Use oem spark plugs!!!

Hesk11dog

New member
well to keep a long story short, did a simple tune up a couple months after I acquired my 97 T4R 4X4 awhile ago. I did the usual for an older vehicle since my previous was a 93 toyo pickup with 251,000 miles. I bought NGK single ground plugs (can't remember the part number) for the 4runner prior to pulling the old ones (which were originals at 135,000 miles) and prior to being a member on here. I have been chasing a miss-fire/studder at high rpm's for the last 3 months. I pulled the plugs and noticed discoloration after 10,000 miles probably from being fired twice as much and overheating. Not knowing how critical having the correct part was, i used the correct #BKR5EKB11 NGK plug this weekend and i cant believe the difference. Increased throttle response, +1.5 MPG measured from two tanks, and MORE POWER:guitar3:. I learned my lesson the hard way to use OEM parts. I can't stop driving it now!
 
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well to keep a long story short, did a simple tune up a couple months after I acquired my 97 T4R 4X4 awhile ago. I did the usual for an older vehicle since my previous was a 93 toyo pickup with 251,000 miles. I bought NGK single ground plugs (can't remember the part number) for the 4runner prior to pulling the old ones (which were originals at 135,000 miles) and prior to being a member on here. I have been chasing a miss-fire/studder at high rpm's for the last 3 months. I pulled the plugs and noticed discoloration after 10,000 miles probably from being fired twice as much and overheating. Not knowing how critical having the correct part was, i used the correct #BKR5EKB11 NGK plug this weekend and i cant believe the difference. Increased throttle response, +1.5 MPG measured from two tanks, and MORE POWER:guitar3:. I learned my lesson the hard way to use OEM parts. I can't stop driving it now!

I think the common advice around here is to avoid single-ground copper or single-ground platinum plugs.

When I bought mine, the first thing I did (as with any new-to-me car I purchase) was to change the oil and filters and replace the plugs. The plugs I pulled were single-electrode Autolites. The owner was complaining of decreased gas mileage, which was why he wanted to sell the car. Turns out, if he'd spent the extra, literally, dollar per plug to get decent dual-ground platinum plugs he likely would have been fine.

I replaced them with NGK Iridium plugs. The waste-spark system effectively cuts service life in half for any plugs you put in. Any decent dual-ground platinum or iridium plug should serve you well.

And, congrats on the purchase.
 
I think the common advice around here is to avoid single-ground copper or single-ground platinum plugs.

When I bought mine, the first thing I did (as with any new-to-me car I purchase) was to change the oil and filters and replace the plugs. The plugs I pulled were single-electrode Autolites. The owner was complaining of decreased gas mileage, which was why he wanted to sell the car. Turns out, if he'd spent the extra, literally, dollar per plug to get decent dual-ground platinum plugs he likely would have been fine.

I replaced them with NGK Iridium plugs. The waste-spark system effectively cuts service life in half for any plugs you put in. Any decent dual-ground platinum or iridium plug should serve you well.

And, congrats on the purchase.

I got mine last year and was at school so I couldnt make too many changes to it. was home over winter and changed the plugs, wires, fuel and air filters, degreased engine, replaced a couple vacuum hoses and started on the frame rust. ran as good as when i bought it but started having that miss. with these new plugs, it is way better than what i though good originally was. My pickup had a 2.4 22RE engine. This V6 kicks butt now.
 
I don't understand why single ground makes the truck run like crap. I mean, I get why they wouldn't last as long, but when the plug is brand new and still working properly why is that a problem? It's a very simple thing, it's job is to produce a spark when current is applied. So are brand new single ground plugs actually failing to produce spark, and if so why?

And there are no dual ground Iridium plugs AFAIK, yet people are using those with success.

:confused:
 
My guess (which is all it is here, though I do understand flame travel speed, combustion chamber design and so forth) is that due to the design of the engine (probably the combustion chamber) it takes 2 spark 'paths' to ignite enough of the fuel so that all of it burns completely. If it doesn't all burn it takes more of it to make a given amount of power, thus poor mileage and less performance.
 
I don't think you get two sparks. Electricity travels the path of least resistance, it only sparks to one of the grounds. As that ground wears a bit, slightly increasing gap, the spark will tend to go to the other ground. Effectively doubling the life of the spark plug. Which I assume is the reason for using them in a waste spark engine, since they wear spark plugs twice as fast.

The only other thing I can think of is that resistance might be different between dual and single ground plugs, and the entire ignition system is designed around that. Seems unlikely that the difference, if there is one, would be enough to cause a problem. Unless maybe you didn't change wires as well and they aren't working 100% either. If the resistance of the entire circuit was significantly higher than spec that would definitely cause a problem.
 
Yeah this has been covered a lot. In case you all haven't noticed, there's a sticker on some engines saying to use dual electrode plugs, as well as in the owner's manual, and covered several times in the factory service manual.
 
I've worked on a lot of smaller engines like snowmobiles and lawn mowers and if your getting spark then you are golden. Not that simple with these engines, or so it seems. It could have something to do with the extra spark during one of the other strokes (intake, compression, power, exhaust) that the CPU is planning on happening and if a single ground plug is firing on the same prong repeatedly, it just doesnt get the job done.
 
I agree with this unless you are running boost.

Alot of people run the Denso IK22's which are single ground. Those work fine but they are expensive and from my experience, they don't last very long.

I have switched to the NGK BKR7E plugs which are less than $3 per plug and they seem to be lasting as long as the IK22's.
 
I don't understand why single ground makes the truck run like crap. I mean, I get why they wouldn't last as long, but when the plug is brand new and still working properly why is that a problem? It's a very simple thing, it's job is to produce a spark when current is applied. So are brand new single ground plugs actually failing to produce spark, and if so why?

And there are no dual ground Iridium plugs AFAIK, yet people are using those with success.

:confused:

I'm sure somebody with an EE can offer a more eloquent response, but I'll take a shot at it.

A spark plug firing twice as often will wear down more than twice as fast. That's because erosion will occur faster the hotter the elements are, and they'll stay hotter longer due to the 2x firing cycle. So a copper plug rated for 25,000 miles in a waste spark system may start to run poorly after 8-10,000 miles, rather than 12,500.

This is, incidentally, why copper and, to a lesser extent, platinum plugs need to be gapped, while iridium do not. You're supposed to gap copper such that there is sufficient heat generated by the resistance between the electrode and ground to ignite the gas in the cylinder over the lifespan of the plug, even as it wears down. This is why different gaps are specified -- depending on the vehicle's compression ratio and a few other factors, a copper plug that will ignite poorly in one vehicle may do fine in another. Iridium and platinum are designed to wear much more slowly, making gapping less critical for them.

Then, there's the matter of the actual surface of the plugs. Copper can pit more readily, and will also experience smaller pits of erosion on its surface. This will result in the plug itself experience a small but non-negligible amount of internal resistance before it even generates a spark.

Finally, there's the matter of QA. Every manufacturer specifies tolerances. Platinum and iridium plugs are more expensive, thus generating higher margins; it's in the manufacturer's interest to ensure they don't get returned for warranty or other problems.

People that spend less than a buck a plug, however, would generally fall into a, ahem, more cost-conscious demographic that probably would not be able to notice the poorer performance of said plug in their typical application. So, if you buy 100 copper plugs and 100 platinum plugs, I can virtually guarantee you that there will be one or two more out-of-spec plugs in the copper lot than there will be in the platinum lot.
 

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