheel well measurements. This way, people know roughly what to expect as a final height after the allotted lift is chosen.

I have taken initial measurements but am waiting for my NEW TRD coils to settle. I am sitting at 23" hub to wheel well, OR (in my particular case) about 3" lift from stock on the 2nd perch. I do believe they will sit around 2.75" when it settles with the amount of weight I currently run upfront... no armour or aftermarket skids other than Stubbs sliders.

Yeah the measurements are very helpful and I will include those as much as I can, but not everyone puts up their measurements from hub to fender and those can vary due to the user, time of measurement (suspension will sag after a little while, so initial measurements may be different than 2 months later) and ground level (was it done on flat ground or slight incline ect.). I will probably just give rough estimates that the companies claims and majority of the people claim. There is so much variation it's hard to eliminate all the variables, but I will do my best.

Thanks for the measurements and I think I will be happy with the 2 setting as well. It should clear the 285's I will be getting. :jump:

 

[4-Ripcord]

Yeah the shocks do influence the OME coils, but the 891's are stiff just to begin with. There are two different Downey coils for the 3rd gen. One that Singtoe and APLBM (Not sure on screen name) use which yields 2.5-2.75" (I believe) of lift and the ones I have that gave me 3.25-3.5". It's hard to get info on those because they are out of business.

ALBPM as the 3.5" downeys, he says he likes 'em.

Yeah the measurements are very helpful and I will include those as much as I can, but not everyone puts up their measurements from hub to fender and those can vary due to the user, time of measurement (suspension will sag after a little while, so initial measurements may be different than 2 months later) and ground level (was it done on flat ground or slight incline ect.). I will probably just give rough estimates that the companies claims and majority of the people claim. There is so much variation it's hard to eliminate all the variables, but I will do my best.

Thanks for the measurements and I think I will be happy with the 2 setting as well. It should clear the 285's I will be getting. :jump:

Take a look at this JEEP lift thread, its a neat idea. But they use more complete kits where we tend to piece things together. Still, maybe it will give you an idea.

XJ Lift Setups V2.0 - JeepForum.com

 

[SCRunner12]

I have seen people run their OME coils with billy 5100s. econhonda just replaced his front shocks with taco billy 5100s and he has said the ride is a lot better than before.

What I can't seem to wrap my head around is how that thick of spring, even with the right shock, could yield a comfortable on-road ride?

Yeah the 5100's Econ used are for the Taco/4runner so it has the correct seat for the OME/4runner coils. The Tundra 5100 has a larger seat to accommodate the larger coil. I have heard nothing but good things about the 5100's and look forward to getting mine in.

It's all about the spring rate and the fact they are progressive rate. Progressive rate coils get harder as they compress more, so it stays soft for a while before getting hard. (That just sounds bad and I'm not an expert on this, so if I'm wrong point it out.)

 

[Riggity]

My 2 cents

I have been doing a lot of research into lifts recently and as a noobie it would have saved me a lot time if there was something in the lift section about why the majority of people go to bigger springs or coilovers versus a "true lift" like Fabtech taco lift or solid axle swap. I'm not suggesting we need to have a lot of info on the page about them, but just a little. Like how the Fabtech doesn't increase your ground clearance in the front and how there is a possibility to mess up the frame from heavy wheeling (I think I saw this somewhere). As far as SAS goes maybe just like the a little on the different type and a link to addictedoffoad's build and 99 4Runner Limited Solid Axle Swap/Conversion . Also, like something on the cost of a SAS.

 

[SCRunner12]

ALBPM as the 3.5" downeys, he says he likes 'em.




Take a look at this JEEP lift thread, its a neat idea. But they use more complete kits where we tend to piece things together. Still, maybe it will give you an idea.

XJ Lift Setups V2.0 - JeepForum.com

Yeah ALBPM has the 3.5", but I believe they didn't net 3.5" of lift. I could be wrong, but I thought that's what he said in a PM I sent him. Hopefully he can chime in.

That Jeep thread is awesome and I may do that eventually, but that would take me 2-3x as long because I would have to track down all of the pictures, reviews, measurements and compile it. If I'm not burnt out after it all I will start working on it. Thanks for all the links, they definitely help a lot as I've never done this before and learning more and more about each lift through my research.

 

[SCRunner12]

I have been doing a lot of research into lifts recently and as a noobie it would have saved me a lot time if there was something in the lift section about why the majority of people go to bigger springs or coilovers versus a "true lift" like Fabtech taco lift or solid axle swap. I'm not suggesting we need to have a lot of info on the page about them, but just a little. Like how the Fabtech doesn't increase your ground clearance in the front and how there is a possibility to mess up the frame from heavy wheeling (I think I saw this somewhere). As far as SAS goes maybe just like the a little on the different type and a link to addictedoffoad's build and 99 4Runner Limited Solid Axle Swap/Conversion . Also, like something on the cost of a SAS.

I will definitely go into the Fabtech (drop bracket lifts) to an extent. I'm not too familiar with them, but a few member (baja runner, flexinc) have had them so I will contact them for info. As far as SAS, I have no clue about them or all the details. Honestly I will just point those interested towards Scotty, Pirate4x4 and yotatech. They will be the experts and I can't give any details on those. I would love to know all about them though.

 

[99SC4Runner]

SCRunner,

I just received my new 5100 adjustables in the mail today.

With my TRD Tundra coils, ARB Sahara front bumper, and MileMarker 9500 winch in the front, do you think I should try it on the 4th perch setting since I seem to get about 1" of sag in the front due to the extra weight?

My OME 891s in the back with Monroe air shocks with 10# of air in them, I'm sure is giving me 3" or a little over that in lift.

Thanks,

Doug

 

[SCRunner12]

^^Honestly I'm not too sure. I know Big Fish has the SS1.2 and an ARB with a winch so contacting him would be the best. I've only learned about the 5100's recently and need to do some more research. I'm sure he has it somewhere in his build thread, so I will check there.

Ripcord beat me to it, but here part where he highers it in his build. He doesn't mention though what clip he is at in the thread. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/68346-i-found-one-2001-sport-ed-trd-scd-13.html

 

[4-Ripcord]

Tundra 5100's have 5 settings and the 4Runner/Tacoma 5100's only have 3. Bigfish has the 4Runner 5100's and his set to the middle one.

 

[SCRunner12]

Thanks Ripcord. That is good to know for the thread.

 

[IanB]

Tundra 5100's have 5 settings and the 4Runner/Tacoma 5100's only have 3. Bigfish has the 4Runner 5100's and his set to the middle one.

I believe they are valved differently as well, aren't they?

 

[99SC4Runner]

I would think they would be valved differently due to the weight of the vehicle they are designed for.

 

[rickashay]

I would think they would be valved differently due to the weight of the vehicle they are designed for.

^This is true. Also from what I understand the Tundra Bilstein 5100's are the same shocks that the Sonoran Steel lift uses that are "specially valved." According to the part #'s that I have seen cross referenced in other people's build threads ie. "Mauzer".

SCRunner - it would be great to find some info on the spring rates of the LC coils as well. I know you mentioned it about OME, but I also know that the 7,8,9 wraps are weighted differently although, I dont have any numbers that say so. I have heard that the 8 wraps have the highest spring rate?

Also, it might be wise to touch on bump stops and limiting straps. I know That BigFish and Dirtco were having some interference/contact between the coil and the spindle on their SS lift kits and needed to install limit straps. I had minor contact on my OME 881's.

 

[SCRunner12]

Rick: I will definitely get spring rates on the LC coils. I believe Gerdo posted them up not too long ago, so I will go off those. I will try to get some info on bump stops and limiting straps, but my knowledge is limited in those fields. I will do some research and limiting straps will be explained a bit in the Tundra thread, since they have been needed with the Tundra coils.

Also I have tried to find some info on the valving of the 5100's, no luck yet. I will keep searching.

 

[99SC4Runner]

Well I just got done installing the 5100 adjustables on the front of my 99 4Runner that had the TRD Tundra coils on 4Runner Monroe Sensa trac struts.

Gravel driveway, out in the open 30* night air, hand tools, and flourescent trouble light.

I ended up putting the clips on the 3rd groove on the struts and then I was debating on whether to just stick them in, or add the ToyTec top plate spacers to them like I had with the Monroe struts.

I took a chance and added the top plate spacers because I thought if I put the clip on the 4th groove, it might have a harsh ride.

My front was at this height before the 5100 struts;

LF - 22"
RF - 22.25"

Now with the 5100's - 3rd groove and top plate spacers;

LF - 23.25"
RF - 23.5"

I'll have to park it somewhere level tomorrow and get measurements of front and rear to see how level it is.

I need to run around 25 - 30# of air in my rear air shocks, but I've been only running 10# because of how much it already was raked in the front with the old setup.