URD 7th Injector install

[paddlenbike]

Did your URD ECU come with a pre-loaded map?

Some trucks require a little more timing retard than others. Adding the URD kit reduced my pinging, but I still had some. I went in and add a little more timing retard and it completely addressed the problem. Drive it around for a while and let the Toyota ECU learn, take note of where it pings, then add 10% of retard (or so) in the timing table.

 

[PNW yota]

I assume it has a pre loaded map. I contacted urd and they said I shouldn't have to do any tuning get get rid of the engine ping, so I figure there is something already programmed.

I'm going to try replacing the fuel filter while I track down a PC lap top. Maybe I'll get lucky and the new fuel pump can't push enough through the old filter (looks original), until WOT. Since my ping only happens under normal acceleration.

 

[TRD 4RNR]

Considering the 7th Injector
Subscribed to this thread

 

[paddlenbike]

I assume it has a pre loaded map. I contacted urd and they said I shouldn't have to do any tuning get get rid of the engine ping, so I figure there is something already programmed.

I'm going to try replacing the fuel filter while I track down a PC lap top. Maybe I'll get lucky and the new fuel pump can't push enough through the old filter (looks original), until WOT. Since my ping only happens under normal acceleration.

Replacing the fuel filter is a good idea, I did it also as part of my URD install. That statement that "you shouldn't have to make any adjustments" is hogwash, there is no one-size-fits-all to account for engine and fueling variability, elevation, other modifications like headers, etc. While the pre-loaded map is better than no map, it really is just a starting point. Adding just 1.5 degrees of retard to certain areas of the map was enough to take care of pinging that was present with the preloaded map. A little tuning can go a long way.

 

[RussToy]

I just purchased the URD 7th injector...still looking for a S/C. Reading up on what I might run into!

@PNWyoda what's the highest octane yall have in Oregon? I've read lately that California only has 91 octane (don't know why..I thought everybody had 93?!?). Anyway..just wondering if that's might be part of your problem?? Here in Ohio, we have 93 octane and if you want to get crazy...we have Cam2 which I believe is 110 octane @$4.xx a gallon!

Just trying to help...good luck!!

 

[PNW yota]

I think we have 92 octane for premium gas here, not sure. I'll have to pay closer attention next time I fill up.

[MENTION=9596]paddlenbike[/MENTION]: Did you only adjust the timing on your map or did you make changes to the injector calibration too? I have no idea what the open-loop/closed-loop the guide is talking about.

I don't own a wideband sensor or a scan tool which are also brought up in the guide...

As I said I don't know anything about tuning.

Thanks for the help guys

 

[paddlenbike]

[MENTION=9596]paddlenbike[/MENTION]: Did you only adjust the timing on your map or did you make changes to the injector calibration too? I have no idea what the open-loop/closed-loop the guide is talking about.

I don't own a wideband sensor or a scan tool which are also brought up in the guide...

As I said I don't know anything about tuning.

Thanks for the help guys

I did make adjustments to both. To control the ping, just take note of roughly what rpm range you notice the ping most. Then you would add more timing retard in that range. For example, you could add say 10 percent timing retard at 2000 rpms across all boost levels and see how it goes. In the end, that's pretty much where I ended up, although I used a bit more scientific method.

As for fueling, you will be tuning pretty blindly without a wideband, and quite frankly you may not need more fueling than what's already in the map, you just won't know without the wideband.

Start with the timing control, pinging is hard on the engine internals.

 

[RussToy]

I haven't opens my 7th injector box from URD yet. What all do you need to do your tuning? I just read its good to have wideband sensor and a scan tool...I'm assuming I'll need a laptop? So is the cable that connects the laptop to the 4Runner and the tuning program include in the 7th injector kit?? Or is that something you have to buy separately from URD?

Is there anything else that I will need to complete my tune? I'm really surprised everybody is needing to do this. When I spoke with "Gaget"...he advised 98% won't have to mess with this...only guys wanting absolutely all the power they can get will need to tune. So we never talked anymore about it. Like I said...I'm trying to get all my stuff together while I'm searching for my S/C.

Thanks...

 

[paddlenbike]

If your truck doesn't ping and runs the way you think it should, then I agree, you don't need to do any of this. Think of it this way, with just the pre-loaded map from URD, you are way ahead of the trucks that have nothing at all. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

In my case, I still had some pinging, and that's probably because 97% of these trucks sold with automatic transmissions and that is likely what the URD tune is based on. The engine makes a ton of power even at 1500 RPMs, and it's easy to get lazy and not make a downshift when I should, which causes it to ping. (An automatic would never allow this.) I could teach myself to not drive that way, but why? I want this to run perfect under any condition. Just a little bit more timing retard at those low RPM ranges fixed the issue.

If you find you want to tune, you may need a few things. For one, most laptops do not have a serial port, so you'll need a $15 serial-to-usb adapter and you'll want to install the R4 software that comes with the URD kit. It's spreadsheet based, and looks like this: (ignore the shading)

You can only adjust two things, you can 1) ADD more timing retard and you can 2) add more fuel. You can't take either away. So if it pings at 2000 RPM, just increase the number in the cells around 2000 RPMs and across the boost range. If there's not enough fuel at 5500 RPMs, increase the numbers in the cells.

So for timing, you can do it with no tools at all. Note the RPM range where it pings and add retard. If you want to adjust fueling, then you need a wideband, which costs $170. In my case, the pre-loaded map is fine but I needed more fueling at high RPMs, (probably because an automatic would have shifted while I can run mine to the RPM cut), so I added a little more fuel starting at 5000 RPMs.

I hope that helps. It's really not that difficult once you mess with it for a bit.

 

[PNW yota]

Installed a new OEM fuel filter which seemed to help a little. Regardless it needed a new one.

Tried some octane boost which seems to be a waste of $12. I tried Lucas brand which I figured was reputable but made no difference. Our fuel here is 92 octane to begin with, but we have a pretty heavy methanol mix in winter.

I ordered a fitting and cable from amazon to try programming the timing (couldn't justify $35 at RadioShack). Had to get a 9 pin serial to USB to fit any PC laptop I can get ahold of. And becaus of the location I chose to store the AIC I needed a 90 degree elbow to route the cable out. Should be here next week and I'll begin tuning.

Paying more attention to the ping. It starts are 1800-2000 and continues until 2500. From there on up its hard to hear over the SC, but I don't think it pings.

 

[Dirtyfingers]

Installed a new OEM fuel filter which seemed to help a little. Regardless it needed a new one.

Tried some octane boost which seems to be a waste of $12. I tried Lucas brand which I figured was reputable but made no difference. Our fuel here is 92 octane to begin with, but we have a pretty heavy methanol mix in winter.

I ordered a fitting and cable from amazon to try programming the timing (couldn't justify $35 at RadioShack). Had to get a 9 pin serial to USB to fit any PC laptop I can get ahold of. And becaus of the location I chose to store the AIC I needed a 90 degree elbow to route the cable out. Should be here next week and I'll begin tuning.

Paying more attention to the ping. It starts are 1800-2000 and continues until 2500. From there on up its hard to hear over the SC, but I don't think it pings.

What about bigger injectors?

Is the pinging more like a slap? It could be the piston crown coming into contact with the top of the head. Or the spark plug itself. Or maybe I'm thinking of the two stage air compressors we use on my ship...

 

[paddlenbike]

Our fuel here is 92 octane to begin with, but we have a pretty heavy methanol mix in winter.

91 is the highest we can get here in California.

I ordered a fitting and cable from amazon to try programming the timing (couldn't justify $35 at RadioShack). Had to get a 9 pin serial to USB to fit any PC laptop I can get ahold of. And becaus of the location I chose to store the AIC I needed a 90 degree elbow to route the cable out. Should be here next week and I'll begin tuning.

I posted about that here Did you install your piggyback under the stereo console?

Paying more attention to the ping. It starts are 1800-2000 and continues until 2500. From there on up its hard to hear over the SC, but I don't think it pings.

That is exactly where mine was pinging. You shouldn't get any ping at all over 3000 RPMs, that is when the knock sensors come online and start listening for knock. It is common for gasoline engines to ignore the knock sensor at lower RPMs because they can't differentiate between lugging sounds and actual pinging.

 

[PNW yota]

Haha yeah it's sitting just under the power outlets still wrapped in its bubble wrap from the shipping box. I was a bit worried it isn't physically bolted to anything but I called urd and he said it should be fine. All the other locations suggested were taken, short of pulling out the gauge cluster. This seemed easier,but I wasn't planning to plug it into anything to tune, so that's why I'm ordering the cables so late.

I ordered exactly what you pictured with a 5" serial to USB that I'll leave plugged in and run an extension off when I need it.

Looking forward to killing this engine ping once and for all! :sniper:

 

[paddlenbike]

My stock URD timing map looked like this:
0 timing retard at 0 psi
0.3 at 0.5 psi
0.7 at 1 psi
0.9 at 1.5 psi
1.3 at 2 psi
1.5 at 2.5 psi
1.9 at 3 psi
2.1 at 3.5 psi
2.5 at 4 psi
2.8 at 4.5 psi
3.2 at 5 psi
3.5 at 5.5 psi
3.8 at 6 psi
4.1 at 6.5 psi
4.4 at 7 psi
4.8 at 7.5 psi ...and so on.

My timing now looks like:
0.4 at 0.5 psi
0.9 at 1 psi
1.5 at 1.5 psi
2 at 2 psi
2.5 at 2.5 psi
3 at 3 psi
3.3 at 3.5 psi
3.5 at 4 psi
3.7 at 4.5 psi
4.2 at 5 psi
4.6 at 5.5 psi
5.1 at 6 psi
5.4 at 6.5 psi
5.8 at 7 psi
6.4 at 7.5 psi and so on.

Basically, I added tenths of degrees of retard at low boost levels, around 1 degree of additional retard through most of the boost range, peaking out at 1.6 degrees of additional retard at 7.5 psi, which is as high as I can go on my stock pulley. Keep in mind, you should keep running the numbers out to the end of the timing table (16 psi) in a similar fashion just in case the boost were to somehow spike.

That small (~1 degree or so) of additional ignition retard above and beyond the amount URD had programmed in took care of my ping.

Let me know how it goes.

 

[PNW yota]

So I received my cable and connector this morning and attempted to download drivers needed to get my PC to talk to the ECU, no luck getting the cable to connect. After fighting it for a while I called URD for help, he told me that cheap online cables have crappy chipsets and don't often work. So down to best buy I go and shell out $25 on a cable and sure enough it did the trick! Just wasted a couple weeks waiting for my Amazon dud to get here :mmph:

So no I have the ECU talking to the PC and the split second software running. Trying to follow the U-Tune guide and I swear I'm reading braille!

Do I need to need to have the engine setting for 3 cylinder 2 stroke or not?

Am I using Map A or Map B to adjust timing? From what your numbers look like I assume Map A.

Also did you keep those numbers through all RPM's at a specific Boost? For example my original map shows at 4Psi of boost timing at 2.5 up through 3500 RPM then switches to 1.0. And all of the higher Psi ranges climb to a certain point, then drop back down at certain higher RPM ranges.

Sorry if these are stupid questions but URD support isn't calling me back and as I said before I no nothing about this stuff...

 

[PNW yota]

My stock URD timing map looked like this:
0 timing retard at 0 psi
0.3 at 0.5 psi
0.7 at 1 psi
0.9 at 1.5 psi
1.3 at 2 psi
1.5 at 2.5 psi
1.9 at 3 psi
2.1 at 3.5 psi
2.5 at 4 psi
2.8 at 4.5 psi
3.2 at 5 psi
3.5 at 5.5 psi
3.8 at 6 psi
4.1 at 6.5 psi
4.4 at 7 psi
4.8 at 7.5 psi ...and so on.

My timing now looks like:
0.4 at 0.5 psi
0.9 at 1 psi
1.5 at 1.5 psi
2 at 2 psi
2.5 at 2.5 psi
3 at 3 psi
3.3 at 3.5 psi
3.5 at 4 psi
3.7 at 4.5 psi
4.2 at 5 psi
4.6 at 5.5 psi
5.1 at 6 psi
5.4 at 6.5 psi
5.8 at 7 psi
6.4 at 7.5 psi and so on.

Basically, I added tenths of degrees of retard at low boost levels, around 1 degree of additional retard through most of the boost range, peaking out at 1.6 degrees of additional retard at 7.5 psi, which is as high as I can go on my stock pulley. Keep in mind, you should keep running the numbers out to the end of the timing table (16 psi) in a similar fashion just in case the boost were to somehow spike.

That small (~1 degree or so) of additional ignition retard above and beyond the amount URD had programmed in took care of my ping.

Let me know how it goes.

For example @ 7.5 Psi my pre loaded map says

From 500-3000 rpm 4.8
Then: 3500: 4.3
4000: 2.2
And from 4500 up to 8000 it shows 0

So when you tuned the timing your example to me was 6.4 at 7.5 of boost, so was that from 500-8000 rpm?

 

[paddlenbike]

Here is what mine looks like. This won't work for everyone, but it took care of my low RPM pinging for my manual transmission truck that lives near sealevel with summertime temperatures at or above 100 degrees.

 

[PNW yota]

I did something similar to your map. I've been watching the real time data for when my ping starts and I'm getting it around -5 to -3 mmHg of vacuum so I've been adding a few tenths of retard to those areas on the map. It seems to be getting better each time I adjust it.

Thanks for your help

 

[paddlenbike]

Something I would like to do in the future is start smoothing the timing retard out sooner. I think my 4Runner mostly needs the timing adjustment at the really low RPMs.

 

[PNW yota]

Something I would like to do in the future is start smoothing the timing retard out sooner. I think my 4Runner mostly needs the timing adjustment at the really low RPMs.

Well I'm still trying to work it out I'm up to 2.5 of timing advance around the -1 to +1 Hg range which seems like a lot to me. I just can't get it to sound smooth under load around the -0.5Hg to +1.0Hg. Frustrating to say the least.

But as the motor ping is setting down I'm getting another rattle sound that I think is my cat, so it's becoming harder to hear the motor ping. Wish I had a separate ping sensor but those are too much $$$.