V6 engine replacement vs head gasket repair ???

[zguy1]

Looks like you are moving along, good to see. Otherwise I have little to add as I do not know anything about valve adjustment on these motors. Is it a disk that gets replaced if a different size is needed?

It's a lifter that gets replaced. First you measure the actual clearance, then you measure the lifter itself, plug those values into a formula to get the ideal lifter. Match that value to one of the 35 lifters that Toyota sells.

 

[MikeinNH67]

It's a lifter that gets replaced. First you measure the actual clearance, then you measure the lifter itself, plug those values into a formula to get the ideal lifter. Match that value to one of the 35 lifters that Toyota sells.

Cool. I thought maybe it was like a motorcycle I worked on that had shims that seated into the lifter buckets.

 

[zguy1]

Did anyone change their front crankshaft seal when replacing the head gaskets or resealing the front timing cover?

It's not part of the valve grind kit. Mine wasn't leaking so I suppose I can reuse it. I am planning to order a new oil dipstick seal, that seemed to be pretty loose when I removed it.

 

[MikeinNH67]

Did anyone change their front crankshaft seal when replacing the head gaskets or resealing the front timing cover?

It's not part of the valve grind kit. Mine wasn't leaking so I suppose I can reuse it. I am planning to order a new oil dipstick seal, that seemed to be pretty loose when I removed it.

Seeing you're in that deep, it's a cheap part that's easy to replace plus you are disturbing the fitment by taking the timing cover off. The plus side is it can be done without removing too much later if you go that route. I had to replace mine because my serpentine belt shredded and ruined the seal.

 

[steelevo]

I haven't really been on the forums in a while but thought I'd share some advice for anyone wanting to do this in the future.

I am very mechanically inclined and love wrenching on my own cars. This job is just tedious and time-consuming, especially with the motor still in the car. I would see what the machine shop would charge to disassemble/clean the motor, resurface the head and block, and reassemble it with new gaskets and timing chain components. You would source all of the OEM gaskets and timing components for the machine shop. You'd be surprised that it isn't much more of a cost over resurfacing. Turnaround is pretty fast also.

The most difficult part of the project would be removing all of the external components before taking the motor to the machine shop. They just want a block and heads; no manifolds, wiring, hoses, etc. Just make sure to remove the gaskets that you will need from the kit before dropping it off at the machine shop.

 

[zguy1]

Seeing you're in that deep, it's a cheap part that's easy to replace plus you are disturbing the fitment by taking the timing cover off. The plus side is it can be done without removing too much later if you go that route. I had to replace mine because my serpentine belt shredded and ruined the seal.

I will order one to have on hand.

I just went through the valve grind kit and I am not sure if I know where all of the included o-rings and gaskets go. I'll put up some pictures, maybe you guys can chime in.

 

[zguy1]

I haven't really been on the forums in a while but thought I'd share some advice for anyone wanting to do this in the future.

I am very mechanically inclined and love wrenching on my own cars. This job is just tedious and time-consuming, especially with the motor still in the car. I would see what the machine shop would charge to disassemble/clean the motor, resurface the head and block, and reassemble it with new gaskets and timing chain components. You would source all of the OEM gaskets and timing components for the machine shop. You'd be surprised that it isn't much more of a cost over resurfacing. Turnaround is pretty fast also.

The most difficult part of the project would be removing all of the external components before taking the motor to the machine shop. They just want a block and heads; no manifolds, wiring, hoses, etc. Just make sure to remove the gaskets that you will need from the kit before dropping it off at the machine shop.

I'll bet it is crazy expensive. Especially machine shop labor. I paid over $200 to pressure test and remove 4 studs (for valve covers) from the top of the heads. The resurfacing was $165 which was reasonable. My quote from the machine shop for a valve job was $700 plus and I don't believe that would include parts that would need to be replaced. If I wanted to adjust the valves that would be an additional cost. At that point, you might as well by 2 new heads from Toyota.

 

[zguy1]

Is there anyway to find out what specifically is in the valve grind kit? I can't seem to find detailed information regarding specifics of the contents aside from some generic diagrams.

I attached a few pictures of the parts that are in the kit. I did not include the head gaskets, valve cover gaskets, upper intake manifold gaskets or exhaust manifold gaskets. I tried to identify a few of the gaskets.

Any ideas about where to get more information for the kit and / or the seals listed below?

1) ?
2) Gaskets for coolant pipe union in the back of each head.
3) This is 1 of 2 included oil pump gaskets. Need to figure where each of them go.
4) ?
5) 2 of these. I believe these are for the heads. There is one big bolt from each head in the front. I will not be removing those bolts.
6) 4 of these. I believe these are for the heads. There are two bolts on either end of each head near the valves. I will not be removing those bolts.
7) Gasket for oil pan drain bolt ?
8) ?
9) 2 of these. I think these are for the front and back water outlet pipes.
10) Seal that goes in the front of the driver's side head.
11) ?
12) ?
13) ?
14) Fuel injector seals (lower - 6)
15) Fuel injector seals (upper - 6). All I need is 6 not sure what the extra one is for?
16) Front crankshaft seal (I think)
17) Oil fill cap gasket
18) Exhaust gaskets for connection between upper and lower cats (one for each side)

I also don't see the seals that go through the center bolts that hold the valve covers. I think there are o-rings or seals that are on the top of the valve covers were the center bolts go through.

 

[gaber6]

4. Thermostat?

I had leftover parts in my kit as well. I remember too many fuel injector orings I believe as well.

 

[djpope09]

#1 looks like the throttle body gasket (where the throttle body mounts up to the intake manifold. I just replaced mine a few months ago after cleaning the TB.
#4 I think gaber6 is right. I remember it being on the front of the engine and thermostat sounds right.
#7 Yes that's for your oil pan drain plug, the OEM ones are blue on at least one side.
#8 Does this maybe go on the water inlet assembly thing where the thermostat is? The FSM diagram shows the oring for the water pipe and then a second oring behind the "water inlet" where the Tstat is.
#9 I think you're right, those look like the water pipe orings
#11 and #12 look like they could be for the bottom of the oil and transmission dipstick tubes, I didn't remove those when I did this so I can't remember how big they were.
#16 does look like the front crankshaft seal, you should be able to tell by laying it on top of the one that is currently installed to see if they are the same size.
#17 must be the oil filler cap housing gasket, it goes between the oil fill cap tube thing and the valve cover. If you didn't take the oil filler cap housing off the valve cover you wouldn't have seen this.

I don't recall replacing the seals on the valve cover center bolts.

I also had a bunch of leftover orings and gaskets, I just kept them in case I needed them later.

If you have the FSM, look for the section called "Partial Engine Assy (1GR-FE)" and find the components pages, 14-26 through 14-33. You should be able to find all those gaskets and seals in the diagrams.

 

[djpope09]

I forgot to add, be carefull installing those water pipe orings. They have to stretch a bit to go over the pipe. I would lube them up with soapy water or grease so they don't tear.

 

[zguy1]

#1 looks like the throttle body gasket (where the throttle body mounts up to the intake manifold. I just replaced mine a few months ago after cleaning the TB.
#4 I think gaber6 is right. I remember it being on the front of the engine and thermostat sounds right.
#7 Yes that's for your oil pan drain plug, the OEM ones are blue on at least one side.
#8 Does this maybe go on the water inlet assembly thing where the thermostat is? The FSM diagram shows the oring for the water pipe and then a second oring behind the "water inlet" where the Tstat is.
#9 I think you're right, those look like the water pipe orings
#11 and #12 look like they could be for the bottom of the oil and transmission dipstick tubes, I didn't remove those when I did this so I can't remember how big they were.
#16 does look like the front crankshaft seal, you should be able to tell by laying it on top of the one that is currently installed to see if they are the same size.
#17 must be the oil filler cap housing gasket, it goes between the oil fill cap tube thing and the valve cover. If you didn't take the oil filler cap housing off the valve cover you wouldn't have seen this.

I don't recall replacing the seals on the valve cover center bolts.

I also had a bunch of leftover orings and gaskets, I just kept them in case I needed them later.

If you have the FSM, look for the section called "Partial Engine Assy (1GR-FE)" and find the components pages, 14-26 through 14-33. You should be able to find all those gaskets and seals in the diagrams.

Thanks for the response. This really helps. It's good to know that I am not the only one who struggled to identify some of these parts and also to know that others did not use all of them as well. That "Partial Engine Assy (1GR-FE)" section is very helpful. A lot of great info there and it is easy to read and not cluttered up.

I did order a new seal for the oil dipstick tube so I may just end up with an extra one. I have a second parts order that I placed last week which contains the valve lifter that I need plus some new exhaust manifold and valve cover studs.

 

[zguy1]

I forgot to add in my last post that I had to go out of town for a few weeks so the repair has been on hold. I am hoping to start it back up late next week. A couple of things I have been thinking about since stopping.

1) I need to check the short wiring harness that connects the knock sensors to the back of the motor. I was foolish and unbolted the the water pipe that runs across the intake valley where the sensors are located. I did this in order to help remove the rear water joint from the o-ring. When you do this, it puts a lot of pressure on the harness.

In hindsight, all you need to do is to spray some WD-40 into the front and rear joint to help separate them. Anyway, I will have to test the integrity of the connections at the end of the harness with a multimeter since this part is not currently available from Toyota and is on a nationwide backorder at the moment.


2) Regarding installing the timing cover with the oil pan installed. I believe I watched every related video on YouTube but no one specifically mentions about how to install the FIPG (seal packing) between the bottom of the timing cover and the top of the oil pan. I haven't tried to reinstall the cover yet, but I assume it is has to slide on.

My concern is that if you install the FIPG on the top of the oil pan and then slide the cover over it, doesn't the cover push the FIPG over the oil seal which sits on top of the oil pan?

This seems like you would need to put the FIPG on the bottom of the timing cover in front of the oil seal to avoid this from happening.


3) Maybe this is related to item #2 above, I will be changing the front crankshaft seal, should this be done before or after I install the timing cover? It seems like installing the seal before installing the cover would be easier, but I am not sure if it makes it harder to slide the timing cover since the seal would be new.


I appreciate the feedback as usual.

 

[gaber6]

Ha. I was going to bring up the FPIG then this was your latest question.

Take out the 2 studs at the bottom that use nuts and the timing cover will have way more room so you don't have to slide it over the FIPG.

Another note for startup is to remove the fuel relay just so you can have it crank a few times to make sure nothing is wonky. I probably rolled mine over by hand 10 times first double checking then the relay trick. 1st starts on rebuilds are scary.

 

[zguy1]

Ha. I was going to bring up the FPIG then this was your latest question.

Take out the 2 studs at the bottom that use nuts and the timing cover will have way more room so you don't have to slide it over the FIPG.

Another note for startup is to remove the fuel relay just so you can have it crank a few times to make sure nothing is wonky. I probably rolled mine over by hand 10 times first double checking then the relay trick. 1st starts on rebuilds are scary.

I will try to remove those. I assume they should be easy to remove with the correct e-torx socket considering they are not exposed to any outside elements. Can I assume this method is only possible with the crankshaft seal removed?

I was / am concerned about start-up too, but I figure I would ask about this later. I assume this method will prime the engine with oil as well? If so, is there a way to know that oil has made it through the engine prior actually attempting to starting it?

 

[MikeinNH67]

#3- Unless I'm mixing the oil seal up with the one I did on a Ford, the crank pulley is what the seal rides on not the crank itself. Easier to do with the cover off in my opinion.

You can see where it rides in the first picture in this thread.
Don't ignore your belt....

 

[gaber6]

I didn't concern myself with oil pressure. I'm assuming you have assembly lube or oil on your camshafts and lifters. Other than that, a few seconds without the relay seems to me like it would be enough to determine any noises then bingo bango vroom..

As far as the crankshaft seal, I'd say replace it while you are there. I can't recall if I reinstalled a new one first, but it would make sense to have it in there to center the cover more precisely over the crank.

 

[zguy1]

I didn't concern myself with oil pressure. I'm assuming you have assembly lube or oil on your camshafts and lifters. Other than that, a few seconds without the relay seems to me like it would be enough to determine any noises then bingo bango vroom..

As far as the crankshaft seal, I'd say replace it while you are there. I can't recall if I reinstalled a new one first, but it would make sense to have it in there to center the cover more precisely over the crank.

I honestly did not expect to do anything more that what you suggested. I do have some assembly lube and plan to use it when installing the cams.

I would like to install the seal first, but I am not sure if removing the lower studs will put undue pressure on the seal when tilting it in as opposed to sliding it on.

 

[freeflight]

Nice record of your work. Following

 

[zguy1]

#3- Unless I'm mixing the oil seal up with the one I did on a Ford, the crank pulley is what the seal rides on not the crank itself. Easier to do with the cover off in my opinion.

You can see where it rides in the first picture in this thread.
Don't ignore your belt....

I just realized that I missed this post yesterday. I looked at the picture you referenced. I think you are right. This would explain why I was able to pry the timing cover from the top during disassembly. There is no way that the crankshaft seal could be oil tight and also allow a considerable amount play when removing the timing cover.

I’ll know once I get back and take a second look. But again, what you’re saying and with the picture shows seems to make sense. If that’s truly the case, then I will be installing the new seal on the timing cover before I install it.