"Upgraded" Rotors/Pads necessary for extra weight?

[The_Perrycox]

Good Evening T4R Fam, just a quick question that I seem to be finding conflicting information on.

I'm due to replace rotors/pads/calipers here soon. My plan was to utilize Powerstop Calipers with OEM pads and rotors since mine have lasted so long. However, I've added a fair amount of weight via larger wheels and tires, as well as a Demello front bumper and a winch being installed soon. Eventually, a rear bumper and a Prinsu.

Does this extra weight necessitate aftermarket rotors and pads? I was looking at EBC Ultimax Rotors with EBC Green Stuff pads. I see lots of suggestions for the Hawk Pads, as well as Akebono.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[MAST4R]

Weight wise stock should be fine up to GVWR. Right?

But heavy wheels and tires do make things worse. I used Hawk 5.0 on my Outback and they were phenomenal with LTD KO2s. Stock rotors.

HPS 5.0 were not noisy, only in rare occasions. Not great from start on cold mornings but amazing thereafter.

Most heavy duty pads can be quite noisy. The Raybestos ATD (?)on our other Subaru are like a school bus under like 60F. Great bite and more tolerant of cold than HPS 5.0 but not as good overall.

Something gotta give usually but the 5.0 are close to as good as tech allows right now imo.

Green EBC are basic pads not really an upgrade.

Had no issues with 5.0 wear and I used them heavily offroad. Never faded. Also great wear on the Raybestos.

 

[Ed_C]

Have the wheel cleaner handy if you plan to run Greenstuffs, their "virtually dust free" 7000 series Green stuff are just as dusty as the standard 6000's.

They don't tow or anything, but I installed Raybestos EHT pads on my parents' GX470. No scientific testing to back it up but they seem to have better bite when cold compared to the Akebonos I previously installed.

 

[riceandpho]

hawk lts pads works well for me, but i do use stoptech slotted rotors and also ss lines. this with fresh fluid will help even more.

 

[Boort]

[MENTION=177122]The_Perrycox[/MENTION]

I'm due to replace rotors/pads/calipers here soon.
...
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

I can't speak to how well the aftermarket options work for stopping power.

Have you considered switching to the larger sport model brakes? You'll need 17" rims with enough room to clear the larger calipers. Look up "sport tundra brakes" here on the forums.
Here are some of the threads I have bookmarked:

• How To: Upgrading to Sport Brakes (319 to 338mm)
• 4th Gen Brake Upgrade Glock_19 by Ducmonsta
• Sport Edition Brakes vs. Tundra Brake (Upgrade)

Boort

 

[Terminator03]

If you’re running Powerstop calipers anyway, why not get their rotors with the Z34 Extreme pads. The pads are designed for towing, and heavy duty use which is why I bought them. They don’t seem to make much, if any more dust than any other pad since they are still ceramic, but they definitely drag this heavy ass vehicle down when they need to! I carry a lot of extra weight in tools for my job every day, which is why I opted for them, and I occasionally tow my boat, as well as other trailer with up to a ton of extra weight on that. I opted for the 5th gen calipers all around, but only the 5th gen size rotors in the front, as the rear rotors have no advantage for the 5th gen, and they had dimensional differences like the center bore that can cause issues for some who have used them. Because it was a mix/match package, I bought the rotor kits in pairs, which came with the Z34 pads, and bought the calipers separately in pairs as well instead of just buying a complete kit to do the whole truck.

 

[ElZilcho]

I started writing this saying that you should be fine on stock equipment, but I did a bit of research and changed my opinion. (I'm even considering it now.) Upgraded pads might not be a bad idea. I did a bit of napkin math and figured a 10% increase in wheel diameter and a 10% increase in weight ends up being about a 15% overall reduction in total braking effectiveness (not necessarily stopping distance in a single hard stop) which is significant.

Stickier pads will help with single stop distance (assuming you're not already capable of locking the brakes at speed). Higher temp pads will help with preventing fade under repeated heavy braking but only if the rotors can shed the heat AND your brake fluid doesn't boil at those temps. Larger rotors will help shed the heat. So...

I personally am going to look into pads and check when I last bled my brakes. If you're only trying to maintain stock like performance/safety I think upgraded rotors/calipers are probably unnecessary.

FWIW, I've always had good experiences with Akebono pads and Raybestos rotors; Though I've heard positive things about EBC and Hawk (I just don't have as much experience). Also, "upgraded" pads are ALWAYS a compromise. They might be stickier, but they will almost always squeal, throw more dust, be more difficult to modulate at low temp, etc. Any "upgraded" pad that claims otherwise isn't selling brakes... it's selling marketing wank.

 

[Terminator03]

I started writing this saying that you should be fine on stock equipment, but I did a bit of research and changed my opinion. (I'm even considering it now.) Upgraded pads might not be a bad idea. I did a bit of napkin math and figured a 10% increase in wheel diameter and a 10% increase in weight ends up being about a 15% overall reduction in total braking effectiveness (not necessarily stopping distance in a single hard stop) which is significant.

Stickier pads will help with single stop distance (assuming you're not already capable of locking the brakes at speed). Higher temp pads will help with preventing fade under repeated heavy braking but only if the rotors can shed the heat AND your brake fluid doesn't boil at those temps. Larger rotors will help shed the heat. So...

I personally am going to look into pads and check when I last bled my brakes. If you're only trying to maintain stock like performance/safety I think upgraded rotors/calipers are probably unnecessary.

FWIW, I've always had good experiences with Akebono pads and Raybestos rotors; Though I've heard positive things about EBC and Hawk (I just don't have as much experience). Also, "upgraded" pads are ALWAYS a compromise. They might be stickier, but they will almost always squeal, throw more dust, be more difficult to modulate at low temp, etc. Any "upgraded" pad that claims otherwise isn't selling brakes... it's selling marketing wank.

I agree with you on most performance pads having compromises, and I was fully anticipating that based on many past experiences with aftermarket performance based pads. I have to say that I was very pleasantly surprised with the Z34 pads though, and would buy them again in a heartbeat. I have had no squealing, extra dust, or low temp performance issues with these, and I installed them late last fall and ran them in very low temps all winter. I went with the Powerstop stuff mainly for the added corrosion resistance of the powder coated calipers, and heavy zinc coating on the discs. The extra bling of the drilled/slotted rotors wasn’t something I was particularly wanting, or needing, but they do look sharp, and have had no negative effects, so I’m pleased with them. I’m planning to get a set for my Miata as well, since I’m tired of looking at the rusty rotors, even though the brakes are still working fine. That car has very open, 5 spoke wheels so the Powerstop rotors should look pretty sweet on there, unlike my runner, where they barely show, unless looking closely.

 

[The_Perrycox]

I agree with you on most performance pads having compromises, and I was fully anticipating that based on many past experiences with aftermarket performance based pads. I have to say that I was very pleasantly surprised with the Z34 pads though, and would buy them again in a heartbeat. I have had no squealing, extra dust, or low temp performance issues with these, and I installed them late last fall and ran them in very low temps all winter. I went with the Powerstop stuff mainly for the added corrosion resistance of the powder coated calipers, and heavy zinc coating on the discs. The extra bling of the drilled/slotted rotors wasn’t something I was particularly wanting, or needing, but they do look sharp, and have had no negative effects, so I’m pleased with them. I’m planning to get a set for my Miata as well, since I’m tired of looking at the rusty rotors, even though the brakes are still working fine. That car has very open, 5 spoke wheels so the Powerstop rotors should look pretty sweet on there, unlike my runner, where they barely show, unless looking closely.

I was pretty set on that kit initially. After reading a lot of negative comments about drilled rotors+off road use being a bad idea, I've had to rethink my process. It's a shame, as I can get the entire front kit from Amazon for less than $400 after rebate.

While I'm replacing the fronts in their entirety, should I go ahead and replace everything in the rear as well? Obviously it wouldn't hurt to do so...but is it completely necessary?

 

[Terminator03]

I was pretty set on that kit initially. After reading a lot of negative comments about drilled rotors+off road use being a bad idea, I've had to rethink my process. It's a shame, as I can get the entire front kit from Amazon for less than $400 after rebate.

While I'm replacing the fronts in their entirety, should I go ahead and replace everything in the rear as well? Obviously it wouldn't hurt to do so...but is it completely necessary?

Not if the rears aren’t seized or otherwise messed up. In my case, I had a frozen front caliper, AND ended up having a catastrophic failure on one rear where I lost a pad, piston came out too far, all the fluid was pumped out in seconds! In your case, if everything is working as it should, I’d maybe replace the pads, and possibly rotors (if they are grooved or badly worn). While apart though, be sure to clean the calipers and re-lube everything.

I read all that stuff about drilled/slotted calipers too. Most is internet fear mongering on most sites with regard to cracking and warping, unless you go with really cheap Chinese hardware. I suppose the heavy off road use may hold some merit though, since the grooves could in theory hold mud/dirt, possibly accelerating wear, or pad failure. Not sure on that since my only real experience has been in performance street use over a couple of decades. I’m kind of new to the off road stuff. I’ve been through mud, snow, water, etc. and have had zero issues with the Powerstop stuff so far. I don’t do anything extreme like some on here do though.

 

[The_Perrycox]

Thanks for all of your help fellas!

I opted to go with the larger calipers up front, with Centric Premium Rotors all around in the appropriate sizes. For pads I went with the Hawk LTS. I am also going to have all my lines changed over to stainless via the Goodridge 6 piece kit. Will make sure I get fresh fluid in there as well obviously.

Most jobs I like to tackle on my own, but when it comes to things that are lifesaving I'm inclined to have my mechanic do it...especially considering that I've not worked on brakes before!